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Crimes of Grindelwald discussion thread

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Technology' started by BothWaysSecret, Nov 21, 2018.

  1. Lgbtqpride

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    I love this movie!I just watch it.I love the fantasy magic theme movie.I like the love between Dumbledore and Grindelwald too.I like the scene where they show the youth Dumbledore and Grindelwald doing the bloodpact and a magic key appear.Im glad this movie have lgbt characters.
     
  2. PurpleDude

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    as a fan of pretty much all things Potter, I found this film much less enjoyable than the first one. Credence surviving the 1st film felt forced, so I was pretty much disappointed from the start. Queenie was my favorite part of the first part, so her defection was very displeasing on several levels. the entire tone of this one was so much darker that I mostly found myself wondering how soon it would end.

    now for the big one: Dumbledore isn't gay, at least not to me. before you all stone me, I'll explain. Rowling blurting out in some interview doesn't suddenly make it so, not even from his creator. if she had revealed it the books, I wouldn't have even blinked, but she did not do so. so I am not accepting that little nugget as canon.
     
  3. Chierro

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    I've always found this interesting about some people regarding canonicity. It's her world and her characters, literally what she says about them is true whether it was in the books or not. She can do whatever she wants with her characters. Her "blurting something out in an interview" does make it so when its regarding her world and/or characters (barring obvious joking, of course). And this isn't really targeted at you, I've actually seen this plenty. Here's my biggest example:

    If J.K. was doing an interview and revealed that Professor Sprout's patronus is a badger, no one would blink an eye, they'd say "Cool, that makes sense! Relates to the earth and she's the head of house for Hufflepuff." It would immediately be accepted as canon, her wiki page would be updated, etc. And there is precedence for stuff like this. Information released on Pottermore and through interviews is considered canon by probably 90% of fans because it is information that J.K. is revealing about her own world.​

    Now, she reveals that she always considered Dumbledore a gay man and the canonicity of Dumbledore being gay is all in a tizzy because that fact was never revealed in the books. Disregarding the fact that there would have been literally no reason for this fact to be revealed in books told from Harry's perspective. Why would a 100+ year old headmaster feel it necessary to disclose his sexuality to one of his students? And even if it had been revealed in the books it would have simply been something minor, and I can guarantee people would still complain about it...that it wasn't more present.​

    And this doesn't even mention the whole shitshow that is people contesting the canonicity of Cursed Child. Again, this isn't attacking you, it's just baffling to me.
     
    #23 Chierro, Dec 22, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
  4. PurpleDude

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    he wouldn't. a more likely reveal would have been the book that Rita Skeeter wrote, or even a story in the Prophet, since it was more like the enquirer than anything else at the time. she can say/change whatever she likes now that the books are done, that takes no courage as it would have within the series. so, my mind remains unchanged.
     
  5. Chierro

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    So you would have wanted Dumbledore’s reveal to be in the two least reputable sources known for spreading false information and lies...? My point remains that Dumbledore’s sexuality (as a 100+ year old man) had no place in the story.

    Dumbledore’s gay dude.
     
  6. Destin

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    Finally saw this movie, I liked it. Have to agree with PurpleDude that a lot of it felt forced and made up as they went along though. I wish they gave Nicholas Flamel a bigger part in the movie too, he was described as a super wise and useful resource but was pretty much ignored by everybody and did basically nothing except help save France for 10 seconds at the end.

    As far as Dumbledore being gay, I don't have a problem with it. Still feels pretty forced but since they never mentioned him being married in the books, I guess it's plausible. Then again I can't think of a single Hogwarts staff member that's married...which is kind of weird.
     
    #26 Destin, Dec 23, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
  7. Lgbtqpride

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    Dumbledore is in love with Grindelwald. How can that not be gay? It was obvious in the FB movie.
     
  8. BothWaysSecret

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    McGonagall was married (she's a widow by the time the series starts, as her husband died when Harry was only a few years old; so she was married in the first chapter, when they drop Harry off at the Dursleys). Trelawney is divorced. Lupin gets married (even though it happens after he quits his job at Hogwarts). Later, when Neville becomes a professor, he is married. Perhaps being unmarried is a requirement, as most of the teachers live at Hogwarts during the term, meaning that if they were married, they wouldn't get to see their spouse and/or children much during the year, until school let out.

    She has revealed several bits of information after the books were released that everyone accepted, why should this be any different? She mentions in an interview that she would have revealed the information a lot sooner if she knew that people would have been happy about it. She even made sure the filmmakers knew of his sexuality. There was a story years ago that said that she was in a script meeting and in the Half-blood Prince script, one of the writers had Dumbledore mention a girl he once knew that he fancied. Rowling took the script, crossed out that line and wrote "Dumbldeore is gay" on it and passed it back to the screeenwriters. It talks more about it here.
     
