General News Catalonia Independence

If the Catalonian people want independence then who is Spain to try and stop them? I get that it is illegal but based on how they have been treated over the years it is understandable why some in Catalonia would be hostile to Spain.

 

Last i checked the majority of Catalonians wanted Independence. And whats with all this "its not legal" garbage? when has any country declaring Independence ever been "legal" to the people they secede from?

 

1. The majority of Catalans did not vote in the independence referendum and the narrow secessionist majority in the regional parliament (prior to its dissolution) represented a minority of the popular vote.

2. The distinction between many cases of independence and this one is that there are no grounds for lawful secession under domestic or international law. Catalans are not a colonised or oppressed people with a right to break free from foreign rule. They are some of the richest people in Spain, well integrated into the national political and social structure, who from democratisation until now have had a considerable level of political autonomy.

3. The people of Catalonia are not all Catalan. Internal migration and self-identification, even taking into account much of it occurred under Franco's regime, mean that there are a large number of residents of Catalonia who speak Castilian as their primary language and identify as Spanish.

4. Catalan secession is a cause as myopic as Brexit - it is the belief that all or most of Catalonia's ills are the fault of the central Spanish state rather than factors beyond political control. Independence as a cure-all is misguided, self-defeating (look at the number of businesses which changed domicile this month) and hostile to multiculturalism in that it says only one Catalan identity is valid. And despite these harms and the opposition or non-participation of the majority of Catalonia's residents, the regional government was willing to push ahead with independence.

There are plenty of less radical, less divise responses Puigdemont could have pursued that answer questions of Catalonia's place in Spain - above all serious advocacy for a federal Spain.

5. None of this is to say that the actions of the central government have been adequate or that Catalonia's position within Spain should never change. Rajoy's suppression of the vote was poorly considered, as was the unconscionable authorisation of police violence. The triggering of Article 155 was only necessary because Madrid was too heavy-handed to arrange for domestic political negotiations on the constitutional structure of Spain. But that doesn't mean that Catalonia should automatically acquire independence and it certainly doesn't mean that any other states, within the EU or without, will recognise Catalonia as a valid nation state.

 

I'm fine with catalonian independence. If Gibraltar wants independent though fek off I will join the army to protect our soil

 

I support Catalonia. I hope this isn't a subtle threat of war on Spain's part.

 

I don't think the Spanish government has handled this well at all. The steadfast refusal of Madrid to talk and negotiate has done more harm than good and I don't think taking control and calling fresh elections will break the impasse. If anything, it will polarise support in favour of secession and could reignite dangerous separatist sentiment in the Basque region.

The referendum should have been allowed in Catalonia, in the same way as an independence referendum was allowed in Scotland. Yes, it's risky if you favour union, but you make the argument and put it to a binding public vote that settles the issue (something the SNP needs to realise in Scotland). Saying no to everything is generally a bad move in diplomacy.

 

Populist moves. It's just their crooked parties' way of trying to seize power. Catalans don't REALLY need to secede, it's just something that you've been fed with so much that you actually start thinking you need.