How do you handle the feelings of guilt that come with the codependency? It's just incredibly hard to deal with. I feel quilty for even spending more money on myself than on my family members. With opposite I don't feel quilty at all. Even my supportive aunt told me things I was thinking. She told me to move out, even if it would mean renting an 1 room apartment and that she can help me too if needed. It's not good being in this house, what I agree with, but I do need to get more financially stable first.
Ran.....You have spent a lot of time thinking about and taking care of others. There is nothing wrong with thinking about and taking care of yourself. You deserve to have a life of your own, if not now then soon! .....David
In some respects you have created a goal for yourself, which might help with envisioning what living away from family members while also still being there for them, supporting them, could look like. I know you have been walking the distance for them, trying to help, taking care of them. But this of course also takes a toll on you. Caregivers at times do face burnout while trying to do what they need or want to do. I don't think you need to feel guilty for spending money on yourself. You might feel guilty but you are also creating a different pattern, perhaps a healthier boundary: you are placing yourself first and are saying that you have needs too and need to fulfill them. Creating some boundaries, and trying to communicate, voicing your needs in different ways, might allow you not to feel as guilty as you feel at the moment. Voicing your needs and doing things that show them, will help you to continue building confidence in placing yourself first when you feel you need to do so.
Thank you. I know I do. I definetly have envisioned it all. I know I can still help them out even if I live a bit further away and I've envision how that would look like, but I feel almost as if betraying them in some way. I know they have their own fears too, if I'm not there to help anymore. I do not want to be the cause of their situation for getting worse just because I move out and not getting them the better living conditions as well. Moving out would tremmendously help to better my quality of life. Definetly. I can only handle the bare minimum because of it. I do get told that I don't do enough and that makes me feel not appreciated, but I can't do more, even if they wish so. I can't have more on my plate. I've snapped at them so many times. I can't help feeling guilty. I rationalize everything I buy for myself, even the things that are basic neccesities. I feel anxiety coming on if I have spent more on myself than on family members. It did though made me feel a bit better, because this is a boundary I'm trying to create here, but even creating healthy boundaries is hard, but I will try my best there. I cannot communicate it all to them as they wouldn't like the idea me moving out, so I'm keeping it as a secret for now. Having my own place would give me a little bit of security too.
It's certainly difficult, Ran and I suppose sometimes it can feel like you are making two steps forward and one step back. Acknowledging and knowing what causes you anxiety, slowly building boundaries, is already half ways there to build a path that will work for you. You are a strong person; no questions about that. I am sure as you continue to work on where you would like to be, have yourself in the centre of things as it were, you will get there. And with every step you take, your strength and courage increases.
Sometimes I wish that I would have realized this whole codependency thing way sooner and I think if things would have turned out differently and I feel like the answer to this is yes, that my path would have been different as now anxiety adds to a lot of things as it makes my fears and worries worse.
Feelings. i'm convinced they have a mind of their own. i guess to some degree that is true, because they originate from a different part of the brain than our reasoning does. i suspect you have the codependency thing mostly figured out rationally speaking, you strike me as a very rational person. But our feelings don't always align with reason. i think they can be changed though: neuroplasticity. Maybe make a list of co dependencies you have, an actual list, and then put them in some sort of order of what needs to change the most to the least? Then try changing those things one at a time. i think feelings can be convinced (so to speak) and learn to feel differently in time, and i think a part of that process is to acknowledge them, feel them, but put them on notice that you want them to change because they are not reasonable or healthy. Sort of talk back to them. Instead of fighting them, find something to replace them with. We do this with pain management. Back to neuroplasticity, it's a process of building new neural pathways instead of feeding the ones that are harmful or not wanted. Speculating here, for whatever it might be worth?
Hey I’m not sure I have any words of wisdom but I did want to say I’m sorry you are going through so much. Also don’t devalue yourself, it’s important to do what’s best for you.
I never thought of giving a name to these codependency's. I didn't even realize that there are different kinds. If I'd give them a name, then one would be the emotional codepency. I do rely on them for even a little bit of that warmth, even if I don't feel like they appreciate me. Second I guess would be the saviour codependency, since I want to better their life too. I do fear rejection and critisism as well and have low self esteem. I have some abandonment issues, because of not receiving everything I needed when I was a young child. I still am dealing with this part. I guess I feel some guilt too, but that part I haven't fully analyzed. I guess I also still feel safe and secure at home, since I do not have to pay rent. There is some security. I also rely on them for financial support since my own income is unstable and not very large. Only when I get a stable job, this fear might go away and I will take a deciding step, despite all the other worries. I think this is the biggest thing I need to deal with. A lot of my reasons I feel are more so exuses I make in order not having to make hard and scary decisions.
