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Cultural appropriation

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by LaEsmeralda, Oct 16, 2016.

  1. LaEsmeralda

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    Cultural appropriation is the use of elements of one culture by members of a different culture. That's the definition I took off Wikipedia. Typically it refers to the culture of minority groups being used by majority cultures for whatever purpose, but usually its for artistic or entertainment purposes. Fashion, music etc.

    I'd like to start a discussion on this to see where people stand on the idea. Is cultural appropriation wrong?

    My opinion is that cultural appropriation is inevitable in our society and shouldn't be considered as dismissal of minority culture. City life is more and more common as people emigrate and immigrate to where they can find jobs and education. We have hundreds of different nationalities all living in close proximity to each other in cities all over Western Europe and North America. Individual cultures do not live as independent of each other as they did maybe fifty or a hundred years ago.

    I think culture by definition is always evolving. If that is the case, should culture now start emulating the fact that our world is becoming more of a mix of different peoples, races, religions and heritages?

    I agree that in the past, many white artists exploited minority culture to make money. We saw that with Elvis Presley becoming the styled King of Rock and Roll, despite it originating from African American musical influences. But can that be compared with a white man wearing dreadlocks? Or a white girl wearing an Native head-dress to a music festival?

    Where does this sort of thinking stop? Should we stop St Patrick's Day celebrations because it originated in Ireland?

    Can cultural appropriation be considered flattery?

    Does trying to prevent cultural appropriation become a form of creative censorship?

    I am still developing my opinion on this. :slight_smile: I am a white woman living in Ireland so have no experience of racism or discrimination based on my ethnic heritage.
     
  2. Winter Maiden

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    I think that people complaining about "cultural appropriation" are being ridiculous and need to find actual problems to focus on. You cannot tell another person what to do with their own damn hair and you cannot tell them what they cannot wear.
     
  3. JonSomebody

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    This has become a very heavy discussion among people I know especially in regards of music. For example, Bruno Mars, the song "Uptown Funk"consists primarily of samples of R&B hit songs from 80's and he even taken it further with his new song "24K". Then there's Justin Timberlake and Robin Thicke. Majority of their songs are taken from sampling or interpretation major black R&B artists and to a lot of white audience ...to them..this is like a new sound. Also, the fact of the matter is that these groups/singers who songs are being sampled by these artist had hits with these songs primarily from the African American community and urban radio station formats. Yet...when the white artists samples these songs..they become major mainstream hits which means they have pop music crossover where as the original artists did not have that. This is where this become a divided discussion topic. I've heard many black musicians who have voice out about this topic because they feel that when these white musicians samples their music...it kind of like a sweet and sour issue because these white artists are really cashing in off of their music much more than they did when it was actually released and the mass audience are embracing their songs as something fresh and new when it really isn't. Personally, for me because I am a huge music collector..when I hear these songs that are out now with old school music samples...they actually take me down memory lane to where I can remember what I was doing and where I was when the original recording was released. However, I can recall some white friends citing Bruno Mars as a funk genius when he and Mark Ronson released "Uptown Funk" and I had to inform them where the music actually came from that Bruno and Mark sampled for that particular song which they were really surprised about this information because they had assumed that these two artists had originated that sound.
     
  4. Sealgirl19

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    I think of cultural appropriation the same way I think about art. Some things from other culture are neat, cool, interesting, and people would like to imitate them or at least try to make the idea their own. I generally have no issue with that if they give credit to the culture they got the style from. Then there's the other issue of people taking things from the original culture and it's more acceptable for them rather than the people from the original culture. i.e. When white people or people from other cultures ( other than black) wear locs they are admired showed as unique and artistic. However when a black person wear dreads they are referred to as thugs and have a harder time finding jobs than other people because they are wearing a style that is not only natural to their hair type but something that is part of their African roots. Cultural Appropiation is a tricky subject because people are naturally defensive when they are called out for not giving recognition to the culture they receive inspiration from and others just don't want to be called a racist.
     
  5. LaEsmeralda

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    Could you maybe argue JonSomebody that the popularity of Uptown Funk in the 2010s vs. the unpopularity of their 80s influences is a sign of changing attitudes? Thirty years is a long time in regards to race relations and if you take into account the love of retro stuff nowadays... I'm amazed your friends thought the sound originated in the present day because it really gives off that 80s vibe.

    I think Uptown Funk would've been just as popular if the artists had been African American. Nobody knows Mark Ronson's face off the top of their head and Bruno Mars is a mixed-race Latino from Brooklyn. It's hardly Britney Spears and Iggy Azalea.

