Bottom shame

It is interesting to me reading the comments from the different posters regarding their experiences and the attitudes around being a bottom or even about anal sex in general. I see a marked difference between those of us who are, relatively, newly accepting, or still working on accepting, our sexuality and what that means.

Nerdbrain, I grew up with the attitudes, provided by my social conditioning that being f&&ked was a demeaning thing. Just telling someone to "get f&&ked" is an insult. And, we use derogatory terms like "he's somebody's bitch" implying a submissive sexual act (bottoming). I know what this all meant and the message was clear.

So, how do we wear this proudly? Or, even come to terms with wearing it privately? It's a big deal for some of us that shouldn't be minimized.

 

I believe I know, at least to some extent how you feel. I had an on line friend who was part of a discussion group who showed up in my town and wanted to get together. Before we met, he asked if I was a top or bottom. First, I was taken aback by the question....I thought we were having a beer...but, I did respond that I was "neither" (I meant by this that I didn't do intercourse) His response was "your verse I'm a top this could work"

He is my age but gray (I'm pretty young looking for my age) and outweighs me by 50 pounds. I was repulsed by the idea that he would think I would "succomb" to him. This went deeper than his presumption. I get disgusted, still, thinking about being a bottom for an "older" man because I can't get past this feeling of being submissive.

I've had three male intimate friends. The closest in age is 17 years younger and the youngest 35 years younger. I have no problem being a bottom or top with these guys.

With each guy, though, the first time I bottomed, I pretty much, controlled the sex. It was not submissive at all. Later, I've been able to be submissive with them in either position.

Having same sex attractions (being gay or bisexual) is so much more than this sexual act. In fact I had no desire to ever have anal sex until one of my friends really wanted it. It was then that I discovered how much of an expression of intimacy it could be and it really wasn't a power trip or a way to just get off.

In your case, you seem to start at the other side. You want the anal sex and not the rest of being gay.

You also seem to somehow define yourself (or being gay in general) around this sexual act. I asked before if you have tried to date with the idea you would not have intercouse to see how that feels. Just holding a man and kissing him. Can you feel passion and desire for him?

 

Hey Nerdbrain. You seem like a really good dude. And you seem to have many of the same feelings as me about our attachment to our straight selves.

Forgive me if I’m overstepping my bounds here....but it sounds in your posts like you’re still wanting to come to some logical intellectual conclusion about.......life.

For us over thinkers, it seems that we need to try to go the opposite way and feel our way through things. Feel our way through acceptance. Baby steps but steps nonetheless.

 

It’s interesting to read back and see just a few months ago what I reflected and compare it to today. As my relationship with my boyfriend has progressed, so has our sexual intimacy. We have evolved where now we are both versatile and regularly and consistently switch positions. We don’t plan it, we just see where the mood takes us. We both retain our own preferences, but we enjoy the expanded nature of our intimacy when we don’t stick to our previously preferred roles. Based on our discussions, We both actually had some perception issues to overcome taking on one role over the other, but now have found a very comfortable middle ground that seems to work well. In fact, our sex does not always include anal activities, and my own definition of gay sex has expanded as a result, I used to feel gay sex had to always include anal, but now at get great satisfaction from other actitivies just the same. I am not even sure I can put a label on it at this point - Top, Bottom, Versatile or Sideways

 

Since you point it out, I wonder how age played a role in your inability to be submissive or bottom? I ask because I once had a similar perception (and maybe to a certain extent still do). Prior to meeting my current boyfriend, however, I had seemed to allow myself to become vulnerable even with guys older than me. And I found the same mixed results with older guys as I did with younger, some experiences were good others not so; hence I concluded where age once was a limiting factor it was no longer an impediment.

That said, I did need to become more confortable with my current boyfriend, whom is younger, before I was willing to make myself sexually vulnerable and bottom comfortably with him. There was remnants of shame holding me back from doing so with my boyfriend as I processed the role reversals we were evolving towards, despite my prior enjoyment of bottoming prior to our relationship.

Nothing ever seems to be a straight line.

 

Another factor may simply be reaching the bursting point where one can no longer deny whom they are. The self bargaining just no longer works and our true self explodes to the surface. There may not be any specific catalyst other than one’s own need for self actualization.

 

I haven't been intimate with a man even close to me in age so I don't know if I have gotten beyond my initial problem with the perception of being submissive.

TBH, I haven't met another guy my age, that is available, that interests me. I am really quite fit and enjoy activities like extreme skiing, rock climbing and kite surfing. I am only turned on by guys that do these things and I haven't met another gay or bi guy my age that does these activities at my level.

So, I end up with young guys. These sports all require an attitude that is sort of counter cultural. So, they aren't into behaving within a "norm"...even a "gay norm". I would guess that if I met my twin, I would have no problem with any form of intimacy.

I am just so sensitive, as Nerdbrain put it, of being less than a man. So, I need to be with men who see me as a stud...I know...this is f&&ked up. I'm a stud when I'm wearing skis.

This does not mean that I don't respect guys, my age, that don't do these things. I am just not attracted to them no matter how beautiful or built they are.

 

Consider getting a hall pass and check out one of the Gay Ski Weeks going on around the world! Lol

...I actually finally admitted to myself that I was gay when I was on a regular ski trip with a bunch of friends while watching the sunrise over the mountain peaks one early morning.

Last year I was surfing in Central America. Surfing is a very “masculine” sport as your probably aware. There was no lack of “masculine” surf dudes interested....

I was really surprised to find how my perceptions of masculinity and stereotypes collapsed after I accepted myself.

 

Yep. I've attended several gay ski weeks (just last weekend I went to one) and ended up skiing with the young guys. It's not that I cannot find gay guys that do the stuff I do. I have some friends who are extreme athletes that are gay. It's just that they are at least twenty years younger than I am!

There is a couple where one of the guys is my age and one is twenty years younger. I've done some fooling around with them after an intense canyoneering adventure when we were all turned on. But, I won't do intercourse casually like that.

So, I haven't "been" with men my age.

To be clear. This isn't how I feel about masculinity. It is about how I define my self worth...for better or worse. My wife is an intense skier and can kick most guys asses off the mountain and I do not find her masculine. But, it turns me on to have her (a great skier) appreciate my skills.

So, I guess this sounds rather shallow. But, if someone is gonna own my ass he better be able to turn those skis both ways. It is a sense that I have to be on equal footing with a man to accept being penetrated.

It's just how I feel that's all...not saying it's right.

 

So during my adventures over the past year, I met this girl who would alternately be dominated by a man, and then proceed to f$ck him. I also met a bi guy who had another women fu*k him.

Ever try that?

 

So. Nerdbrain. Maybe you need to be "taken" by some guy who is such a stud that no one could possibly measure up to him anyway? Worth a try! Maybe if he even thought no one was worthy to be with him and he chooses you?

Just joking around here. I do have a sense of how you feel and how difficult this is to get past.

(but, if he skis give him my number...if he isn't over 40)

 

There is no button to turn it off, but there is a dimmer to slowly reduce the power it has. Per another recent thread, it’s about making yourself vulnerable, and keep making yourself vulnerable. As you do, you build confidence and diminish the shame.

And even though Nickw says he was joking about getting with a guy to take you, Maybe an experience like that is worth a try?

 

Not sure its wrong either. I certainly gravitate towards younger guys. My last partner was 17 years younger than me and my current boyfriend is 20 years younger. In between those relationships I dated across the age spectrum and when there was sex I went with the flow whether top or bottom. I feel I have done tremeandous work building my self esteem, self respect, and confidence; yet here I am with my current boyfriend 20 years younger.

 

Your last paragraph is so key, I think.
In an age where so many men with same sex desires learn about roles, sexual behaviors and expectations from internet porn, in my opinion it is imperative to explore the non sexual feelings when you're with a man, to really understand your true orientation, before you make any life changing assertions to your existing social circle.
For me, it was all the NON sexual stuff that showed me who I really am, and what I really want my life to look like. Unfortunately, and I don't know how this could have been different given social pressures to be straight and procreate, it took over 20 years for me to come to terms with my true orientation.
I have two men over time in my life: one who ran away from us because he couldn't admit his homosexuality to himself; another who is gay and out, and I think we love each other (he's been important in my life since I was 14, I'm 42 now) but it could never work beyond an FWB context. In either case, it was the one on one closeness, comfort and company of each other that made me fall in love, the sex was just the very delicious icing on the cake.