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Anti-Religious on this board

Discussion in 'Empty Closets Help and Feedback' started by dano22, Apr 13, 2012.

  1. dano22

    dano22 Guest

    I respect people's opinions and their right to express them but I do think it is getting out of hand especially when it comes to the topic of religion. I try not push my views onto others and I am sorry if I have done this on here we all get overly sensitive about our own viewpoints sometimes. I am just concerned with the hatred over religion and how it might affect gay youth who are a part of a church and trying to accept their sexuality. There comes a point where you might be taking your opinion too far. For example one poster I came across commented I rather be in hell than in heaven with a bunch of bigots. That concerns me and it saddens me too because it is just as hateful as homophobia.
     
  2. Pseudojim

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    A lot of people here have experienced a lot of pain as a result of their interactions with religion, or perhaps know people who have, whatever religion that may be. There are always going to be sour feelings and people expressing them: after all, just about every religion considers homosexuality immoral and threatens hell for partaking in it. If people are expressing negative sentiment toward religion, the reason for it may be deeply personal. It's only natural that a demographic of people expressly described by almost every single religion's dogma as partaking in 'immoral behaviour' because they love the 'wrong' gender are going to feel threatened or embittered, and the natural reaction is to lash back at the perceived lasher. It's seen as somewhat of a culture war by many people, and unfortunately sometimes this means that forums can take on war-like attributes. As a religious person, it doesn't mean that by lashing back at religion they're lashing at you personally.

    You're always going to be running into anti-religious sentiment, perhaps more often on an LGBT forum than on most others. There is plenty of pro-religious sentiment out there too, those who seek support with balancing their faith and sexuality can always get it here without being harassed about their faith, it happens all the time. That's what's so great about the support forum. In general discussion however, unfortunately (and this is true everywhere) discussions about religion are bound eventually to regress into hostility.
     
  3. dano22

    dano22 Guest

    I completely see your point and as it saddens me that people feel that way especially in the lgbt community. I feel there needs to be a forum specifically for gay christians. Everyone should have the right to post on any forum but when a topic comes up about being gay and christian it seems to have more input from atheists than anything. As there is nothing wrong with that it does get out of hand and turns into people arguing about who is right or wrong. Those kind of discussions should be in a debate forum more than a forum for gay christians who are trying to connect with their religion and sexuality. The opinions from both sides will not help a gay person come to terms with these issues especially if they want to continue to be a christian. I agree that any controversial topic is gonna create hostility and anger from people.
     
  4. Pseudojim

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    Completely disagree. The best way for any given person to come to a well-rounded conclusion is for that person to be exposed to and examine all possible perspectives, i would say. At that point, they can disregard what is useless to them, identify what is useful, and progress. Insulating one from an entire viewpoint will rob them of perspective.

    I haven't seen any of the threads you've been posting in get 'out of hand' anyway though, so far as i can see it's regular discussion and perhaps slightly more animated than usual debate, interspersed with the occasional not-so-well-thought out post, from both religious and non-religious alike. I haven't seen any overt rudeness

    ---------- Post added 14th Apr 2012 at 06:59 AM ----------

    Adding on, i think the support and advice forum already perfectly serves the purpose you are promoting.
     
  5. dano22

    dano22 Guest


    We are pretty much saying the same thing in way what I mean is that no one should try to change people's minds on forums. You can state your opinion and concerns but don't try to get them to think the way you do. For example someone tells me that they want to join a cult I will tell them my honest opinion but at the end say its your choice whatever you do in life. That is the point I am trying to make about what I have seen on message boards you can give your opinion but don't try to change someone's mind. Of course not everybody is mature enough to handle their thoughts and say things out of context it happens. I have done it even being new here but we are only human.
     
  6. No One

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    I completely agree with Pseudojim. People cannot have a truly valid opinion without being allowed to consider both sides of an argument. An opinion formed after hearing only one side isnt really an opinion.

    Secondly, and I know it is often times a matter of perspective, I don't think what you have mentioned is anywhere near getting out of hand. Someone stating something such as the comment you mentioned above is not intended to be a direct insult to anyone. The fact is that many people wouldn't want to be in a place where they are going to be surrounded by those who have judged them, and as Pseudojim said the idea of "heaven" is one held by a religion that, in most cases, labels homosexuality as wrong. It is not "taking it too far" or "getting out of hand" for them to state this opinion.

    Often times it is difficult for LGBT people to talk about their feelings towards religion in their real lives without fear of retaliation, and as such it is only understandable that they would allow those pent up feelings to come out in a safe place like EC. That being said, I do agree that hate speech of any kind should not be allowed and the EC staff does a fantastic job of stopping it when it happens, however, I dont feel that beyond the occasional thread fight we have that problem here.

    ---------- Post added 13th Apr 2012 at 05:30 PM ----------

    That makes no sense at all. The entire purpose of debate is to change someones mind. If you don't have an interest in affecting the opinion of the person you are discussing with in some way or another, why state your opinion in the first place? The difference is that you should not get angry or offended when people disagree with you or dont change their mind.

    It's all about choice; if you are going to be offended by a debate on religion, than you have every right now to read that thread an get involved, just as those people who do want to be involved have the right to.
     
    #6 No One, Apr 13, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  7. dano22

    dano22 Guest

    Again i appreciate hearing from all these different perspectives and i probably was being overly sensitive to people's comments. In my personal opinion i don't let a priest, minister or person tell me how to live my life in christ and god's love. Being a christian there are two different types of christian perspectives a fundamental one and a more open minded liberal one. You see catholic politicians like Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi fighting for gay rights so religion does not equal bigotry and heaven can't be a place full of bigots when you have religious ministers who do speak out in support for gay rights. That is why I have such a problem with that statement. I hate bigotry and I once questioned my belief in God actually which than I realized his love for me. You don't need to believe in God to admit that there is christian community waiting to accept and love gay christians especially in America.

    This a quote I made up:
    'If everyone who sinned was going to hell heaven would be a empty place"
     
  8. Steve712

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    I think that this attitude of enforced passiveness toward personal beliefs is unfortunate. Discourse and debate are vitally important aspects of human life; politics, education, research and science rely heavily upon them. Banning such interactions concerning two things so inextricably human as religious belief and sexuality would not only be unrealistic, but counterproductive to improvement and development. For one, it would regress any advancements made in reconciling them by the members here. Furthermore, there are people who might very well be better off if they decided, through the observation of and participation in debate, that they ought to abandon religion or convert to another one. I was certainly one of those people. It is important for a society, even one as small as a forum, that discussion remain open, especially despite taboo which would dictate otherwise (to which we here at EC are certainly no strangers).
     
  9. Pseudojim

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    Agreed with No One re the changing of minds. Forcing change isn't cool, and nor is intolerence, but the purpose of debate is progression, which by definition requires change.

    Besides which, most religions place a mandate on their followers to promote their faith as a core directive and a matter of principle. I'm not on a witch-hunt here, but that does shine through now and then.

    There is nothing wrong with the above quote, though. It's how we all communicate =)

    ---------- Post added 14th Apr 2012 at 07:45 AM ----------

    There's an example of you reading something and finding it useless to you. It was an emotional sentiment not completely thought out by the original poster, but it sounds like you know that already. If that's the case, pass it off as nonsense and go past it. Grand sweeping statements like that don't deserve serious consideration anyway
     
  10. dano22

    dano22 Guest

    I have a learning disability so I am sorry if the words don't come out right sometimes. The same goes for you and other people on this forum if someone makes a post out of support for religion and being gay and your going to get offended than don't comment on it as simple as that.
     
  11. Black Cat

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    There are some religious people on EC, myself included. It's nice that we all have differing opinions on hot topics like religion, it makes for interesting conversations and such. But bear in mind that just because there are some anti-religious people in every situation, that doesn't mean the whole establishment is anti-religion.

    Or you could just ignore the threads on religious discussions if the replies bother you too much. I for one don't get upset by any of the opinions of those who respond (sometimes disparagingly, but usually just different from my own) because I am aware of different ideas, secure in my faith, and even enjoy hearing different perspectives on such matters.
     
  12. dano22

    dano22 Guest

    I don't mind other people's opinions it just stating your viewpoint and than taking it too far. There is freedom of speech of course there are limits to where you sound more offensive than stating a general opinion. If that opinion involves stereotypes that saying all christians are bigots than its a little more personal. I am taking your advice and next time I will ignore those opinions which might be offensive to me. They are not worth my time.
     
  13. Pseudojim

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    good =) remember you're always as welcome here as anyone else, please don't let any individual comments drive you away or make you feel like you don't belong, because you do =)
     
  14. Ben

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    This issue has come up a number of times in EC's past, and there's not really an easy resolution to it. We try to be fairly tolerant when it comes to diversity of views, because there are plenty of members who have been harmed by a religious upbringing. That said, religious intolerance doesn't have a place on these boards, and insults towards religion that might scare religious members away defeat the purpose of EC providing an accepting place for everyone.

    If you see something that you think is offensive or not appropriate, hit the report button and the staff will collectively decide what action, if any, should be taken. It's not a hassle, and our attention will be drawn to an offensive remark much quicker if someone tells us about it. This goes for intolerance of all kinds, religion included.
     
  15. dano22

    dano22 Guest


    I understand that people have been harmed by a religious upbringing and luckily that never happened to me. But at the same time there are ministers out there waiting to love and accept the gay community into their churches. I understand the hatred of these individuals but i just want people to realize there is acceptance in some churches throughout America.
     
  16. Hot Pink

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    I'm sure that there are, Dano, but that isn't going to change anyone's minds. Too many of us have been burned by Christianity's bigotry, hypocrisy, and deep-rooted self-loathing to give it much thought again. If you wanted my honest opinion of it, that is. Some of us have found faith in other spiritual beliefs, though.
     
  17. NoName114

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    I agree with Hot Pink whenever I hear the words "God" "church" or pretty much anything religious I get defensive because that's what we have to do
     
  18. BudderMC

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    The thing with offensive comments/opinions is it's largely based on how we react to them; think about it... is something really offensive if nobody gets offended by it? And on that same page, what's offensive to one person is not to another.

    If EC was to be super respectful of not letting anything that could be offensive be posted, we'd have no posts. Everything everywhere is offensive to someone. The only thing we can do is control our reaction to it, as you already stated.

    Just wanted to throw my two cents in.
     
  19. Hot Pink

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    See, when I was new here, there was a thread about religion. I remember saying how I was an atheist and why I'm an atheist. I didn't think it was disrespectful or anything, but then a got a message from a mod, telling me to watch what I post. They said that my post wasn't offensive, but could be perceived as offensive.

    I gave a reply back saying how I think that's discrimination against atheists. We're not allowed to post about our beliefs and religious people are? Honestly, in a few more experiences since then, I think religious people are given too much lenience on this site. They are often treated like a volatile substance that have to be treated with care. And you know what? They often are. People with privilege often act a bit like spoiled children when they encounter an environment that refuses to give them privilege. And that's exactly how I see this thread: yet another religious person throwing a temper tantrum because the community won't give religious people special privilege over atheists.

    Just like you have the right to talk about your beliefs, I have the right to talk about mine. For the most part, Empty Closets is great about that. There have been a few hiccups where I have felt religious people got treated better because the mods simply wanted to avoid an incident. Kid gloves. I think that if religious people learned to be more tolerant of other people's beliefs, this privilege would go away and threads like this wouldn't happen.
     
  20. Kerze

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    :eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap