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biromantic lesbian?????

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by jen4rd, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. jen4rd

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    Here's how my weird self works. I have emotional attraction for men and women. I have sexual attraction for ONLY women. You would think this is biromantic lesbian right? But i also have physical attraction to both men and women. Sexual and physical aren't the same thing, but does it count under biromantic lesbian? For example; i find myself thinking how much i would love to have a trans man (ftm non transitioned) as a partner, I love the thought of a masculine partner with lady parts. I find the masculinity of them very attractive (but too much masculinity is annoying) so, all that said, do i still qualify under biromantic lesbian or is there another term for it that includes the physical attraction for both? This is bugging me and making me very curious so i would very much appreciate a response from anyone with the knowledge
     
  2. Butterfly6

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    hmmm you like what you like, maybe just don't put a label on yourself. I used to label myself a lesbian then bisexual to straight. Its so confusing to pigeon-hole myself. Technically I have feelings for both sexes and I just say I prefer women sometimes and sometimes men.
     
  3. Leah061

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    Can you expand on what you mean by sexual and physical attraction being different? I know that lots of people identify as being "homo sexual/romantic" or "bi sexual/romantic" or something along those lines, and I don't mean to tell anyone that they're wrong for finding themselves in whatever words make sense to them, but I have to say that the split attraction model often makes things more complicated. It's difficult to define "romantic attraction" separate from sexual attraction, or what sexual attraction is compared to physical attraction, and I think the biggest disservice the split attraction model does to us is that it often keeps us from confronting our own internalized homophobia and clinging on to the heteronormative ideals we've been indoctrinated with since birth. Again, I don't want to tell you how you should or shouldn't identify, I just want to say that by compartmentalizing your feelings into boxes the split attraction model provides, and calling yourself a lesbian who has romantic attraction to men, you might be making it harder for you to clearly see yourself and what it is that you really want.
     
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  4. Chiroptera

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    To further add to what Leah061 explained really well, there is no scientific evidence of a separation between sexual and romantic attractions.
     
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  5. jen4rd

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    There is still a difference. I can develop emotions for men or women. it doesn't really matter the gender, if you have a nice personality i could probably develop some type of romantic or emotional feelings, maybe that makes me panromantic. But i do not have a sexual attraction for men and that i am 100% sure of. If i must be specific, i could find myself in a sexual situation with women, but with men? not so much. It's not appealing to me.
     
  6. jen4rd

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    Im not trying to make it harder for myself. I can develop emotional or romantic, as you put it, feelings for men or women. anyone really, as long as i like the personality. Maybe that makes me panromantic. But i do NOT have a sexual attraction for men. It's not appealing to me. I'm not interested in anything sexually with men.
     
  7. Chiroptera

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    But aren't you essentially saying that you like women sexually and that you may develop deep connections (i.e. friendships) with people regardless of gender? In other words, how what you are calling romantic attraction differs from a profound friendship with someone?

    Please note that I'm not trying to invalidate your feelings, or tell you what you should or shouldn't feel or do. I'm just trying to lay down some questions that may be helpful to you as you reflect upon this.
     
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  8. jen4rd

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    Yeah no i understand where you are coming from but no, i would genuinely be willing to be in a relationship with anyone, regardless of their gender (i'm more thinking im panromantic now that i think about it) but when it comes to anything sexual, i would only be interested in a girl or someone with feminine parts
     
  9. Chip

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    Nope, I'd think that what you're describing is a lesbian who has friendships with men, which is nearly all lesbians except those who have issues with men.

    If the physical attraction includes sexual attraction, then you're bisexual. If it does not include sexual attraction, then you're a lesbian who can appreciate the attractiveness in men, which makes you... a lesbian. :slight_smile:

    There's nothing in any of the research, nor acceptance among any significant portion of credible professionals in the field to support the idea of a separation between romantic and sexual orientation. Unfortunately, a small-but-vocal group of folks, with absolutely no basis in any sort of science, research, or anything remotely reproducible, have perpetrated this unsupported idea, which serves only to confuse people.

    I'd say... stick to the simplicity and you'll probably be a lot happier and have a clearer picture of yourself in the long term.
     
    #9 Chip, Apr 30, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
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  10. Leah061

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    Something that might be worth considering is that gay people are capable of having deep connections with people outside of their own gender. A lesbian might have a profound, emotionally intimate relationship with a man, but that doesn't mean she's attracted to him in anyway. So given that gay people can and do have meaningful non-sexual relationships with different genders, what are you trying to communicate when you use a label like panromantic? Couldn't it be that your desire to be in a non-sexual relationship with anyone, regardless of gender, is simply a desire to have meaningful friendships?

    When I first started questioning, I thought for a while that I might be bi/pan romantic and homosexual, and I relate to some of what you've said. What I've learned is that from birth, we are taught heterosexuality at every turn in our lives. We're taught that it is the one and only path in life, and then maybe we learn that sometimes, some people are gay and deviate from what is "normal".

    We absolutely cannot underestimate the extent to which heteronormativity plays a role in our lives, and shapes how we view what we want in life, especially while trying to figure out our sexualities. That's why the split attraction model can make things complicated. We're expected to be straight our whole lives, so it can be tempting to take any kind of feeling for the opposite gender at face value, and assume it's attraction without inviting much more introspection. When we've been taught our whole lives to assume that we have "normal" straight feelings, we internalize those heteronormative expectations, and as we begin to realize that we may actually not be entirely straight, letting go of those expectations can be a process.

    That's the only reason why I'm so cautious with the split attraction model, because it can keep people in the dark about their true selves and lead them to believe that their entirely normal desire to be friends with more than one gender is actually attraction when they only have sexual feelings for members of their own gender. Of course, you're the only one who can figure this out, and I hope you don't feel that anyone is trying to talk you into identifying a certain way that you're not comfortable with. These are just some things to think about.

    Having said all of that, since you asked, if you know that you're drawn to women and trans men, perhaps this means you're bisexual? Trans men are men, regardless of what their bodies look like, and it wouldn't be accurate to say you're a lesbian if you're actively attracted to men. If bisexuality is defined as attraction to one or more genders, women and trans men certainly meet that criteria. You don't have to be into cis men to call yourself bi or pan.

    Really though, finding a label to describe your feelings may not be the most helpful thing for you right now. Having an exact label to describe every nuanced detail of how you experience attraction may not bring you the peace you're looking for. Maybe for now, just let yourself feel without rushing to give each feeling a label.
     
  11. Chip

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    There's a phrase for this that has been around for decades, if not longer. It's called "emotionally intimate friendship". It has nothing to do with "romantic orientation" or romance, or anything of the sort.

    ... which is what, if one is looking for the widely used and accepted definitions, would describe someone who is a lesbian, nothing more or less.
     
  12. jen4rd

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    I’m not a full lesbian. I don’t think everyone is understanding that I can love a man. I have a boyfriend right now that I love very much. It’s not just a deep friendship. The thing is I don’t want to do anything sexual with him. But I love him.
     
  13. jen4rd

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    i understand what you’re saying. I have thought about that, the fact that since we grow up being convinced that being straight is normal it could have an impact but I don’t think that is the case. I truly can love someone despite their gender, I have a current boyfriend that I love very much I just don’t really want to do anything sexual. My sexual preference is just women though, anything sexual with men that have male parts isn’t appealing to me so I’m not fully bisexual but I’m not fully lesbian, that’s why I’m trying to use the romantic spectrum, either biromantic or panromantic, and now that I’ve really gone in depth about my feelings I’m more leaning towards the latter
     
  14. Chip

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    Have it your way, but what you are describing is emotionally intimate friendship, nothing more. You can love someone and have no interest in having sex with them. That's what emotionally intimate friendship is.

    Now... another possibility is someone who has a history of sexual trauma with opposite sex people, for whom there's a fear or revulsion toward sex. In those cases, someone can deeply love someone, but the fear from past trauma gets in the way of physical intimacy.

    And there's a third possibility: Some people simply don't develop an interest in sexual intimacy until their very late teens or early twenties. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But this would apply equally to sexual intimacy with men or with women.

    And again, there's zero credible evidence to support the idea of a separation between romantic and sexual orientations.
     
  15. Chiroptera

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    Yes, but do you realize how that doesn't make much sense, label-wise?

    I love my friends. I see them every week (and sometimes I see them many times a week). I tell them things I didn't tell anyone else. We laugh and cry together, support each other through hard times and hug each other all the time. They come to my house all the time and they know my family, and I go to their houses all the time and I know their family very well. We see movies together, play videogames together, eat pizza together and, sometimes, we even have disagreements (that are usually solved by concluding we were talking about the same thing, but in different ways : P ).

    I love them. In all these years we have spent together, they became a very important part of my life. They supported me through hard times (like my coming out) and they were near me when my family wasn't (I live in a different state than my father and mother). Our relationship is extremely important to me.

    And they are my friends. I have zero sexual interest in them. I mean, I can look at them and say "Oh, your face is cute", or "You are smart, funny and handsome", because I can see them and I notice these characteristics. But that doesn't mean I want to have sex with them.

    What I mean is, what would be the difference between a friendship like this (the one I just described, which I have with my friends) and the one you are describing as romantic? You could say that it is the fact that I don't call them my boyfriends, using the term friends instead. But, labels aside, let's think about the day-to-day and the practical side: Is there really a difference?

    From what you describe, you may indeed have a truly and special connection with your boyfriend. But what exactly do you mean by using the label romantic? What is the difference between that and a friendship?

