Cultural appropriation

A large portion of the Native population died off from disease. Horrible, yes, but not the intent of the conquerers. They did kill many of them on purpose and enslaved many, that is a fact, but you also have to understand that Native populations have long battled amongst themselves before European colonizations. They have killed each other and battled for land. The only difference that sets them apart from Europeans was that Europeans had better technology and could actually win those wars. Every evil in history has been observed in every part of the world.

Secondly, it doesn't matter if there wasn't an effort to wipe all Greeks. People were forced to leave the country, die, or convert to Islam under a major government. Again, there was a systematic effort to remove ethnic minorities from a country even by the means of genocide. What exactly are you trying to say and what makes it different from the topic of Natives?

The news in North Dakota, though I agree with the movement against the pipeline, doesn't exactly seem like it's necessarily a racial issue. Unless I see a reason to believe it has to do with race.

 

On the other site I was speaking of with this same discussion topic, a recent comment posted was "fuck white people who wear kimonos and bindis" and the majority of users there agreed with it (this comment was not coming from a Japanese or Indian person). I suppose my issue would then be: do we say the same thing to Japanese or Indian people who wear business suits or wedding dresses? Why is it always unidirectional?

 

politically correct crap. let people wear what they want.

 

Oh, I see: so because Greeks and other Europeans fought one another for thousands of years, atrocities like the Ottoman Genocide should have been perfectly justified...

It matters because native Americans were forced into tiny reservations, and even those are being threatened. They're fighting a war over survival, and no one blinks an eye.

 

That is not what I said at all.

Yes, they were. That's how history went. What do you suppose we do about it?

 

It's stupid. Why would I as a german feel the need to be insulted by some black or asian guy who wears a Thor/Loki costume? People need to chill the hell out.

 

What do we do about it? Oh... how about not symbolically dressing up in their skins and dancing on their graves at the very least?

 

I could tell you but you probably wouldn't like the answer

 

^This^

 

Well jeez I wonder why

 

It's tragic and it's horrible, in my own opinion the Native American genocide is one of the very worst things that has happened in history, but realistically, there is nothing we can do to change it. Even if literally every non-Native American left the US, it wouldn't change what happened. Kind of like the Holocaust - you could seek out every neo-Nazi, every descendent of Nazis, everyone with the same surname as a German soldier in WWII, and have them all executed, but it wouldn't change anything. Not only that, but you'd also be killing thousands of people, most of them innocent.

What I find stupid is how people nowadays want to punish others (in this case, some non-white people want to punish white people) because of shit white ancestors did decades, even centuries ago. I've seen white people get guilt-tripped by non-white people into apologising for their skin colour and it's like, for fucks' sake. Regressive politics, right there.

I got off topic, but I've already said what I think about cultural appropriation, soooo...

 

From talk of what silly things people wear or do to their bodies to genocides, slavery and stuffs.
That sureeee escalates.

 

I think a problem here is that this "cultural appropriation" model only goes one way. Reverse this: Japan and a few other countries celebrate Christmas despite being non-Christian. Now, I don't think there are many people who's take issue with that but there are other examples.

Many youth cultures ( some of them in Japan) wear crosses as a fashion item. Now this is something that at least a fair share of people don't like but no one would ever call it cultural appropriation or fight actively against it.

So religious symbols deserve respect but Christian symbols don't because Christianity has a history full of oppressing others? I think that demanding respect for cultures should either go both ways or be erased in this form altogether.
Kinda voting for the last one because freedom of expression and stuff.

 

A friend posted this on Facebook recently, and I thought it would be useful to share on this thread:

 

I believe for the most part, people just use parts of cultures they like. But, this shouldn't be done in a way that mocks or harms the original culture. Should there be a law for this? No. Just follow your own personal morals. There are many diverse and interesting cultures, and some dying cultures that could use some help. Culture is something to be appreciated and explored. So have fun with it.

 

I've been avoiding this thread, hoping it would die and slip into obscurity. Alas it doesn't seem to be the case.

When it comes to cultural appropriation I think it's a case by case thing. I've heard some say, by definition culture appropriation is a negative term. I'm not sure where I stand on that but I do feel it's better to say cultural appreciation. Anything that is racially offensive is obviously a no. Or anything culturally sacred being abused or desecrated. I'm of Native decent but I think I'm a little more opinion minded on what is offensive or not. Those cheap Halloween costumes people dress up in are stupid and offensive. However I find when people get tattoos of feathers and dreamcatchers that it can very beautiful.