  9. Chierro

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    To build off of this, Neville marries Hannah Abbott and they start running The Leaky Cauldron at some point so its actually not like they would see each other often anyways. I think when McGonagall was married she lived with her husband in a cottage near/in Hogsmeade so that would be an easy commute.

    The way I kind of see it is that Heads of House (McGonagall, Snape, Flitwick, Sprout) would have to stick around all the time or most of the time, but the other professors could have more leeway. I also feel like on weekends it could be something like 3-4 professors would have to stick around but the others could go home via Floo Network as long as they're back by Monday.

    Of course, Dumbledore would leave for weeks or months at a time with little to no explanation, so who knows.
    I think this is the big thing to consider as well. She (and her publisher and editor) had to make smart decisions for the series. Now, as a gay man who grew up reading these books, retrospectively I would have liked a gay character but...I was also 10(?) when I read Deathly Hallows. I wasn't aware I was gay so I really could have cared less. The series was intended for a younger audience and it was published in the late 90s to mid 2000s, so acceptance of LGBT characters was iffy.

    From a writer standpoint, when you're creating your characters, you always know more than what is on the page. You create backstories that may not make it into the actual writing, but it helps shape the character and how you write them. J.K. does this for her characters. I remember seeing the actress for Tina Goldstein say that while they were filming CoG, she could ask J.K. questions about Tina and she would have an answer without having to think because she already knew the character. Here's an interview that sort of helps support this:
     
  10. PurpleDude

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    no. whatever her reasons might have been for not putting it in print, that's how it stands, even if Dumbledore french kisses Grindewald before he dies.
     
  11. Chierro

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    I'm enjoying the fact that you keep ignoring the parts of my posts where I challenge your "no." Like, you're just picking out pieces. I, and others, have pointed out logistical reasons and support and you're refusing to even consider them.

    Dumbledore being gay is canon.
     
  12. OGS

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    This just seems sort of silly to me. The movie (and it's predecessor) aren't based on books. There's certainly crossover material, but 98% of what happens in the movies isn't from the books Rejecting it on those grounds just sort of seems like saying I don't accept the plot of the Goblet of Fire because it didn't take place in the Sorcerer's Stone. She's still involved. She's still telling the story.
     
  13. PurpleDude

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    now who's being silly, without the books the movies wouldn't exist. I'll also note that Dumbledore's sexuality shouldn't even be a debate as it has no bearing on Fantastic Beast or the Crimes of Grindelwald, if it did, it would have been stated categorically, not mentioned in passing.
     
  14. PurpleDude

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    because I haven't seen anything useful posted that has changed my mind, so why bother replying point by point.
     
  15. BothWaysSecret

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    I feel like Hagrid and Madame Maxime would have been in the same situation as Neville and Hannah had they stayed together. She might not have quit her job as headmistress of Beauxbatons if they had married, meaning she would have been in France for most of the year, and Hagrid in Scotland (which is where Hogwarts is located). Which is a shame because I liked Hagrid and Maxime together, but they would have had a complicated relationship had it continued.
     
  16. Lgbtqpride

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    Why are you so upset that Dumbledore is gay?
     
  17. Destin

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    So.. to bring up another view on this... am I the only one that sees Dumbledore being gay as just a bit too stereotypical and maybe a tiny bit offensive?

    The one gay character in the entire series... is the headmaster of a school, where he's around little boys all day, and forms an extremely deep friendship/bond with one little boy in particular (Harry) ...watching him grow up his entire life and having an obsession with his life.

    It gives me a kind of gay pedophile grooming a little boy they're attracted to type of vibe when I think about it like that.
     
  18. Chierro

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    Nah, not really. I mean, to quote Snape he does raise Harry "like a pig for slaughter" but that's because he knows Harry's going to have to die. The "obsession" pretty much has to do with knowing that Harry's the Chosen One and is the way for Voldemort to be finished.

    There's also the fact that after Grindelwald, Dumbledore didn't love again. He loved Grindelwald and after that he just...kept to himself. So, I don't really get that vibe at all from him.
     
  19. PurpleDude

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    he isn't, that's not the bothersome part, if one was actually reading and comprehending my objection to the implication that he is.
     
  20. Lgbtqpride

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    Dumbledore is in love with Grindelwald, not Harry.
    He had fall in love with Grindelwald since he was a teenager.