It's okay. I appreciate it. I will try not to devalue myself. It's just hard to see that value, when there are people in real life, who are doing it.
of course. These things are always easier to advise on from the outside and not easy to deal with when you are the person in the middle of them.
I think @tallslenderguy has made some good points and I like the idea of naming it as a way to start addressing the codependency. I wonder, have you had a chance to speak with your counselor about your fears and your past experiences?
I like that idea too, since I never really analyzed it deeper like that. Not yet. I will see my psychiatrist in November and I want to talk about available therapy options regarding it all. I need something, but I don't know exactly how to approach it. It's much easier to put it in writing here, rather than saying it all out loud. I haven't been in therapy for quite a while, because of my anxiety. There wasn't any free appointment times to the psychiatrist I wanted online and anxiety made it hard to call, but now I do have an appointment luckily. My previous sessions mostly revolved around anxiety, family life and gender stuff, but now as I don't need to talk about gender stuff anymore I can focus on it more. I'm a little bit scared to hear what they say now that I tell them that I am not transgender as they've been super supportive about it all.
I’m sure that if you have found peace with that area of life they will be pleased. If you find it easier to write stuff out before you go and then read from what you have written whilst your there, especially for a first session back that would be ok.
Yeah, previously I have shown therapists my posts. Most here do speak English as well, so that definetly makes it easier.
i know, right? i often find myself using big summary or catch all phrases, and find it helps me to break those down into their individual components. When i think of the word "co-dependent," it means two or more people who depend on each other. it seems to me that is not always a bad thing? But it has a negative connotation, and we tend to use or look at it as a bad thing. So to me, identifying what those dependencies are gives some clarity, and maybe even control. One of the bigger components i see when we depend on each other is it often involves a quid-pro-quo approach, and attitude. The approach of quid-pro-quo is an exchange: "i'll do this for you if you will do this for me ." But we don't always identify what we are doing as "quid-pro-quo," we just seem to fall into doing it. And i think that's where (and why?) the "attitude" comes in. The "attitude" is one of expectation, emotion: "hey, i did this for you, you should do _________ for me." I.e., we "expect" something in return, but since we are not identifying the thing we exchange, those expectations can be unclear and exchange get messy, there is failed expectation and disappointment. When i look at relationship, it seems to me that one of the bigger reasons relationships fail, or limp along broken, is because of this undefined quid-pro-quo thing we seem to fall into vs openly doing with communication and mutual understanding. i think a lot of what we end up doing relationship wise becomes unsustainable. i think it's most prominent in family relationship. The old saying applies: "you can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family." Though it's not uncommon in the LGBQT+ communities to find people creating new families when they experience untenable situations with their birth families. Also, it's a common social right of passage for a child to 'leave home' when they reach a certain point in their life and be/become "independent." That probably has been the course things when we find living together just because we were physically born into a social unit is not always reasonable (laughing here, this all sounds so clinical). i don't think quid-pro-quo works very well for our more intimate relationships because i think our needs and desires are often mismatched. I.e., we may find our self doing something for someone that we do not need or want to do, just so we can get what we need/want. And i think that often goes both ways, the other person is doing something for us that they do not need or want, just so they can get their need/want in a quid-pro-quo exchange, so the method of getting our need/want met doesn't really work well. i think the opportunity of purposefully chosen relationship vs just depending on the ones we were born into, is we can look for and build relationship based on symbiosis instead of quid-pro-quo. i think symbiosis is what is often trying to happen in our intimate relationships, but we don't seek symbiosis out purposefully or consciously. We even call it "falling in love," as though "love" is a mud puddle we slip and "fall" into (or a cliff we fall over lol). We don't learn relationship in school, and we often seem to have a haphazard approach to it, basing it on the emotions that seem to magically happen when we encounter someone who has some corresponding zig to our zag, yin to our yang. Which i think can result in a "co-dependence" of a different (healthy) sort.
I will think about it properly. I think this is a very good explanation. I think the biggest reason I want to move out is that they are very overprotective and it suffocates me too and there are a bit of friction there, since they need something from me, but I also need something from them together with the emotional side, but I'm starting to realize that I won't get what I wish for. It's all a very rough, unanalyzed thought. The overprotective side is something I have told to my aunt about and why she's reccomending me to move out. I also felt very emotional, when she started talking about it. Even now recalling the conversation makes me emotional. A bit of an vent. My dad wanted to yell at me for something over the phone, but I just simply ended the phone call. I refuse to tolerate yelling, like I'm a kid or something.