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Androgyne Identity

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Nightdream, Sep 5, 2014.

  1. Nightdream

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    I'm just curious about how things works for androgynes... I already made some more research about this topic, but I still don't think I've got enought information. Is there someone here that could give me tour views about it?
     
  2. Kaylen

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    Um, I'm not sure if I can help exactly, but I'm going to try. I, uh, tend to ramble, so I'll start with an apology for that. I'm sorry :icon_redf

    The androgyne gender identity I would define as being in the middle of the female-male spectrum, presenting as either both or neither of the sexes, although not gender fluid (moving along the spectrum.) Vague, but I think it's a good explanation.

    In terms of myself, because I cannot speak for everyone, I don't mind being biologically female - what I do mind, have always minded, is being perceived as female, as though it's a given, as well as my distinguishing sex characteristics (breasts, hips, ect.) I've always felt comfortable being referred to as female, or when people use the female pronouns in reference to me, as though someone was calling me by the wrong name, and acting as though I was someone completely different. I'm not sure how to explain it, but if I started calling you Trevor and talking about you as though you were my basketball playing buddy from middle school, and you had to pretend to be just that because I said so. That's as close as I can get.

    I always felt uncomfortable in dresses, or anything particularly girly, and yet I always felt pressured. I had long hair, which I hated, and I mostly wore baggy plain girl's v-necks. I had a lot of issues during the latter years of middle school and all through high school (after puberty) which resulted in terrible self-esteem and eating disorders as I tried to literally starve off my sex traits, wanting a more slim, masculine body, without the hips and breasts. Obviously that didn't work and just made me more miserable.

    I never thought there was anything other than female and male - and the idea always seemed ridiculous to me. I thought I might have been trans - but that wasn't right, I didn't mind my biological sex, as I said, just my sex traits. I didn't want to be a man. I didn't want to be a woman. I had always been jealous of androgynous people that could pass as either gender at will, and walk that line where people were unsure of what gender they were. I wanted that - I always knew I wanted that, but that was a bit strange, so I continued playing pretend until I was over at a friends house, and I started crying over my hair I think it was, because I was sick of being girly, and sick of being a girl, and my friend suggested I was androgyne, or at least non-binary.

    Since then, I looked into it, and I have to say I agree. I've got my identity, and I'm so sick of playing pretend, so I've since cut my hair and started dressing the way - I - want to.

    Sorry for telling you all of this :icon_redf I just thought it would help you understand. It's a bit strange, and I am still trying to take in that there is actually an identity, a word for people like me.
     
  3. AsheTheHuman

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    I tend to agree with Kaylen here. For me, I've always felt uncomfortable with my body hair and have a growing desire to grow my hair out. And if I want to wear a 'girly' necklace or use a messenger bag or something similar, so what? Besides that, I've never been into sports, cars, guns, or whatever boys are into. I've literally sat on the sidelines writing poetry while my friends played basketball or whatever. I don't really feel like a boy, at least not anymore, but I don't feel exactly like a girl either. I have NO desire to surgically alter my body. I don't have days where I feel like more of a boy than a girl or vice-versa. I very consistently just don't want to be a gender, nor do I feel the need to conform to one at any given moment.
     
  4. Kaylen

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    I meant uncomfortable. But yeah, like Ashe said, its more an identity as neither sex and a refusal to adhere to social expectations of our birth sex. I don't want to surgically alter myself either, although I do bind and work out to decrease my femininity.

    That is it in a nutshell.

    I feel like we pretty much covered everything.
     
  5. Nightdream

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    Thanks a lot for your replies, I got able to understand better what it means to be androgyne. There's no need to apologise, I got able to understand pretty well what you wanted to say and AsheTheHuman, you also helped me understanding how things works for some androgynes/agender too.

    Oh, and sorry if I made you two feel uncomfortable by asking you about your identities. I hope I haven't bother you too much.

    If someone else have something more to say, just go ahead. I don't mind late answers.
     
  6. AsheTheHuman

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    Androgynes and agendered people typically prefer different pronouns as well. I can't speak for Kaylen, but personally, I prefer xe or ze in place of he, she and so on. There's a lot of different ones, so you might want to look it up. Also, no need to apologize! I don't know what your situation is, but I'm glad I could help you understand better! If anything, it makes me more comfortable. If you have any specific questions feel free to ask, I won't get offended. Unless it's about animals, lol.
     
  7. clockworkfox

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    Ashe and Kaylen are pretty spot on.

    For me, it's again, got to do with knowing I'm not really either gender. However, I do wish to surgically alter my body. I wish I had a flat chest with my binder off, and some day I hope to be able to make that happen. I would consider myself to be on the trans spectrum because of this, because I do desire to be more masculine physically, but I wouldn't say my experiences and desires are quite on the same level as those of transmen. Namely because I'm not a man, and being a man isn't my end goal.
     
  8. Nightdream

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    Okay okay... Just going to warn that you asked for it. :lol:

    1- When you figured out that you weren't a male nor a female and how?

    2- If you came out to someone, how you got able to explain them your feelings about it? Were they able to understand or they just find it to be silly?

    3- How you see gender? I mean... About the things that society define as masculine or feminine? Do you think it's something completely unecessary or what?

    4- When you see other people interacting with each other like two females, two males, a male and a female, do you find it confusing? Something that you can understand but don't want to participante or you do participante in a different/similar way other people do?

    Just some question I made because I wanted to understand better how an agender's mind might work. I know it may have sounded offensive, but males and females usually interact in a different way from each other and I'd like to know how someone that is none of those socialise with them. It's pretty hard to understand what being non-binary means for most people and well... I belisve that I'm one of those people. :icon_redf

    My situation? You mean about my gender identity or something of the sort? Well... I consider myself cis female with some sort of slight gender variance, not enought to people think that I'm a freak, just enought to feel different from other girls, but then again, I'm different from everyone around me regardless from their gender anyway. I already questioned my gender before, but I identify myself as a female even though I still have my doubts sometimes. Yeah, I could be creating this thread because I might be still questioning my gender, but I find the fact that I have way too many proofs(including how I feel) that I am a female way too present for me to identify myself other than that.

    ---------- Post added 6th Sep 2014 at 05:45 PM ----------

    Hey there. Yeah, already heard about some androgynes wanting to change some parts of their bodies and... Sorry if I wasn't able to understand correctly, but you consider yourself to be in the trans spectrum because you'd like to change some things about your body? I already heard about some trans people not changing their bodies because they feel comfortable in their bodies, is it possible for someone being trans, but not wishing to make any change in their bodies or they just don't do it because they can bear with their dysphoria? Sorry, just a question that came out of nowhere right now.
     
  9. Kaylen

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    I also don't like she/he pronouns - they make me ridiculously uncomfortable - it's that Trevor scenario thing I was talking about, where people are treating you as something you're not.

    I can't answer the specific questions you proposed to the others, but with my dysphoria, it can be quelled without modifications, (by binding) and doing a lot of fitness to lessen curves. I would love a more masculine body, but I wouldn't undergo surgery for it.

    Also - I feel gender is a spectrum, and there are tomboys and girly guys, but they are still comfortable with their respective gender - it's when dysphoria comes into play that I would start to consider a separate gender identity. Although I do think society's gender expectations are unneccessary - if a girl looks like, and is comfortable looking like a girl, but wants to play football - she's still a girl if she feels that way. It doesn't matter. That's a personal thought though, one which might be quite a bit different from the others. Certain interests shouldn't take you away from a gender, I think. I still wear make-up, even though I don't consider myself female, and I think men should be able to wear it too. I have a mixed set of interests, both male and female, but I wouldn't attribute that to my gender identity, because I feel as though interests and gender are separate things. Does that make any sense? :confused:
     
  10. Nightdream

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    Yeah, it does. Things work similar to this for me, but I'm a female istead of androgyne. :lol:
     
  11. AsheTheHuman

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    I've always been curious about gender. I remember being particularly interested in an old episode of Jimmy Neutron where Jimmy and Cindy changed bodies and their minds started changing to be more feminine or masculine as well. It became really clear most recently when I found myself wanting to buy a necklace and a handbag. I also (outside of more nerdy stuff like video games and camping) was never into things other boys were into. Guns, cars, sports, etc. I agree with Kaylen that interests do not dictate gender, but they do influence it, I think. Add this to the fact that I've always been uncomfortable about body hair and short hair, and you've got a recipe for not a boy! On the other hand, thinking about being a girl... I don't want to wear makeup, or skirts, or skinny jeans or anything like that, and I don't find myself relating with girls any more often than guys, nor do I have a desire to be a girl. Shortly put, I don't want to be a girl, but I'm not comfortable as a guy.

    I'm very luck to have some extremely accepting friends. Of the three I've told, only one needed me to explain what being agender means, and after he learned, he accepted. They had questions, which is only fair. After all, one of their friends just told them they want to be called by a different name. They didn't ask anything too private, and in return I answered honestly. I HAVE told my parents that I'm pan (but NOT agender), and when that inevitably brought up genders outside the binary, I had to explain everything to them. They knew nothing. All in all! it depends. Certain people need to be educated. It's not a bad thing, nor are they ignorant. Agendered people really aren't that common, and they were even less so back when my parents grew up.

    I don't find gender labels unnecessary, but rather, optional. Some people (including Me!) use labels to help define themselves. People all calling themselves by the same label can lead to a better sense of community, as well. Other people would rather leave labels at the door and just be them, and that's fine, too! Labels can help or hurt! How you use them (if at all) is up to you!

    This is something I'm not really sure about. I've never really thought about it. When I see people interacting, I see them interacting as humans, not genders. I'm wish I could elaborate more, but that's genuinely my complete feelings on the matter!

    I wasn't sure if you were questioning or not and didn't want to make assumptions. Anyways, I hope I helped!
     
  12. Nightdream

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    Thanks for your answers. Yeah, you helped me a lot in educating myself about it. About me questioning my gender identity... I already did that and I thought that putting the gender I identify myself as and not saying anything about me questioning would be enought for nobody assume that, really. But I can't say that sometimes I have my doubts, but I think it's normal, I guess? I don't believe my body is wrong for me and I feel OK presenting as a female, I even preffer doing so(okay, I admit that I already made my gender become anonymous one time or another, but whatever) tbh.
     
  13. AsheTheHuman

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    Yeah, I just wasn't sure if you were questioning or not. Usually people who ask these kinds of questions are, but it's definitely nice to hear from someone who isn't that just wants to understand better. And I didn't assume either way even if it sounds like I did. This place is definitely full of people asking questions about themselves and I wasn't sure if you just didn't update your profile or something. Glad I could be of help!
     
  14. gravechild

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    There are days I wish to present more masculine, or more feminine, but I can't say with certainty I've ever felt 100% male or female. If anything, I'm most comfortable when someone either doesn't know of my biological sex, or simply treats me not in an extremely gendered way. Pronouns vary - sometimes I'm neutral towards them, and others they bother me a lot.

    Dysphoria... at times I feel limited by what I have or don't have, but wouldn't say surgery and hormones are a must at this point, or ever. Being able to shape shift would be nice, but since that's not possible, I tend to detach and distract myself from my body. When I was younger, though, I would practice tucking, do something like "reverse binding" with various household objects, and admire/envy women's bodies.

    But things like gender and sexuality have always interested me from an early age. I think I might have been drawn to them as "casual" interests at the behest of my subconscious telling me something. Roles made no sense, and I had a hard time figuring out how men and women were different, as well as why.

    Options were limited, although discovering the LGBT community was the first step. I identified with things like cross dressers and effeminate gay men, since we were AMAB and on the feminine side, but not until a year or two ago did I discover the whole genderqueer and non-binary community. It was one of those light bulb moments, it just fit, and I haven't looked back since.

    For years, I told myself that I was simply gender-variant, and even tried going back to living as a "male" for a short time after discovering my genderqueerness, which didn't work out too well! Anyway, the way I understand it, androgynes feel either male and female, and/or both (androgynous meaning having qualities of both men and women, androgyne being the identity version). Unlike gender fluid, who switch between two or more, or bigender, who experience sharp shifts, androgynes stay as one thing, even if their expressions change.

    Hope that helps!
     
  15. Nightdream

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    Your opinion and your story helped a lot. Thanks for the reply. :thumbsup:
     
  16. AlexTheGrey

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    As an aside, this is definitely part of how I feel. But one of the hurdles I've had to come across more recently is trying to understand why this hasn't bothered me as much as it has others. It was simply that there are certain gendered habits/expectations that I've managed to dodge for a good chunk of my life. And it never really occurred to me until I had to think on it.

    People don't really use any 3rd person pronouns in my presence, but my name. I haven't run into many people who have tried to shove me into a particular gender box, and usually are just confused by me and let it drop. It has been more of a background noise of my life, and not in my face like it is with some people.

    The downside is that my name is about as gendered as it gets. I've never really liked the name all that much, for multiple reasons.

    This. So much this. To the point where I've created friction in relationships because of it, and expecting that the differences pushed by society simply don't exist. It's only been the last month or so that gender construction started to make any sort of sense to me.

    ------

    Exposure to new ideas, really. I've had my mild dysphoric moments, but it took seeing artists online talk about their status as non-binary, or introducing non-binary characters for me to really think it could be me. And even then, it took about a year after Chaos Life posted this particular comic on the topic before it started to sink in that I saw a lot of myself in that, even if it wasn't a perfect reflection.

    It's still an ongoing process with the one person I have come out to. They've been more supportive than I could have asked for, and has been trying to push me along a bit as well. Although their understanding is growing at the same time mine is.

    To me, gender is certainly a real, social construct. But I'm baffled how we've managed to take something that can be as diverse as gender, and force it into not only a binary, but a binary that somehow aligns with your sex. That is the real confusion to me. Gender seems to represent some aspect of ourselves, but exactly what is something I couldn't put into words, beyond it is part of us, and it isn't related to sex at all, but we only have words that also align with sex to describe it. It is goofy.

    Not really confusing, but I see a lot of diversity in those interactions you bring up. It is more that I don't see anything different in those three types of interactions. To me I see more differences in how two people interact, based on some underlying trait that might be in play: friendship, sexual attraction, social awkwardness, etc.
     
  17. BeaniesAndBras

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    Okay I'm going to attempt to understand this:
    Androgyny is in between and bigender who are either male or either female for a bit before switching and fluid is like bi but with more than male and female to switch between?
     
  18. lostboy94

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    Thought I would throw in my two sense for what its worth I am going to only answer the first question for now may come back to this we shall see. I AM SO TIRED. If you want to read about my discovery of being asexual go to my blog thingy its more exciting DOUBLE THE DISCOVERY :eusa_danc
    1- When you figured out that you weren't a male nor a female and how?
    I never really felt like a girl didn't like girly clothes, didn't want to date guys (more of the asexual thing), was not into the usual girl activities of shopping, gossiping etc that I saw my sister do. Most importantly as I grew breasts I found them extremely disturbing to the point I wanted to take a iron to them (sorry graphic image) so yes always knew it was something. My parents said I was a tomboy so I just went with it but that didn't feel right but I just tried to ignore it as much as possible. Then this past year I read an article in the Washington Post about a agendered person and everything just clicked into place. I finally knew what I was, why I hadn't grown out of being a tomboy HUZZAH LIGHT BULBS FLASHING!
    O by the way here is the link to the article READ IT ITS WONDERFUL :smilewave
    When no gender fits: A quest to be seen as just a person - The Washington Post
     
  19. GreyArchery

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    I just found this thread and let me say - THANK YOU! I've recently been questioning my gender identity and if I have one - it's never really mattered to me before but I read a lot of comics that are about gender identity and gender issues, which made me wonder what my gender identity was.

    I'm still not entirely certain what my gender identity is, but this thread and the stories and information shared in it has given me a lot of very helpful information. And I can relate to a lot of what is being said here - so yay for coming one step closer to figuring out who I am!

    So THANK YOU once again everyone. I hope one day I'll be able to offer the same kind of helpful stories to someone else who is also questioning their identity.
     
  20. Nightdream

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    Thanks for your reply. It helped a lot!

    ---------- Post added 10th Dec 2014 at 08:18 PM ----------

    I'll take a look at the article. Thanks for the reply.

    ---------- Post added 10th Dec 2014 at 08:21 PM ----------

    Glad to know that this thread is helping someone. I hope you figure things out soon. (*hug*)