1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

casual sex?

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by skiff, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. Clay

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Scotland
    Basically you're attaching magical qualities to a normal thing. You're making sex seem mystical and otherworldly.

    It isn't. It's just a completely normal everyday thing.

    This line of thinking leads to attacking or hating people that have sex, merely because they're breaking the make-believe mystical qualities you've arbitrarily assigned to sex.

    This isn't even coming from someone whose had a lot of sexual partners. My number of partners is quite low. I'm just saying that you shouldn't make sex out to be something it's not, instead just remember it's a normal thing that people can engage in if they want to have some fun. There's no harm in that.
     
  2. OnTheHighway

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    3,895
    Likes Received:
    570
    Location:
    Florida
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Huh? I did not say that.
     
  3. OGS

    OGS
    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,654
    Likes Received:
    674
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I think biAnnika is right in that I think oftentimes people having this discussion, especially within the LBGT community, really are talking past each other and it really does come down to definitions. I say particularly within the LGBT community because I think a lot of straight people have perfectly consistent objections to casual sex where the definitions really are concrete, generally because they are derived from religious dogma. However, within the LGBT community I think we really do tend to talk past each other. HunGuy's definition is I think a great example of that. I suppose if you wanted to call it "a hole is just a hole" sex I'm on board. I think that's probably not very healthy--at least not over the long haul. But that's not what people call it, they call it casual sex--and the implication is that if you aren't plighting your troth then your mindset is pretty much "a hole is just a hole." And that's just not true.

    I've had this discussion a lot with people and I will generally say something like I said in this post:

    and what I generally get back is, well, that's not really casual sex. Really? Because while I could describe it the way I did, I could also describe those exact same encounters this way: "I slept with a bunch of guys that I had barely met with no intention to form any kind of lasting relationship that would extend beyond the encounter." I'm pretty sure you would then describe those same encounters as casual sex--you would just assume that nothing I described in the previous description happened (apparently a lot of people on here would also assume that we were using each other, being animalistic and dehumanizing). What I generally get back at this point is something along the lines of "well, you don't do it the way other people do it." Really? Because I did it the way everyone I did it with did it. I certainly wasn't alone. That would be a totally different discussion and I don't think anyone I've had this discussion with considered that wrong.

    The fact of the matter is that when I have had this discussion with people in the LGBT community (and of course you really only discuss these things with people who you disagree with) it has generally come down to people not so much objecting to casual sex per se but people, generally who have either not had casual sex or have had it badly, objecting to what they assume others are doing and feeling out there.

    When this is pointed out, generally the last refuge in the argument is to try to get me to at least admit that relationship sex is better than casual sex. I think people generally speaking think this would be an easy point to score off me as I've been happily committed to my partner for 17 years. But I actually won't concede this point--they both have pluses and minuses. I'm not in my relationship because being in a relationship is better than not being in a relationship--I'm in my relationship frankly because IMHO my relationship's awesome! And part of what freed it up to be so awesome is the fact that we didn't need each other to fill some hole in each other's lives. We didn't need a relationship so we would have someone to talk to, we didn't need a relationship so we'd have someone to go dancing with, we didn't need a relationship so we would have someone to go out to dinner with, we didn't even need a relationship so we would have someone to have sex with. We both had all those things. So we entered into a relationship not because we needed it or because it is some sort of generic better state, we entered into it because we both thought each other were awesome and thought what we had together was amazing. And while we didn't need it, we both wanted it--and we wanted it badly enough to wake up every morning for 17 years and do the work to make it work.
     
  4. OnTheHighway

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    3,895
    Likes Received:
    570
    Location:
    Florida
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Shouldn't casual sex just be defined in the eyes of the beholder? And whether one participates in it or not is each person individual decision? Just because I would rather be physically intimate with someone I love does not mean I should concern myself with others whom are happy with casual sex. To each their own.

    And if I was not in a relationship, my views might change as circumstances change.
     
  5. Black Raven

    Black Raven Guest

    Joined:
    May 6, 2014
    Messages:
    908
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Europe
    Gender:
    Male
    Thank you OGS, I really appreciate the effort you put into writing those rather long posts.

    I agree with most of what you have said so far - Especially with the last paragraph of your last post. I wish I could enrich this discussion with a long post of my own, but my mind is a quite occupied, and will only be free to focus on other things by tomorrow evening.

    Ah I digress... as usual.

    Your approach to -everything- regarding "casual sex" best reflects my own approach.
    Thank you for writing what you did. I agree. Well put.
     
    #105 Black Raven, Dec 16, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
  6. Fallingdown7

    Fallingdown7 Guest

    Well, think about it, how does relationship sex not feel the same way?

    I personally am only comfortable having sex with someone I'm committed to. But for me, sex is still casual. It's hard to explain but I'll try.

    Basically It's hard for me to trust anyone and I like to know that I can trust and feel something for them, that they share my beliefs before we have sex. But I don't like intimacy and emotions. I'll have sex with a girlfriend/wife only, yes, but I don't want her to get all emotional and sentimental. I don't care for kissing or eye contact during the deed, I don't care for being cuddled, I don't like to share emotion because I'm not an emotional person. Sex is supposed to feel fun; even if It's with someone I love I don't want there to be an overboard of emotions really. It should still feel really detached. So am I objectifying my partner? Am I using her as a 'sex object', even if she agrees that she enjoys the act?

    Sex is supposed to be fun. If I play a board game and my partner keeps kissing and cuddling me during every move, I'm going to be annoyed as hell. Am I objectifying my board game partner because I don't want to show affection during a round of game? Why is sex different? Why does it have to show emotion?

    Are you objectifying yourself when you masturbate? Should you stop masturbating because it doesn't come with 'affection and love and kisses?'

    Some people simply do NOT feel emotional or intimacy during sex, and trust me, it is VERY uncomfortable to be forced to feel that when it goes against our personality. It doesn't mean I don't care, it means there's a time and place that we can be emotional and sappy toward other things. Please, save your emotional crap for when our clothes are on.

    I'm not a romantic person. I only like sex with commitment because it does feel a bit more intimate to me and I'm afraid of the emotional consequences, but that doesn't mean I want to share emotions. I don't want intimacy and people trying to stare deep in my soul when I'm naked, I simply don't like it.

    Casual sex can be between friends of 10 years like I said. And it can come with emotions that aren't romantic. Relationship sex can come with no emotions at all.

    And forcing a person who only likes casual sex to have emotional sex objectifies that person too. They are being fetishized and turned into an object of affection when people know they aren't comfortable with emotions. You can objectify someone without it being sexual. Sad but true.

    Also....how does forcing someone to have relationship sex NOT count as rape and coercion? Being forced to endure emotions that make me feel uncomfortable would absolutely feel like non-consensual sex.

    Seriously people, stop trying to force people to have sex in ways they don't like and aren't comfortable with.
     
    #106 Fallingdown7, Dec 16, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2014
  7. greatwhale

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Messages:
    6,581
    Likes Received:
    408
    Location:
    Montreal
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    There is an aspect of relationships in the gay world that prevailed for a long time before relationships became more "normalized". The term "casual sex" does not capture what it was (and to a certain extent still is).

    The range of unconventional relationships was incredibly vast, with relations running the gamut from one-night stands, orgies, circuit dances, sex with mentors, sex with liars and with saints, sex between friends, ending, then recurring, breaking off and starting again...Was it all meaningless gratification? Sometimes. But often it wasn't; things happened in those intimate moments that meant something more, lessons were learned, unknown feelings were awakened, lives were changed, some for better, some for worse...

    And sometimes it was a misplaced yearning for meaning...If anything can come out of this discussion it is that if one yearns for meaning through sex, one is in for some rough disappointment.

    Sex should be special, it should be something done with care, imagination and consideration, does it mean that it has to be something lasting? No, it doesn't, but it can and sometimes it does lead to something more meaningful, which is an ideal most of us aspire to. In such circumstances, sex, on its own, is not the deciding factor.

    In the end, in the arms of my lover, I am still alone...I can only feel my own sensations, I can only experience my own thoughts. Yearning for that mystical union where I am not only myself remains just that: a yearning; I cannot ever know for certain what it is my lover is experiencing with me during an intimate moment. Whether for a night or for a lifetime, this will never change.

    Sex is a complicated matter, it drives behaviour in ways that surprise us, we seek it and sometimes there is an opportunity to engage in it, and many do. Mature and consenting adults engage in it with both eyes wide open, they know the risks and they are responsible about them. It is sex within clear boundaries, and it can be beautiful all on its own.
     
  8. Wildside

    Wildside Guest

     
  9. Fallingdown7

    Fallingdown7 Guest

     
  10. OnTheHighway

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    3,895
    Likes Received:
    570
    Location:
    Florida
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
     
  11. biAnnika

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Northeastern US
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I had just finished saying that the Google definition struck me as reducing to "you know it when you see it." You said it seemed straightforward to you. I was merely pointing out that "know it when you see it" and straightforward are far from mutually exclusive.

    But interesting that you should protest, and then go on to say:

    You were objecting to being called on something *before* you said it? :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    The difficulty I see with not defining this term is that we don't just behold it...we judge it...verbally. We have people on here expressing at least three different views of what constitutes casual sex. And some find their version deplorable and a contributor to rape culture...and say so...but this means that people whose definition of casual sex is perhaps a bit less objectionable get lumped in with these views. The whole reason to have language and to make fine distinctions is so we can understand one another better and explore truth. "Eye of the beholder" aka "know it when I see it" pseudo-definitions are destructive to language, because they blur meanings and make discussion and common meaning more difficult.

    Choirboy, you echo my own thoughts and concerns beautifully. I really like your bringing in the competing drives of procreation and stability. Thank you. Of course, this just raises the question (particularly in an LGBT forum) of what happens to this dynamic when one of those two drives (procreation) is irrelevant (e.g., with same-sex partners)...but your point, I think, is that we still have *drives* toward sex with multiple partners, deeply ingrained, because of an evolutionary impetus toward procreation. Makes a lot of sense to me...especially in terms of the tension between the two drives.

    Raven and HunGuy...thank you both for definitions. I must say, Raven's resonates with me more, as fitting "casual".

    HunGuy, I get why you object to your version of what casual sex means...and I get how that kind of thinking could lead to objectification. Just realize that that extreme is not what everyone else is talking about when *they* say "casual sex".

    Basically, the more I think about the Google definition of casual sex, the more I hear code for "any sex outside of an established monogamous relationship". But they aren't willing to come out and say that, because it would *sound* judgmental and outdated (and actually, fairly sexist, particularly since society condones casual sex in this sense in straight men). And as OGS so eloquently describes, not all sex outside of an established monogamous relationship is bad, cheap, or really even particularly casual.
     
  12. OnTheHighway

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    3,895
    Likes Received:
    570
    Location:
    Florida
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    No, all I did was paste a definition from Google where I clearly say it's from Google without making any representation. Your just looking to pick an argument......
     
  13. Wuggums47

    Wuggums47 Guest

    I do place a high value on sexuality for myself, and don't really develop those feelings for people I don't love, but that's me. I couldn't care less what other people do, and personally feel uncomfortable around those who try to impose their "morality" upon those who they deem sexually impure. As long as nobody is being harmed, in general I see little reason why we should tell someone they can't do something.
     
  14. biAnnika

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Northeastern US
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Oh, for Pete's sake, I never implied it came from anywhere other than Google. I could make the same claim about picking an argument, but whatever. My issue is with the definition, not with you.
     
  15. OnTheHighway

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    3,895
    Likes Received:
    570
    Location:
    Florida
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    :eusa_doh:
     
  16. Damien

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,246
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Australia.
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Sex most certainly can be a mystical experience - for some folks it's amazingly so -or it can be a very ordinary experience, and both are perfectly fine if engaged in by consenting adults.
     
  17. stocking

    stocking Guest

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,542
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Gender:
    Female
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Sex has different purposes ; Yes it's used to create life and also it is also meant to be enjoyed .
    As a person who prefers having sex with people , I'm in a relationship with , I see nothing wrong with causal sex .
    The only time I could see bad in causal sex is if the people involved didn't use protection , or one person knowingly had an std and did not tell the other .
    I don't get why people think it's wrong for two consenting adults to have causal sex , it's not a bad thing . It's part of nature even animals have sex for pleasure and sometimes yes causal sex .
    Maybe people who are against others having causal sex are too stuck in this morality way of thinking or what we've been taught as teens such as only have sex if you're in love with the person because if you don't something bad will happen , you'll regret it they will hurt you and all that stuff .
    I think this type of thinking is so ingrained in some of us that we get upset at others and think their doing a bad thing if they have causal sex .
    Comparing it to rape is a bit far because rape is not consensual .
    If you don't like causal sex for yourself that's fine but don't tell others what to do with their bodies . :dry:
     
  18. Fallingdown7

    Fallingdown7 Guest

    I have to say that people comparing people who enjoy casual sex to rape is going too far. The one friend I have that enjoys casual sex the most WAS a rape victim, so how dare anyone say she's as bad as her attacker was. Or that she's "objectifying" herself. Some people find casual sex to be VERY empowering and it lets them gain control of themselves and their sexuality.
     
  19. stocking

    stocking Guest

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,542
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Gender:
    Female
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    I see those comments the same as slut shaming .:dry: