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LGBT News Certain LGBT members oppose the idea of putting brown and black stripes for LGBT racial minorities

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by HeFleBiGen, Aug 7, 2018.

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  1. HeFleBiGen

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  2. Winter Maiden

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    In my opinion, these colors have no business being on the rainbow flag. Sure they may be oppressed in their own way but race does not belong with gender identity or sexual orientation.
     
  3. Joe2001

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    I agree.
     
  4. CuriousLad

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    Agree with @Winter Maiden . At least in theory, there's no correlation between the LGBT flag and race. More importantly, race is just an artificial social construct used to divide while the flag unites inherent sexualities and gender identities. Yes, racial minorities do feel marginalised in general, and even more so in the LGBT community. As a brown bi man, I can attest to that but symbolism and representation on flags can only do so much. And what about the East and South-East Asians? What colour do we give them? I've always found the association of colour with race pretty redundant too; people in the north and north-east of my country are as white as Caucasians but are still labelled as brown folk. So there's no need to perpetuate ignorant racial divides. The flag isn't just limited to the Americas and Europe and we certainly don't need colour-based representation in Asia and Africa. It'll be counterproductive and just divide people even further.
     
  5. KyleD

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    I really do not think that it matters…. however in my experience as a black guy from the Caribbean I will say that I have felt alienated from my own race and well as the LGBT community on many occasions. I have faced unfair generalizations and countless prejudices from both groups and I really do not feel like I belong in either. I am really grateful for Empty Closets though as it offers a safe space for everyone no matter who you are.
     
    #5 KyleD, Aug 7, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  6. Aussie792

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    If it is a sectional flag (as in, black and brown people within LGBT communities using the flag to emphasise racial issues specific to sexuality) then I think it can be a useful and valuable addition to symbolism within advocacy. Within wealthy majority-white countries it could help highlight things from racial exclusiveness in dating to a critique of the failure to turn the well-resourced Western LGBT advocacy machine to severe anti-gay human rights abuses in Subsaharan Africa, the Middle East and Central and South Asia.

    There are incredibly strong, very mainstream arguments to make about including racial and Global North-South dimensions to LGBT advocacy. Framed as such, as a supplementary flag that forms a symbolic part of a cohesive argument with tangible advocacy goals, I think it's a decent move.

    If it is a flag deisgned to replace the rainbow flag, then I am distinctly opposed for three reasons. Given the way modern identity politics is averse to allowing one group to speak on behalf of others, it'd be a pointless flag for white people to wave - you'd be waving a flag the message of which you'd have little social licence to explain. The other problem is it excludes ethnic groups, other than white people, who don't identify as black or brown. A third problem is that it shifts a globally recognisable symbol (the LGBT rainbow) to narrowly address specifically US racial politics in a way that I think undermines a universal approach I belive we're going to have to take towards proliferating LGBT rights.

    I think more to the point is how tired I am of LGBT people. Like, it's just so hard to keep up with how the inclusion of a colour on a flag is somehow more important than coming up with reasonable frameworks to expand LGBT rights and secure adequate funding, representatives and political capital. And every time this sort of thing becomes a shitshow, I worry we're frivolously spending more political capital than we have if we're to counteract disturbing international trends outside of the wealthy liberal democracies towards cracking down on homosexuality and transgender people.
     
    #6 Aussie792, Aug 7, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  7. KyleD

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    I agree with you Aussie792 however I think wealthy liberal democracies need to focus on their own issues especially the appeal of white nationalism among young, white gay cis men. We might share the same sexuality but many times we have completely different issues. Lesbians have different concerns from that of an older gay man from that of trans people.
     
  8. Nice Dave

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    The colours on the pride flag don't represent skin colour. The blue stripe does not represent blue skinned people.
     
  9. justin007

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    Agreed.
     
  10. BothWaysSecret

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    I'm from Philadelphia, and my city already did this with the gay pride flag a few years back. A lot of people weren't happy, but I don't know whether the flag was ever changed back or left the way it was.
     
  11. Destin

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    I don't like it. It over-complicates and dilutes the concept by adding too much onto it. Plus it would no longer be a rainbow flag since brown and black aren't part of the rainbow. Race has nothing at all to do with LGBT stuff so it wouldn't be logical to combine them into one symbol anyway. Leave the rainbow flag alone and go make a different flag for racial stuff instead of trying to just tack one onto the other. If they want it to be about minorities who are LGBT then they can make a new but associated flag, in the same way there's a different bisexual flag and a different transgender flag but both are associated with the rainbow one.
     
  12. BothWaysSecret

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    I agree completely
     
  13. Butterfly8

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    I think a rainbow is inclusive enough already. Being a racial minority isn't related to being LGBT.
     
