Butch/Femme...and trying not to judge

Totally their with you! I’m trying online dating and people see my short hair and assume I’m butch. I would say I’m soft butch, so definitely no girly girl but think people are too quick to assume what I’m like or maybe I’m over reacting. I guess I sort of judge too but I at least read the profile properly but I think I’m not girly enough and they won’t be interested.

 

Hmmm...I’m wondering who you’re hanging around to be catching these vibes. Perhaps you live in an area that’s not very lgbtq-friendly?

Of course it sucks that people are judged solely on looks in a shallow relationship, or at first glance, but I think it’s impossible to get away from. It’s a biological response system, like...caveman brain and something that is only changeable through education and analysis. That’s why we’re considered “intelligent” (I use this loosely for some) beings. We’re still programmed a certain way, but have the ability to analyze beyond that. Not to get too deep or anything. Heh.

I can only speak from my own perspective, but I’ve met many-a-butchy or androgynous presenting woman that is pretty damn femme. More femme than me. And I’m pretty damn femme. Maybe before I realized I was queer, I’d look at a butch presenting woman as someone who’s trying to look “manly.” But that was ignorance, so you need to assume that anyone who thinks you’re trying to be a man is ignorant and doesn’t understand the spectrum of gender/presentation/masculinity.

I wouldn’t worry about this too much. It can be frustrating, but it doesn’t have anything to do with you. It’s just the way brains work...as of now. I think as we evolve, superficial profiling will, at least, die down. I mean, we’re seeing how dangerous it is, so...ya gotta hope.

And plenty of us femmes are real happy to be in the presence of butch/androgynous ladies

 

I really hate the gender roles other lesbians try to push on people. Someone could look butch, but be very submissive, overly sensitive, prefer to be the one to carry a child, etc. Same with the reverse: Femmes can be dominant, rough, and wear the pants. Lesbians are not in heterosexual relationships, so people need to stop assuming it's 100% one way or the other. It's not always so cut and dry.

 

What you wrote about the difference in esthetics vs. personality is a topic I think about often. The complexities and unique aspects of each person are why I don't care for labels much.
I understand why the labels are there, because people want to classify esthetic types like butch, femme, etc., but the mistake is judging a person based solely on esthetics.

I'm very femme, and some aspects of my personality are very strong or masculine. I'm attracted to the butch esthetic. I don't know why this is so..it's not a choice really. But I have a hunch that one of the things I find interesting about butch women is the courage to put their true selves out there. That's sheer courage! So bravo to you. ❤️

 

I have had mostly good experiences with the label Femme. I am not overly concerned with others perception of me, only of what I perceive I am. The bad experiences that I have had, have been only with the Lesbian community. So much so that to this day I refuse to identify as a lesbian, and use Queer exclusively. The label Femme can be Pan, Bi or Genderqueer. The label Butch can as well. In fact my partner is a Nonbinary/Transmasculine Butch.

I think a lot of confusion comes from people judging you on how you look, not how you identify. To me, Butch/Femme is not a label in the lesbian community, but a 3rd gender, not male but not female...outside of the binary. If someone were to ask me what my gender was I would say "Femme". You cannot determine who is what by looks. I have seen Butches with long hair and Femmes with short. That is a total line to say "you have long hair so you are Femme"......Also, depending on where you are at and your age, those terms can mean so many diffferent things than what most others think. It also is a total myth that all Femmes are little balls of fluffy bottoms, and all Butches are beer drinking, tops who are into sports....*shrugs* I am proud of being Femme, but I am not incapable, I clean out the gutters on the roof, do the yard work and change tires...just in my favorite NARS brand lipstick....lol

 

I kind of love that you say your gender is femme, because that’s the true definition of gender. It can be equated to one’s biological sex, but usually only in terms of societal definition of what those things mean within a culture — which varies.

 

That’s good that you force your way in. And so brave!

I’ve been in and around big town America. I used to work in NYC, which is obviously super progressive, but people are still stupid and assume things/say dumb sh*t. I recently moved South. First I was in SC for a bit and I felt freaked to be out. It was palpable. Now I’m further South in a conservative state but progressive area — you still hear dumb sh*t from people. No one knows I’m queer from just looking at me because I present very femme, so even that’s an assumption and free pass to constantly refer to me as being a wife to a man someday or using homophobic speech in front of me...there’s a ton of BS everywhere. Definitely just have to let a lot of stuff roll off your back, unfortunately.

 

I do not know how I would categorize myself? I guess I don’t need to either. I think you are very right you can’t make assumptions based on how you may categorize someone. I dress and keep myself practical, easy hair, minimal makeup, no flashy clothing or accessories. People have told me that I had a masculine flair to me but that my gf was more so ( which she hates being said about her, so I very rarely told her when someone would say that, it upset her so much). Her and I were both active sportswise, her more so. I was the more likely candidate to be hands on outdoors though, like tadpoling with my kiddos and not afraid to run through puddles. All in all it just balanced out. You could have probably labeled us both as soft butch but we were different in so many ways. So really, You have to get to know people and feel their energy.

Woodswoman? Are you implying by the first sentences where you list of what men do there, that you don’t like beer? Beer is wonderful! I’m so sad you don’t like beer !

 

This thread is awesome. When I began consciously questioning my orientation last year after falling in love with a woman, I was so interested in learning more about LGBTQ vocabulary and definitions around orientation, gender expression and gender identity. She did not like the idea of labelling and felt incredibly boxed in when having to label herself for other's sakes, but she would answer as identifying as pansexual for her orientation and her gender identity was female and her gender expression was fluid. For myself, I identity now as lesbian, female gender identity and female gender expression. We never talked about butch versus femme. When together people would assume I suppose she is soft-butch, I am femme based on our appearance, so based on our gender expression through clothing and hairstyles, But I agree that those labels make me uncomfortable as they seem to carry with them assumptions about roles and gender identity that are too limiting. She may gravitate towards the men section in the clothing department, but she also loves jewelry and nails. I have long hair and wear makeup and girls clothes, but I am becoming more and more uncomfortable wearing dresses and prefer tight pants, boots and a sweater. She is physically stronger than me but our emotional vulnerability is on par with each other. We are both very sensitive, nurturing, compassionate, gentle women in love.

 

Mainly with your chainsaw in hand hahaha

I think femme and femininity generally is better accepted and has more positive experiences because it is more familiar to the heteronormative society we live in.

Who we are on the outside doesn't always reflect who we are on the inside.

 

There are as many ways to be gay as there are ways to order your ice cream! It's not just two labels, there are so many of them and so many ways to identify. That is why no one should be telling or judging you on how you present. It is not better or worse to choose butch or femme as a label, just as it is not better or worse to be androgynous. It just IS. It is how YOU identify, and people need to just accept whatever you identify as and be good with it.(even if you don't do labels)