    Sealgirl I have to admit I think dreadlocks look terrible on anybody :eek: If they are well managed and cleaned regularly then fine, but the majority of people who have them just look like they have a fungal infection on their head. I actually think the perception of dreadlocks is biased in regards to gender too. White men in particular with dreadlocks are generally seen as dirty hippies. Women not so much, but I imagine women are more likely to take of their dreadlocks than men. Based on my own experience of people with dreads anyway.
     
    #5 LaEsmeralda, Oct 16, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
  6. Sealgirl19

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    It's your choice to not like them but I find it kinda inappropriate to say that something that are a part of someone's culture "Fungal Infection". Everyone has their preferences and style taste. There are some men I know who take care of their LOCS more than women. I hate the term dreadlocks because that was a term used to insult the style. My thing is people just need to respect what other people wear and one person who wear something shouldn't be treated a certain way because they are wearing something that is a part of their culture yet someone who is not of that culture can be praise for wearing or doing something that's specific to a culture other than their own.
     
  7. LaEsmeralda

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    My opinion isn't based on a specific culture wearing them, just on what they look like on any person when they're not maintained well. And it doesn't look good, it looks gross. I don't think that's inappropriate to make that observation. That's not slamming something 'in someone's culture' because we can establish that lots of different cultures wear dreads, from African Americans to Buddhists to Native Americans to the aforementioned hippy culture.

    It's fine and dandy saying we should respect what people wear, but if people chose to wear something - say, dreadlocks, and not look after them properly. Well, that's their prerogative. Most people put a high value on personal hygiene and if you have dirty looking hair, that's something you should expect to be judged by.

    To clarify again, I'm not talking dreads in general. Just dirty, poorly managed dreads. Which is the vast majority of what I have seen.
     
  8. JonSomebody

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    I appreciate your response...but I have to say that you are incorrect with your analogy. A lot of white people that I know are not that familiar with the R&B 80's soul groups/singers and when I had mentioned how Bruno Mars had sampled these songs and then played the originals ....they were stunned to say the least and that's okay with me because it just let me know that they were not that influential with R&B music as opposed to Pop music and that is the reason I know that if those song was released by an African American artist today...I'm sorry..it would not have been as huge as it was with mainstream..

    However, it would have been a huge hit with African Americans. There are a lot of songs out now that are huge hits on Urban radio that if you're white and not into all genres of music...you are not familiar with them. This I know first hand and I know songs that they have mentioned to me because I love all genres of music and have a lot of genres in my music library which by the way surprises a lot of people as well. Now..that I do not understand but it is what it is. Like I said about "Uptown Funk" ...it contains samples of old school R&B from the 80's and I've heard a lot of African Americans and African American celebrities who were familiar with the songs that were sampled in Bruno Mars song because like I said..they were huge hits on Urban radio when the originals were recorded.

    Again...like I've mentioned about Bruno Mars new song...African Americans are familiar with the songs he sampled for that record where as many White people are not and think its something fresh. I've witnessed this reaction last weekend. I just chalk it up to them not being all that familiar with R&B music.
     
  9. Skaros

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    It's a bullshit argument. Appropriating culture is just a trivial complaint that isn't really a big problem. White people wearing dreads? So what? Do those same people have any objections to people using nun and priest costumers for Halloween?

    Sharing cultures is a good thing. We learn from eachother and learn to appreciate eachother. Racism and xenophobia ends when we stop labeling ourselves and begin to appreciate what we all have.
     
  10. Sealgirl19

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    If it were that simple to share culture. Then why does racism still exist? The world would be fine if people stop pretending that people don't get treated a certain way because of their culture and if someone else of a different culture wear something they are praised. Why are certain cultures demonized for something that is natural to them but if someone of a different race does it, it's beautiful, intriguing, breaking boundaries.

    I'm not saying white people can't wear dreads or whatever they want. I just don't want people to pretend that people of a certain race don't get bashed or treated a certain way because they wear something that is natural to their culture.

    Bringing up this argument is BS because every time it's brought up everyone takes it as an attack, they get defensive, and they feel like someone is coming. Try looking at things from a different point of view before you begin to get upset. This is supposed to be something that is open minded but everyone is looking at it one way. My rant is over because someone going to think I'm complaining when I'm all I'm saying it's unfair for someone to get praised for something that another person gets bashed for.
     
  11. Winter Maiden

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    Thank you!
     
  12. Skaros

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    Sure, racism exists. And if someone bashes someone because of their culture then that someone is an asshole.

    Okay, I won't call it BS, but what does it change? Some of these same people go out and harass others because of something they deem to be even mildly offense (in this case, what they call cultural appropriation).
     
  13. gravechild

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    All I'm going to say is that no one has the right to tell others what they should/should not be offended by (even if they find it ridiculous), and privileged groups, especially, don't have the right to tell minorities so.
     
  14. Sealgirl19

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    I don't agree with the people who bash the people on what they choose to wear. I'm not saying those people are wrong. My thing is if someone is wrong or does something that's offensive educate them don't belittle them. My thing is finding a point of acknowledging the issue without debate. I'm all for sharing culture but we need to treat everyone the same.
     
  15. Solid Snake

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    I think we need to keep "appropriating" culture. Ideas shouldn't be restricted to whatever country they originated from. Contrary to popular belief, "original" ideas don't come from nothing. They usually take influence from other already existing ideas. When you limit that scope down to your own culture only, then that will only slow down social progress.

    Without "cultural appropriation", we wouldn't be able to enjoy non-native foods such as pasta, Chinese/Thai Food, Mexican food, etc. I don't see how an arbitrary rule stating that "Tacos are only for Mexicans, spaghetti is only for Italians, and burgers are only for Americans." is progressive. Oh right, segregation is considered progressive now.
    Fiction would also be severely limited, because creators wouldn't be allowed to take elements from some other source they found interesting. Avatar: The Last Airbender would probably just be a generic high fantasy without the Asian influences that made it's lore interesting and memorable. Metal Gear Solid (yeah, I'm biased) wouldn't exist. If it was made by Americans, it would probably just be a generic uninspired action game where you defeat the terrorists and save the America. What made it stand out was how weird it was, having anime-like cyborg ninjas with a bunch of 80s action movie influences, in an Orwellian setting. We also wouldn't have things like Baccano, Silent Hill, Miyazaki films, several Disney films, etc.

    If people are worried about not getting credit for whatever has been shared, then why not just tell people where the idea originally came from?
     
    #15 Solid Snake, Oct 16, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
  16. ExilusAdapter

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    I am black and Latino and I have no problem with "cultural appropriation". I think the fact that the world is more connected than ever in history allowing us all to share the beautiful things within/about us all is great. It is a non issue and also to many of my peers.

    I have no right to tell non blacks to not wear dreds any more than I have the right to tell blacks not to straighten their hair/wear blue contacts or blonde weaves. Its all nonsense. Celebrating appreciating other cultures has become a bad thing? What is going on?

    I think we all need to step back and realize that some people just want something to complain about. I like to listen to what is considered "white people music" by my peers. Should I not listen to white artists based on their race? I swear we are fast approaching a true to life 1984 situation. Soon none of us will be able to express ourselves except how we are told to and that is double plus bad in my opinion.

    We live in a culture of the perpetually offended. Out of one side of the mouth we hear 'be yourself' and out of the other we hear only be yourself in a way WE want you to be.

    Hairstyles and clothing harms no one. It has no affect on my happiness or quality of life. So many fought and even died for unity but it seems like these days all people want is more separation.
     
  17. Flowey

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    Ah yes, cultural appropriation, yada yada.
    People have the rights to be offended, I agree. It's your feelings, do whatever.
    But people don't have the rights not to be offended. Nothing is too sacred that it can't be imitated, mocked or whatever. If my choices of clothes or hairstyles offend you then it's your problems *shrugs
     
  18. loveislove01

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    So cultural appropriation is when a majority group takes something from a minority that was once made fun of, and they are praised for it.
    Is that it?
    For me, the problem doesn't lie in the fact that these white people are using things and being inspired by other cultures.
    The problem is the racism, the fact that the other cultures didn't gain the popularity or the credit for it.
    I feel like other cultures can be very inspiring, and i don't see what's wrong in using their clothing, or their music to inspire you. That's not where the problem lies- the problem lies in the racism and I don't think forbidding people of the majority using things from the minority is the way to fix that.
     
  19. Opheliac

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    The problem with cultural appropriation, the way I see it, is when it contributes to erasure of minorities, trivialising and cheapening their identities to gimmicks. There's a difference between true culture sharing or even assimilation, and appropriation. Appropriation is part of a larger system of marginalising minorities.

    I think it's important to remember that 1. people in positions of privilege also don't have the right to decide for minorities what is offensive and what is not, and 2. members of minority groups don't speak for their entire group.

    I would never tell someone they can't wear or do something which belongs to my culture, but if someone tells you you're being inconsiderate or insensitive, I think it's just common decency to try to listen to them and understand why they feel the way they do.
     
    #19 Opheliac, Oct 17, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2016
  20. JonSomebody

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    :eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:thumbsup::thumbsup: