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Am I trans?

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by timeywimey, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. Silenced

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    Sorry 11 11 11, going off individual experience, didn't intend to assume specifically; hope I didn't offend you! Of course, there are people on all sides of the fence, so apply whatever makes sense to you from my rambling.

    Whoa, I was really tired when I wrote that part Mobiusponder quoted. "There are varying severity" indeed :icon_roll

    Yeah; LP really, really could do with less pink. Still, book by its cover and all.

    Seems a lot of people are in this inbetween state; my experience there is limited, but like I said, play with it - the world's not going to end if you cross-dress for a day or fifty to figure out what suits. Going with guys again as a generalization, some wear guys clothes from infancy, but there's a complete spectrum - one of the guys I've spoken to was a female model for years before he came out. On the other side, several transwomen I know used to be soldiers, weightlifters, truck drivers - all apparently mostly masculine past-times. So, as I think some of you probably understand better than me, this isn't binary.

    If you're worried that there's something wrong with it, compare it to all the other things people have said was wrong, before society caught up. You're not harming anyone, hell, you may even get in a state where you're better able to help other people because you're at peace with yourself - so where's the problem?

    Yeah it can hurt like hell when you know you're stuck in the wrong skin, but always keep in mind we're in an age, thankfully, where that's for the large part fixable. There are things that can't be changed, but hell, it's so much better as is that most days I don't care.

    As always, throw questions if you're so inclined.
     
  2. 11 11 11

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    Of course you didn't offen Silenced - almost a compliment really xD

    Again your advice is solid - I don't really have much to add.

    Except perhaps a question.

    Do any of you have experience with simply not having any sense of identity? I mean - once you realise that a lot of the behaviours / stereotypes that society assigns to a gender are mostly meaningless - it can be a bit hard to get and clues as to how you feel about your own gender.

    From what I've read of other's experiences - even those that didn't feel dysmorphic from a young age - still feel that they belong to their target gender somehow - and that's what drives them to make changes to their lifestyle and body.

    It just seems a bit silly to me to say "I'm gonna wear guy clothes" (or girl clothes) - "So that people see me more as a guy". Because in all honesty, most people will just see you as some sort of weird cross-dresser - and how does that help establish your inner personality? Surley you don't check the label of your clothes every morning to remind yourself what gender you are?
     
    #22 11 11 11, May 3, 2012
    Last edited: May 3, 2012
  3. Silenced

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    Interesting take; the distinction I'd make is this:

    A lot of people inherently know from a very early age; a lot of people also have no idea until they're much older - they know something is wrong, but they don't know what. This is what usually happens with people who experiment with it later in life. Only thing that's different, to my mind, is that it merits thinking the process through a whole lot more.

    Let me put it to you like this: When Gallaudet Gal is hiding in that room dressed as a chick, is it so other people can see? Of course not - it's because there is a propensity, almost a need, to dress that way. At that moment, it has absolutely nothing to do with what anyone else thinks. Gallaudet Gal may want it to in future, hell, dreaming about it from all accounts, but at that point it's entirely about how the individual feels, not how they're perceived.

    So, the logical extension of that is that we start with something like that, and decide that it feels more natural than the alternative; so we dress in public how we feel, rather than so other people know how we feel.

    From that, the desire to pass - in my case, as a guy - becomes more prevalent. But it's far more about being able to be how I feel and have that recognized than trying to look a certain way and have it recognized to make other people aware of how I feel; if I wanted that, I'd wear a shirt saying "This guy used to be physically a chick, but wants you to know he's a guy now."

    To be honest, there are transpeople who are 'visible', as it were; they pass as their elected gender, but want people to know of the change; some people want that, others don't - like pretty much every other type of self expression, it comes down to the individual.

    Long answer short though, the clothes aren't there to remind me who I am - they simply feel right when applied to who I am. It feels more natural for me to dress as a guy than a chick. If I just wanted to be seen as a guy, I'd probably just cross-dress. Instead, because I am a guy, it's more about me than how I'm seen.

    Heh, long rant, sorry - help any?
     
  4. Farouche

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    I often feel that I don't have a gender identity. I also often feel masculine, and once in a while feminine, but generally the whole concept of gender doesn't apply to me. I don't think I would be happy being totally male or female. I'm doing pretty well living in my female body but presenting as male, it seems to balance things out, in a way. Of course it's confusing as heck for the cisgender people around me.
    Is that what you were asking, 11 11 11 ?
     
  5. 11 11 11

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    Silenced - I think Gallaudet Gal might be more of a tentative FTM - rather than a MTF. :grin:

    ---------- Post added 4th May 2012 at 01:53 PM ----------

    And in response to your post Silenced:

    I don't know - perhaps Gallaudet can give us some clarification on this. But I have a suspicion that "need" is a manifestation of her desire to validate her target gender.

    It's not like male/female clothing has a magnetic attraction for a trans person. It's that - those items of clothing are worn exclusivley by their target gender - and as such - represent that gender in some shape or form. Wearing them provides releif from the dysphoria a transgendered person feels, because they feel that their urge to be a part of thier target gender is being fulfilled.

    Gender of course - being such a fluid and changeable construct - I can't even begin to assume that this is the case for everyone.

    But if our test-dummy transgender person was cross-dressing in private, while I agree - no-one is there to perceive them, are they not perceiving themselves? And if they have a desperate desire to see themselves as part of a target gender - would not wearing clothing of that target gender please them? Because it shifts their own perception of themselves and their body?

    I think that's where the "natural" feeling comes from. (of course I could be totally wrong). But because test-dummy transgender person now feels that their desires are being fulfilled to some degree - of course they feel more comfortable with themselves and their new clothes. And once they've got enough self-confidence - yes they may venture out into the world dressed that way.

    Now...

    This...

    So here I suppose you're drawing a distinction between cross-dressers and transgendered people? You said, if you wanted to be seen as a guy you'd just cross-dress, assuming this is the reason that crossdresses do x-dress (which it isn't always) - then that means, you desire something more than just to be "seen as a guy".

    I'm not trying to be insulting or anything - I'm just curious - but does the fact you desire something more than just to be "seen as a guy" mean that you're uncomfortable with something deeper than clothes? Perhaps your body? If that's the case, then yes, you'd fall into the catagory of transgender. Where your internal gender identity dosn't match your external one.

    Sorry if I just spent a load of words outlining something that's blatently apparent to you - I'm just writing out my thoughts here.

    Now...

    A question! :grin:

    My father once said to me that he didn't understand why transgendered people would want to change their bodies to match their internal gender. I said "why dad?" (being the lovely, adorable, caring son he feels he deserves). He replied "Well. They feel that their gender is different to their bodies correct? So if they can accept that their bodies and their true gender can be different - why then would they want to try and change their bodies? Why can't they just stay as a woman in a man's body or whatever?"

    I'd be interested to hear your answers.


    Oh and Farouche what you seem to be describing is a state of genderfluidity or bi-genderism. But in your case you say don't mind your "female" body, but present as "male". I suppose the fact you said you don't have any gender identity does mean you have some relation to what I was talking about. But if you really feel you have no gender identity how can you say that you present as male? And how are you fine living with your "female" body? I would have thought that a genderless person would prefer to be androgynous. I'm not trying to say you should want to be androgynous. I'm just slightly confused.
     
  6. Deaf Not Blind

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    sounds like we all have been going through similar struggles all on our own, and kinda taking similar paths a step at a time, sometimes even backwards.
    i am just glad this place exists where we can talk freely and find out we are not alone and it gives me peace.
    yeah i am starting to get a few clothes now, and more bold in wearing them, and i just feel contentment that i can. i feel more similar to the opposite gender whenever i am around them this way too. and i feel happier.
    if just wearing stuff makes me feel better as a person, more normal, thats even enough there. but i still have a strange feeling its but a step to another step.
     
  7. Silenced

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    This is the last time I post without having at least seven hours sleep first, honest. Sorry Gallaudet Gal!

    Okay, going to try and make this make some sense: I think what I tried and failed to communicate is largely what you said - that yes, wearing clothes is somewhat about perception (of oneself or by others) but it's more than that. With someone who is transgendered, it's about that relief of dysphoria, more than just about the look.

    Second point, yep - I know cross-dressers who are perfectly comfortable in the gender they were born, but love cross-dressing. If I just wanted to be seen as a guy, but was comfortable otherwise, that would be what I would do. As is, I'm certainly not comfortable as anything but a guy - so, clothes alone are not enough. They help, certainly, but arguably not as much as taking testosterone has; now I could walk around in a dress, if so inclined, and still be seen as a guy. Personally not something I'd want to do, but that's the distinction, for me.

    That's exactly the case - the issue isn't clothing, it's physical, where as for a lot of people interested in exploring gender, clothing is often enough.

    The response to the question is pretty much the one every transperson or doctor asks at some point; to be honest the answer will likely vary from person to person but for me, the case is this:

    Before transition, it literally felt like every part of me was not meant to exist in the form it did. It was almost a kind of physical pain, and several times I wanted to set myself on fire to burn it away and correct it. As melodramatic as that is, the point is I didn't want to die, I just wanted to be in a form that felt right. If gender was just a societal construction, which I know many people think is it, I don't think I could have felt that strongly, particularly not from such a young age. I have nothing against women; there are some who I consider absolute heroes - I'm just not one of them.

    There is something hardwired in whatever bundle of nerves which makes up my identity that is dissimilar to the nerves in a woman's head.

    I don't think that's true for everyone - I believe there are people quite happy with being truly gender fluid, and I think that's probably physiological too; just a different variation of the human condition.

    To me, there's a difference between accepting that they can be different, and accepting that they are different. In some people, accepting the latter is easy - for me, it was pretty damaging. As always, everyone's different. I know it doesn't give much of a satisfying answer, but it's all I've got.

    Finally, Gallaudet Gal, it may well be. Before I started transitioning, I had dressed as a guy as much as I could get away with - I'd never met anyone else who was transsexual, and didn't know too much about it, but that came naturally from adopting a male alias online, and friends just using male pronouns in school without prompting. It got to the stage where I asked people to, and it just felt right.

    It may well be a step to further things - the more you consider it might be, the more strong I think that possibility is. If it's making you happier, then run with it.
     
  8. Deaf Not Blind

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    wow, thanks for your story and insite. i appreciate that. so you are on testosterone? did you have second thoughts, fears? like baldness or that your voice will not turn out good but be like deep woman's voice? no u don't have to answer, but i gotta ask. everyone is different, some will never take T, some never any kind of surgery, but all vary in dysphoria.
    with me, the strange urges to dress more boyish have came and went, that is got very strong then i put it aside, since a kid. looking back, i see several times i prayed God would be kind and give me a different body. i guess as a child i figured there is nothing i can do about certain things so why over dwell on it. but i did do things like putting on extremely too small shirts to appear flat when 11, and nobody taught me that. i figured many girls must hate puberty, women bodies, periods, chests getting that big stuff taking over, stupid make up, etc. Then Judy Blume book, oh gosh how awful! that woman had to be mental patient, who in right mind wants a bigger bust??
    i have an online guys name for fb, my friend (24hr ex gf) uses it, and oovoo and hotmail use it. its what i would have been named if the other gender. :wink:
    she says now even when using voice she still is seeing me as male. funny thing is i look at us on oovoo i often see my face as male, and my hands sometimes seem to move and look strangely male. how that is coming about i don't know. but i actually decided to wear my soft pack to school one day, i wore a long enough jacket to mostly cover my jeans to that point, but when i sat down took it off. nobody noticed, i didn't want them to see, i just didn't want to take it off to leave the house, i wanted to try to have it on all the time. everyday as soon as i get home i head to my room to put my paper in my mens briefs. i don't need attachments, it stays fine. it is just about knowing its there. i got my 1st binder, i had to go between classes to get it from post office, went to closest taco bell and put it on, and went to class with packer and binder on. just so i could feel better, normal. how weird. when nobody in ladies room, i unzipped my jacket so i could see my body in my clothing, how it layed nicely. i felt happy as my chest is flatter and i feel more free. i don't take it off unill i turn off the lights and as i always have, i avoid looking at my chest. i don't actually wash the female shaped things well, i don't want contact physically with them to see them. i don't think all females are like this. it could be i am just a tomboy who's confused, but i keep thinking transgender sounds sadly correct. oh God say it is not so. it is acceptable to be tomboy, ftm is not something to make mom proud. its something part of me forbids and part of me urges to study.
     
  9. Silenced

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    That not wanting it to be the case, I understand completely.

    When I was a kid, I actually thought I was crazy. Was fine running around as a 'little guy' until I got into about year 3; changed schools to one with a dress as uniform. Threw up that day; became totally introverted afterward. Spent a couple of years where people just assumed I was shy, but eventually it got bad enough that the school sent me to a psychiatrist. Here's where the similarity comes in - I remember thinking at the time "I can't tell her I'm a guy - she'll have me committed. She'll think I'm insane." I would have been twelve or thirteen at that point.

    After I refused to see her any more, I made a deal with myself not to come out 'til my 18th birthday - same reasons: maybe I'm just a kid who knows nothing, maybe I'm lying to myself, maybe I'm just a tomboy, maybe I'm crazy, maybe it'll just go away. Those were the sort of doubts I had. Sounds like yours are not dissimilar.

    It didn't go away. Came out on my 18th birthday, and despite it being scary as hell, moved from there. By then I wasn't worried about those things - I just had to do something. As it is, testosterone therapy has been incredibly kind to me. My voice is deeper than my big brother's, and not feminine in the slightest. Facial hair, muscle mass, even grew a couple of inches taller, the whole nine yards. I'm now at the point where I'm completely living stealth as a guy - no one knows I was ever otherwise, and hell, even people who used to know me can't recognize me now. As for surgery, top surgery is going to be this June, and lower surgery when technology catches up.

    That said, those are fears I think a lot of have guys have; 'what if it doesn't change me enough, and I end up being obviously some kind of freak?' Don't worry about it. Transguys are very, very lucky - testosterone's exceptionally powerful, and given enough time, no one can tell a damn thing.

    To me your situation sounds pretty similar to a lot of the guys I know - again, the best thing I can recommend is finding a gender therapist, even if just online. I'm not one, but it sounds pretty clear cut from where I'm standing. I'm sorry if it is the case, but keep your head up; I'm now happier than I've ever been in my life, so sometimes fighting it isn't the best way through.

    Take your time, think about it, but if your mind is telling you to move, then listen.

    As for parents, a lot of them don't take it well. There are some horror stories, for sure. There are also parents who support their kids through it. I'm fortunate enough that my parents are now starting to accept the fact. It can take time - for me it took about two years - but a lot of guys find combining being sensitive to the fact it hurts them while balancing the fact it's something they themselves actually need, works in the long run.

    Again, throw questions if they come up.
     
  10. Deaf Not Blind

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    :slight_smile:

    you are an awesome human being.

    yeah,if i go to gender therapist, gotta find one 1st, i will have to do it after graduation or at my new school. so two months or more from now.
    *sigh* I don't want a permanent doctor file stating I'm nuts, writing down i have something worn in my mind, and that maybe its inherited wackiness. My cousin was gay, his mom kept him from telling us. My mom has had nervous breakdown once. they will lump me in with that.it scares me. i don't want people to use my issue to hurt me, to keep me from a job or something in my future.
    mom said something to me that makes me want to not tell her, it could affect her badly. i can't be selfish, tell her to make me out, and do her mental harm.

    i am trying to focus on schoolwork, but my mind is insisting i deal with my gender issues. its affecting my grades. so i am trying to concentrate my classes, and same time allow myself to explore my gender identity. my mind keeps urging me continue, my body is happy with my minor changes is my dress. i smile more, feel more myself. it makes me almost want to come out. so i try to keep my mouth shut, not ready yet, not 100% sure about this, i need to get help 1st. i plan to graduate as female, with maybe curls in my hair. make mom proud. but i want a haircut after that, not too short, just cool. i looked at myself yesterday, and thought i look stupid in longer hair. i look like a mtf! haha!

    btw, i think i will try again to post a thread about good clothes options for ftm or mtf, because to start you need to know what works for others and what to avoid and why. resources like good online stores i think can be of help.
     
  11. Mobiusponder

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    This question boggles my mind. Do you really want anyone to respond to this? I mean, hell, why can't gay people just have sex as though they're heterosexual? The questions don't seem terribly different. Only instead of gay people only being affected by this supposed barrier during relationships, transsexual people are affected ... only while living.

    @Gallaudet: Do what you have to do to feel comfortable, that's the important thing, right? :slight_smile: If you have to hide it from your mom until she can accept it, so be it. The important thing, I feel, is being comfortable on your journey to ... wherever. [This doesn't mean that you have to decide that you are trans ... or not. It means that you have to get in touch with yourself.]

    @Silenced: Indeed. Testosterone is powerful. So I've heard. :dry:
     
  12. Deaf Not Blind

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    silenced is very very lucky. grew 2 inches taller? gee! i would be my granddad's height if i did! and getting a normal guys voice, you are one lucky you know what!

    no guarantees in life. i wish i had one for me.