  14. PotatoPotato

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    For me: I think movements against discrimination of different types are as important as eachother and shoud battle together on fronts, but it is important, to handle specific issues communities face to not start representing things outside of where we have to stand, defend and fight.
     
  15. DirectionNorth

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    Lol, agree.
    But seriously, I agree with most- this is about sexual orientation, not race. If they want to make a new flag for themselves for that purpose to represent them and LGBT, then fine, just like there are different flags for lesbians, bi's, trans, etc. But the rainbow should just represent LGBT+ of every kind as a whole, which is what I thought it already did. If it ain't broke.

    But I do understand where they're coming from, and they do face different things from everyone else, I'm not saying we all experience the same things and have the same backgrounds and experiences. I'm just saying, maybe make a different flag for that purpose, the way, like I said above, there are different subcategory flags.
     
  16. Kyrielles

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    Agree 100%. It's known as the gay pride flag for a reason, because that's what it was created to represent. And it was created by a gay man.
     
  17. Loves books

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    Agreed. Also they are dark colours and the bright colours of the rainbow flag have always said joy and positivity to me.
     
  18. smurf

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    I think my favorite thing about the conversation about this flag is this sentiment.

    Like, what do you think this flag is? They did just like you said. They created a new flag that included new colors to the already existing pride flag.

    Did they submit a formal proposal to the Gay Council to replace the original rainbow flag? They did say that no one else is allowed to fly the other flag? Are they banning the other rainbow flag? Nope, some cities and communities decided to raise this new flag in order to show solidarity with LGBT people of color. That is all that happened.

    I think it doesn't matter at the end of the day, but I find it incredible how white people get so annoyed at the idea that some communities around the United States prefer this flag over the other flag. Specially those people complaining are the people who don't volunteer at pride events, will never be in a position to decide which flag to fly, and for the most part won't join any type of LGBT activism that doesn't cater to just their needs.

    I think its fantastic that some communities are listening to the needs of people of color and saying "we hear you, we understand, we stand with you". And incredible how opposed you all are that some communities are trying to take care of everyone in the name of "purity" in branding.
     
  19. Destin

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    The problem with this, and the LGBT community in general honestly, is that it's too open-ended and vague. The whole 'taking care of everyone' thing doesn't work in practice, the only way to accomplish things is one piece at a time not just shoving as much stuff as possible at people. There is absolutely nothing on Earth more important than branding and symbols for a community - that's what people associate with stability and strength, they see the same symbol over and over again and eventually get used to it and become more accepting of it. If you change the name, symbol, and purpose every year like the LGBT (or LGBTQ, or LGBTQ+, or LGBTQQIAAP+, see the ridiculousness of over-complicating stuff?) community seems obsessed with doing, it shows the opposite - the weakness and inability of the organization to make up it's own mind about what it wants, and why would anyone support an organization that can't even decide what it wants for itself.

    There are tons of racial related groups already like Black Lives Matter, if people are interested in that, then go join the groups that already exist for it and use their symbols instead of trying to hijack the LGBT community for a totally unrelated purpose. It's a rainbow flag, not a white power flag, there is no need to show solidarity for something that was never excluded to begin with.
     
  20. Linning

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    But (queer) people of color belong in the community AND believe it or not racism within the LGBT community can be and is often rampant. How often do we see profiles with "no Asians" or "no black people" on dating app? Racism DOES affect the LGBT community because queer people of colour are affected by it.

    If you get upset at problems affecting caucasian queer folks why wouldn't you be upset at problems affecting queer people of colour? LGBTQ+ activism is about denouncing the things that affect us and fighting for the rights of EVERYONE in the community and it DOES involve queer people of colour. You can't just fight for half the queer community (which you are suggesting by suggesting "we" focus on just sexuality when racial discrimination massively impacts members of our community).

    Nobody is hijacking the "rainbow flag" like smurf pointed out and nobody should have to join Black live matters "if they have an interest in 'that' "
    because fighting against all prejudices and all type of discrimination should be something everyone has an interest in and especially LGBTQ+ people.

    I find it shocking how many people within our community get angry at things who affect them (homophobia) but happily brush their hands of problems affecting a good chunk of our community (Racism) just because it doesn't personally affect them to the point of feeling "hijacked" when it's pointed out that people of colour exist in the community and also have their own set of battles. People of colour are actually much more prone to homophobia because they tend to come from countries with highly religious background and more conservative cultures where they could even risk death for their sexuality. Bringing some visibility to queer people of color is important because it sheds lights to the Challenges they face and might bring in a change in the future inside and outside our community which would benefit the community as a whole. So yes it's important.
     
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