Here's the thing if people really wanted to help the Native/Indigenous population of America it would be easy. The first and most simple way is to not engage in racism and stereotyping. I've heard from people who wear those horrible costumes that they wore them because they love Native people and their "culture". They had no intention of being offensive. But here's the thing, it doesn't matter what your intent is, if you're being rude...you're being rude. Second if people understood that we are a group of people that are still very much living. Many people are under the impression Native people are completely extinct. Like some tragic fairytale. Ether that or they think we're all like Pocahontas(Disney version).

Another option is for the people who say they love Native "culture" is to actually go and learn about the cultures. Now I know there are individuals and certain tribes that are not so open to outsiders but some are. Lastly, and this is mostly aimed at government and police officials, is to treat Natives like actually people with rights. (I suppose this is a problem for everyone in this country, sadly) You can also start by supporting the petition and protest against the ND pipeline. The whole situation is illegal but since nobody knows or cares enough to notice, it's happening. The atrocities of what's going on over there make me angry and physically sick to my stomach.


Btw @Skaros while it is true that Native tribes had disagreements that ended in fighting and warring. It was never like the near genocide that occurred after settlers arrived. To compare the two is absurd.

 

@ gravechild/ pretty in punk

I think the main point Skaros was trying to make was actually that most natives died from the diseases the Europeans brought with them involuntarily. So the majority of deaths wasn't actually intentional even if they was caused by the settlers.

---------- Post added 7th Nov 2016 at 12:18 PM ----------

I believe that posts like this are important because it shows that not all black people talking about these topics are going the "ancestor-blaming-route" that others have used to make white people in the present responsible for everything done by a white person ever.


The wishes made are however hard to make a reality. In itself the system as a principle isn't working against black people as they technically do have the same rights. What is causing the lower chances and still ongoing discrimination is how people think and that is a much harder thing to change than the law.
Calling awareness to these issues is therefore important because it makes people realize that there are indeed issues and that they can work for change. This kind of simply asking for awareness is often swept under the "SJW" or "reverse racism" rug which is in my opinion a disservice to the freedom of speech as it blocks out every discussion.

Now, I don't live in America, so my judgment of the situation is definitely not the best, but from how I see it claims of "cultural appropriation" aren't helping the matter. It just makes black people seem more severed and different. Some people could also be angry because they'd be "forbidden" from wearing/doing certain things which isn't helping either.
What is wrong are for example scenarios in which a white girl is allowed to or even complimented for wearing braids/dreadlocks, while a black woman who actually has reason to wear them is told that she should straighten her hair. The question is just: If the white woman was forbidden from wearing that hairstyle would that actually help the black woman?
I don't think so because this way she could at least say:"She is allowed to wear that so I should have the right to do the same."
She obviously shouldn't be forced to justify herself that way but it could still help her win her case, if that makes any sense.

 

always when i hear something about cultural appropriation it seems to me to be a very US-American thing... here in europe noone gives a f**
im from munich. every year i see people from all aroung the world wear bavarian traditional costumes in embarrasingly stupid and ugly and not traditional ways. and ... i dont f*ing care. they have their fun three weeks a year and it does not touch any of my culture, my identity and my personal space.

actually... people decide to be offended. its not like something comes up your way and you HAVE to be offended. you just could chill, maybe even laugh at it.. (nothing more ridiculous than drunk australians in cheap tourist-lederhosn... sorry)
to seperate people by saying: "you are this race/skin colour, you are not allowed to wear that!" is RACIST!
dreads are happening to hair. that. is. happening. to. hair! its not race, its not even our SPECIES!! for fucks sake, it happens to long haired dogs, if you dont comb them!!
whining about that is beyond ridiculous.

 

Yeah, I'm of Irish and Celtic descent and Celtic symbols are everywhere, all the time. I have an American friend who kind of appropriates Irish culture and I don't really care, aside from being made slightly uncomfortable by said friend.

Except cultural appropriation apparently doesn't count if the culture is white. Which I get, because non-white cultures have been pushed under the bus by white cultures for centuries. But the Irish had a pretty shit time of it too - not that that makes us any less white, but you KNOW Irish stereotyping and shit (drinks called "Irish Car Bomb"? Really?) would be a much bigger deal if we weren't white.

 

(Just going to add that cultural appropriation of non-white races, particularly black people and Native Americans, is a lot worse and way more distasteful than white-white appropriation, especially within America. To kill much of one race and enslave much of another, and then act like nothing ever happened and take credit for their culture(s) is, to put it lightly, a shitty thing to do. Why are Native American Halloween costumes still a thing. Why are there still football teams in the US where Native Americans are mascots? Why do people accept these things and then try to say that racism doesn't exist anymore?)