    A "romantic connection" isn't a "deeper friendship". The word "friendship" express a connection between people, but it doesn't go from point X to Y, before becoming another label. It doesn't have a "depth limit" before becoming something else.
     
  16. jen4rd

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    I understand ur point but just because there’s no credible evidence doesn’t mean it isn’t true, I haven’t had any trauma and I am interested in sexual intimacy with women, if loving someone but having no interest in sexual intimacy is called an emotionally intimate friendship then so be it but I don’t call it a friendship because that’s not what I consider it. Even if you are straight you can be in an actual relationship with someone without having sex or doing anything like that and it’s still a relationship. My boyfriend is just that, my boyfriend, the only difference from any other relationship is that I’m not interested in sexual intimacy with him, if there’s other women in the future then I will be interested in that :slight_smile:
     
  17. jen4rd

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    You have a good point but there is a very big difference between the love I have for my friends and the love I have for my boyfriend, I could see myself marrying my boyfriend. I kiss him and cuddle him, I don’t do these things with my friends. The love for my boyfriend is romantic, the love for my friends is not :slight_smile:
     
  18. Chiroptera

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    And wouldn't that be the difference between a very close friend and "normal" friendships?

    Besides those friends I mentioned, I have a few other friends which I like, but that I'm not nearly as close as I am to those two.

    You could argue: "Hey, but you don't mentioned you cuddle with them!". Yes, but isn't every friendship and relationship different? I don't like going to bars with them, and I think playing Dragon Age while sitting next to them in the couch is great (as we laugh at the silly character we have created). And, before you argue that playing videogame is something that friends do, not boy/girlfriends, remember that there are many people who are videogame fanatics like me and play all the time with their SO.

    In truth, I used to spend hours and hours playing with my ex, when he was my boyfriend. He used to bring his laptop to my house and we played a lot of League of Legends. We also hang out like I do with my friends, ate pizza together, laughed, cried... it was a deep connection too. The main difference? Well, I was sexually attracted to my boyfriend and we had sex during the years we spent together. I don't do that with my friends, because I'm not interested in them sexually.

    You may not enjoy videogames like me, and you are a different person. So the things you do with your friends may be totally different: Some people enjoy parties, some enjoy hanging out in the mall, some enjoy seeing a movie together at home while sharing popcorn (and some don't like to share because popcorn is awesome). But, again, nothing you are describing justify the use of the "romantic" label. Is it romantic because you like touching him in a non-sexual way? Is it romantic because you have a deep connection with him, different than the one you had with other friends?

    Regardless of you agreeing with me or not, I advise you to please be careful with non-scientific ideas that come from some websites all the time. Humans are complex, relationships are complex. Labels should be used as a general "guide" to express our feelings, but we don't need to fit ourselves into little boxes. What I mean is that some people try to create new labels for every tiny difference in human sexuality or feelings (for instance, how you and I act differently in our relationships with our friends). But everyone is different and, if we create a new label with the intention of expressing our feelings perfectly, we would have a different label for every person in the planet.

    And that's why labels without scientific evidence are a problem. They may end up restricting ourselves into little boxes, because they are super-specific. But humans are complex, our feelings change and, even when they don't, the way we interpret those feelings may change. General labels (like bisexual, in my case) are important because they help during communication. But when people start using super-specific labels, they are trying to describe details that are normal variations of human nature, and that can't be fit into little boxes or words. And that may end up making it more difficult to understand one's feelings.
     
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  19. jen4rd

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    I’m not saying just because you didn’t mention cuddling that means anything, I only said what I did because I don’t do those things with my friends. I do them with my boyfriend. And again like I said, I could see myself marrying my boyfriend, that’s definitely not something I’d do with my friends...
     
  20. Love4Ever

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    Look, I’m going to just jump in and say that I’ve read all the responses. If you love your boyfriend, and you’re happy with him, I’m not going to say that your feelings aren’t real. If you say you love him as more than a friend then you do as far as I’m concerned. To me I liken this to someone who is asexual who just wants a romantic relationship, the only difference is you only feel this way towards men whereas you do have sexual feelings for women. Instead of debating whether you love your boyfriend, (I believe we should believe people who say they love someone) instead I think it would be more useful to help you determine what you might want to do about the lack of sex in your relationship. Are you monogamous? Have you discussed being monagamous or non monogamous? Because the only thing I’m seeing here that could be a problem is if you meet a woman you find sexually attractive and you want to have sex. Would your boyfriend be upset that you will have sex with a woman and not with him? Have you discussed this and is he okay with the possibility that you need to have your sexual desires met else where? I’m not saying to leave him if you don’t want to but I am saying you should talk if you haven’t already about these things.
     
    #20 Love4Ever, May 1, 2019
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