1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Bottom shame

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by nerdbrain, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Since we are talking about shame and embarrassment regarding anal sex. I wanted to add a parallel issue.

    Someone above talked about how a larger guy can be more satisfying. My first lover was not large and was sorta shamed into being more of a bottom because of that even though he is versatile.

    I bottomed with him...my first...and he was incredible. Nailed my prostate. I know this is a lot of TMI. But, i think we need to be careful when we are new at this not to adopt some of the stereotyping out there.

    All guys can be great lovers!
     
    I'mStillStanding likes this.
  2. Lone Wolfe

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2018
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    Washington
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    I would tell him, thank you for sharing that. It's not what I'm looking for. I hope you find it somewhere else.

    It's far better to find out at this stage, than later when you are naked in the same room and he whips out a chain saw or drill.
     
    #62 Lone Wolfe, Jan 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
    Rade likes this.
  3. OGS

    OGS
    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,716
    Likes Received:
    728
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I always think all of this talk of tops and bottoms and the like as a bit mystifying. Partly because back in the stone age when I was dating and hooking up it seemed like everyone was versatile. But more importantly because even the hooking up wasn't really about that. Don't get me wrong I was hardly the virgin queen--I wasn't exactly the town bike but I got around. But it just seemed more human, less tab A fits into slot B. I mean we had a lot of sex, a lot of rather spectacular sex, but it sort of wasn't exactly the point. You'd see each other across a room (party, bar, gym) or down the way (beach, street, grocery store, whatever). You'd steal glances, talk to your friends about them. Eventually someone would get up the nerve to approach the other one. You'd chat. You'd have a drink/smoothie/cup of coffee. If you hit it off maybe you'd retire back to your place or his for some fun with friction. Then sometimes you'd sneak out to the kitchen to make omelets or you'd lay around in bed and read his comic book collection for the afternoon, but mainly you'd just lay there and get to know each other, maybe have another go. And maybe you'd date (I slept with my husband the night we met), maybe you'd end up friends, or maybe you'd just smile at each other knowingly at parties for the next few years. But I can't think of a single time for me that it didn't feel human like that. Even hooking up felt like it was about meeting and sharing with people, not just parts. It just feels to me that if you are willing to get to know someone and there's some sort of spark and you can't figure out some way to make each other feel good, well, you're just not trying hard enough. Anyway, I guess I'm just old...
     
  4. I'mStillStanding

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    382
    Location:
    East Coast
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    This is just rude! Lol I’m so jealous we don’t have this... apps have ruined cruising. I want to experience this soooooooooooo bad! Maybe one day I’ll hookup with a guy who builds a time machine!!!
     
  5. shasha1997

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2018
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Taiwan
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I understand your feelings. I have always topped with dainty femmes and can't accept be bottomed by a girl. I have no desire to top my straight husband and enjoy being bottomed by all men i have been intimate with . my dreams follow the same pattern. I am unaware why I suffer these limitations. my therapist thinks stems from my childhood but we have not pinpointed any activity that drove it. he thinks a memory isolation is at play in my behavior.
     
  6. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I really think, based on my experience, that is exactly what a lot of guys want. Every single guy I've met on an app, with one exception, I continue to communicate with. And, I feel so disgusted that I allowed myself to hookup like I did that time.

    My last "hookup" ended up lasting an entire weekend, then the next weekend and we are attending a winter Pride festival. We met on an app but that's the only difference between what you describe and what I experienced.

    I'm old, married and not super attractive. But, I still find plenty of guys who want to get together and do more than just sex. But, I'm also not afraid to tell guys I'm not interested in just hooking up. I think it's important to do that and not settle for the slot A slot B thing.
     
  7. nerdbrain

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2014
    Messages:
    536
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    New York City
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Questioning
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I just wanted to clarify something based on the previous posts: I love bottoming. When I do it by myself, with a toy, it's the greatest. No argument from me on that point.

    My challenge is around being comfortable enough with another man to enjoy it. I think I am afraid to let go. I think I'm afraid of the violent aspect of sex, of penetration as a form of submission, or of being in a vulnerable position with another man. It's not even a conscious thought: in my few experiences, I just sort of shut down physically.

    In my fantasy life, I am totally safe and in control, so it works.
     
  8. Contented

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    2,320
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Why is it so hard for many gay men to just enjoy sex. So many hang ups. It is a normal part of a relationship. Yes at times your vulnerable, sometime dominate other times submissive it’s all part of a healthy sexual relationship. Instead of struggling we should be embracing oral and anal sex as an intricate enjoyable part of gay sexuality. Certainly not the only aspects but important ones none the less.
     
    Adz6 likes this.
  9. Rade

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    630
    Location:
    Bedford UK
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Well I used to be hung up on it, and I'm newly out. I thought I wouldn't want to try for a while. But I was wrong, if your relaxed and with the right guy it's fine. That time I was a top and yeah....it was good....no shame.... embrace who we are....
     
  10. I'mStillStanding

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    382
    Location:
    East Coast
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I understand this! For me it was all about shame. When I first came out I started therapy, I knew the process would be hard but my biggest fear was what would happened the first time I had sex with a man. I want to have sex with a man. There was no question about that, but the fear behind the actually situation was a lot. So I started therapy. I didn’t want to end up in the situation and freak out because of the sexual abuse from my childhood. So I spent nearly four months sorting through before my first time out. I told her I found a guy I was I was gonna have sex with, she was surprised. And then after it all happened I was so excited to tell her how it went, she had been a huge part of me becoming comfortable with enough to do it.

    Anyway, I know we’ve said it a thousand times and it feels like we are on repeat. But the shame thing is very powerful and what ever is the cause of it could be the reason for the shut down. I know you’re looking for a new one, but maybe a support group until you find a therapist would be a good idea.
     
    Rade likes this.
  11. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I wonder a bit about this "all or none" requirement with anal sex. What I mean by that is that the end goal with the encounter is to penetrate or be penetrated.

    What worked for me, was that I started really getting into frottage first. Sometimes this included some some pressure that was close to starting penetration (I'm trying not to get x rated here). This made me comfortable with the thought of actual intercourse. I did this sort of thing a dozen times with my "first" before we had intercourse. We got closer and closer to intercourse each time.

    By the time we did, we were both so comfortable with each other that the experience was one of the best things I've ever done. It was seamless. Like an extension of what we had been doing and reaching a new level.

    I've talked to a number of guys on apps that just want to get someone to f##k them and get it over with. I feel sad for them that this is how they think they get past some of the shame that accompanies early gay sexual experiences.

    Why does anal sex have to be such a goal? Can it not be a process?
     
    Contented and Rade like this.
  12. I'mStillStanding

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    382
    Location:
    East Coast
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Anal sex wasn’t the first thing. My first time my with tutor that wasn’t even on the table. I was nervous about all aspects of sex when it came to me with a man. That is why I found a friend rather than wait to try and find someone I wanted to date. I didn’t want to get into something and have some kind of flash back and freak out you know. Anal sex was the goal for me! I had fantasized about it and I had a 3 stage process in how I wanted to get there, granted I did rush through the final two stages lol. But I personally enjoy contact too, not all of my encounters involve penetration. Most actually don’t! I’ve only actually went all the way with a hand full of guys, while I’ve played with well into double digits.
     
  13. Lone Wolfe

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2018
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    Washington
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    I believe there is a natural progression towards anal sex that I never made it to. I have been bottomed twice in my life, once was a rape when I was 15, the other was as a willing participant. Neither time did anything for me.

    As a kid you start out touching. I had a particularly good mentor who taught me to kiss and how to perform oral. I was so good at it, that nobody I've been with ever wanted anything else. So oral it was well into my 20s. I dropped out of gay life, got married, and never got to explore anal. I wasn't particularly interested in it anyway.

    So along come straights, who assume that all gays only do anal. I end up keeping quiet, because I think I could convert them to gay with one blowjob, but why waste my time. I never felt any shame from straights for anal, because I didn't do it. I'd have that coy smile on my face, so they knew something else was going on. I'd just say, that's not the only thing gay people do for sex. Being straight, they wouldn't know what to say, so end of shame.

    I'm not against anal - I simply have no practical experience on how or what to do. I can lay there and be a bottom, but that's truly not what it is about. I suppose I could top as well, but again, I would not have any idea what I was supposed to do. I read two articles in Advocate mag online, one titled something like "17 Tips for Tops" the other "17 Tips for Bottoms". These were written by a self-proclaimed "expert" on the subject. After reading those, I know for certain I don't know what I'm doing on the subject. That said, if I had a willing teacher, I am willing to learn. So that area is something for someone who cares about me to explore with me.

    Shaming is for people who don't know anything about it.
     
    Adz6 likes this.
  14. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I just realized I had responded to your post with a quote. I was really responding more to the OP. How, he may be looking towards the end game too much.

    To get comfortable, quite frankly, with someone topping you, it might make some sense to be comfortable with being with a naked guy and feeling him against you.
     
    I'mStillStanding likes this.
  15. Robyn mac

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    140
    Location:
    Long island ,ny
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    Other
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I have never felt shame for bottoming. It is a part of sex that I happen to really enjoy. I am fortune enough to almost always orgasm from it. Wether it is a hookup or a relationship it will always put a smile on my face. If it feels good enjoy it while it lasts.
    Do you think a women feels shame every time because she is on bottom. Sometimes they can make you the bottom by moving on top and control the pace of intercourse. You don't feel shame then. It takes a partnership to have sex. When with someone new we discover our roles. The ideal partner is versitale.
    You have to be comfortable in your own skin to be who you are not who you want to be. Wether your having sex with a male or female you should never feel shame . Never feel embarrassed for having sex.
     
    Gayhusband likes this.
  16. nerdbrain

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2014
    Messages:
    536
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    New York City
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Questioning
    Out Status:
    Some people
    @Nickw, for me this is the whole problem.

    You mentioned feeling sorry for guys on the apps who just want someone to materialize out of nowhere, f*ck them, and vanish in a puff of smoke. Well, that is exactly my fantasy. I wish it wasn't.

    I have not been able to get comfortable with feeling a naked guy against me. You describe a gradual progression towards anal sex. I can't seem to get there. I wish I had crushes on men and wanted to do all those things with them. But it just makes me feel weird. I am not turned on by foreplay and intimacy with a man -- kissing, touching, frottage, etc. Honestly, when I think about it, the first thing that pops into my head is french-kissing my Dad. Paging Dr. Freud!

    As a counterpoint, with women, all that stuff works great. And sex usually flows pretty naturally out of that. So I do understand how it's supposed to work.

    What I really want is for that pesky bottoming fantasy to disappear and never come back. I know it's magical thinking. But life would be grand if it was just gone.
     
  17. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Forgive me for this. You don't seem gay to me...maybe not even bisexual. How about your attractiveness to men when the idea of sexual is off the table?

    When you see a hot guy and he is shirtless do you yearn to follow that line of hair from his naval on down? That sort of thing drove me crazy even though the thought of anal sex I found repulsive for most of my life life. And, kissing a guy? Yuck!

    Those can be learned behavior...in my case...maybe yours too. But, way down deep, in my case, was an unshakable attraction to men that was not related, necessarily, to sex with them.
     
  18. Contented

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    2,320
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    For me it’s everything about a hot guy. Visualize kissing cuddling body contact oral anal the works. No shame or misgivings as it all part of who we are sexual creature whether gay, bi , straight or whatever. Enjoy it more stress about it less. In 50 years no one will care if you bottomed or topped once or 500 times. Lighten up kids!
     
    Dionysios likes this.
  19. Brandy Bee

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    89
    Location:
    Ontario
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    In my instance, I have experienced similar feelings to you.
    I have been experiencing same sex intimacy for the majority of my life; clearly, it's something I need to fulfill my sexual self.
    Most of the men I've been with were hookups; guys I met at a bath house or online because I was horny and knew that I enjoyed being with men. So I would, and we would, and after I often felt ashamed.
    Then I realized why. It was because I was hiding this part of me, but mostly it had to do with the context and content of the sex.
    Meeting men I didn't know in seedy places at times, or having them over at my house, or whatever, made me feel like a cheap whore. And the sex was based on porn type sex, because that's the only example I had to go on in terms of what to do. In other words, I didn't know how to be intimate with a man.
    Fast forward to today, I've been with only one boyfriend for over a year, but we've actually been seeing each other almost three. The intimacy is amazing! The kissing lasts forever, we just love touching each other, nibbling, cuddling, laughing, no rush, no quick shower after we finish and dash off back to our "real lives".
    We are each other's real life, we lay in bed together, cuddle on the couch, and the showers are together most often and we take our time together there, too.
    None of this "blow and go" stuff.
    For me anyway, that model for being with someone sexually was extremely unhealthy mentally, and I'm really lucky to still be physically healthy, too.
     
  20. Gayhusband

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    95
    Location:
    Tex
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    I’m sorry, I surely didn’t mean a partner who wants to top has to be more endowed than others to be a good top/lover. I’ve been with guys that we’re much smaller and I was very appreciative that they wanted to top me. We had plenty of fun regardless. I personally prefer/need/enjoy more endowed men because I have a “thing” for larger c**k. My g-spot seems to be mostly stimulated by larger c**ks. That’s my preference, because it seems to me that I have the most satisfying “bottom”sex with endowed men. But as others have stated, it’s not like I only like being topped. As of late, I really feel the desire to top some willing bottom. I recently became aware of the joy of topping a man, when I met a guy in the local vid shop viewing room. The first ting he did is grab my crotch to check if I was aroused. I was, and he smiled and asked if I like to be the top. He was assuming so that I would because I’m larger than average. I told him I’m not that familiar with topping because I’m usually on the bottom. He said he was surprised because he figured with my size I’d prefer being on top. I told him I was horny and versatile. I felt for his, he was smaller than me. He looked embarrassed, I told him not to be and we proceeded. I really liked making him moan and groan. I liked the feeling of being able to provide pleasure for him. A whole new experience for me. Everyone is different and sexuality gay or straight is as different/complicated as the people having it.
     
    Brandy Bee likes this.