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Am I ftm or just gq?

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by elixir, Nov 13, 2017 at 1:29 PM.

?

am i ftm?

Poll closed Tuesday at 1:29 PM.
  1. yes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. maybe

    2 vote(s)
    100.0%
  1. elixir

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    My name's Eli, I'm 17 and I'm questioning my gender identity. Normally, I feel alright in my body so that makes me question if I have dysphoria at all or if I'm just faking everything. But recently, I put on a skirt and I don't think it was me just having a bad day - I felt unbelievably uncomfortable, and I'm not sure if I just feel more feminine when I'm happy and more masculine when I'm unhappy or if I'm actually gq. But I do think I am gq, because being called "she" and "girl" makes me feel uncomfortable, I've even started asking people to call me by "they/them" (and eli is not my birth name, it was for gender reasons). I also kind of hate toxic femininity and believe it's useless.

    I also have a really skinny, flat body which would make it really easy to transition - currently, I don't even have to bind. I'm able bodied, half white, and have the means to transition (yeah..I'm privileged). It's just confusing because when I was younger, I was fine with identifying as a girl and wore girly things but now it's changed and a lot of ftm experiences I've read say that they usually show signs when they're younger. Also, I'm not even sure if I want to grow up as an older "man"? Moreso an older androgyne person, who fluctuates.

    The point is, I'm not sure if my gender identity of being genderqueer is just because I'm in a depressed state or if it's real. I think it is real because while I know gender expression and identity are separate, I think they match for me and I've felt not like a girl for a while now- like something different. I've tried demigirl/demiboy/genderfluid/agender and everything seems a bit wrong to me, so i'm not sure.

    What am I?
     
  2. shadowalex

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    Well... no one can really tell anyone what their gender is, that is something you have to find in yourself. Really even if you have the means to transition to male it doesn't necessarily mean that it is right for you. Its your body, so do whatever you want with it. When people have body dysphoria, thats when a medical transition comes into play. You don't need to change anything to fit a box, and you don't necessarily need to fit in the gender box you were assigned at birth either. Try experimenting with clothes. Also you don't need to have known from a young age that you are trans/gq. Tons of people only find out when they are much older. Overall, take your time and experiment with gender expression. I think sometimes we rush to figure out our identities because we want to be absolutely sure. Some things I did to figure out gender stuff early on was try out different pronouns, experiment with gender expression, and imagine what my ideal self looks like. I hope this made sense and good luck :slight_smile:
     
  3. DoriaN

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    Having body dysphoria is the #1 sign of being trans, and the point to transitioning is to correct body dysphoria. If you do not feel dysphoria, my simple answer would be that you are not trans.
    This however ignores the more recent 'political trans', where anything goes in terms of belief ideology and presentation.

    As for skirts, many girls hate skirts, they're very uncomfortable to some, so I wouldn't put too much stock into that =]

    Again, you don't sound trans to me and already are missing 2 big keys (Trans people feel the way they do from birth because of innate brain wiring, it's why it's not a choice, unless you are politically trans or are following an ideology). You're 17 and even at that age some things can be confusing, so it's my belief that maybe you're just going through some hard/interesting/learned times right now and may be over thinking it.
    Remember, you're you, and while both men and women have things they dislike about themselves it doesn't define you or your heart.

    I don't personally believe in demigirl/boy/agender or other labels since to me they contradict what being transgender is (gender shifting or being fluid as opposed to fixed unchangeable and wired at birth (It's not to say they don't feel the way they do, but it goes outside of what being trans actually is/was)), it's not uncommon to feel more masculine at times vs more feminine or complacent/uncaring at others.

    My sister was a total tomboy (in highschool she cut her hair and got called a dyke and was greatly harassed by lesbians and LGB students) and it wasn't until she entered her 20's she got out of that and suddenly became much more girly (Almost stereotypically so, long nails makeup and getting dolled up among other things).

    Lots of people have anxiety, bodily anxiety, and especially at your age it's a period where you're coming into the world and things can be very depressing or heavy. Take things a day at a time, don't overthink, especially do not rush, and you don't need to be afraid to dress or feel how you like; as you said there is a difference between expression and identity and it does not sound like you identify as anything male to me.

    This last bit is personal and I don't expect any confirm/deny, but there are correlations between girls who have aspergers and having gender confusion or transmale desire. There are other cases like this as well, so if this may sound like you then do keep it in mind.

    Hope it helps, I can understand some of the distress you are feeling but to me you sound normal =]
     
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  4. Crisalide

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    Nope, according to psychologists, four things of EQUAL importance are signs of being transgender:
    1) Discomfort with primary sex characteristics
    2) Discomfort with secondary sex characteristics
    3) Social discomfort with gender assigned at birth
    4) Thinking to have the typical psychological reactions of people of the other sex.
    Not ALL four signs are required for a GD diagnosis.

    The point of psysical transition, yes, is to heal from body dysphoria. But there's also social transition that heals social dysphoria.
     
  5. DoriaN

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    Psychology as a pseudo science is non-quantifiable so stating all points are equal is opinion at best. What I said was not disharmonious to these points brought up. I think it's a potentially dangerous thing to say that anything less than a strong majority of these traits would make a person adequate of a GD analysis since there are many non-trans individuals that experience atleast two of these points and are objectively cisgender.

    It's true you do not need all 4 points, but I would say a minimum of 3 is required. The social aspect is a given, if you feel like a woman you want to be seen and treated as a woman, this is part of why one transitions so the outer reflects the inner homunculous. Again though some have a very ideological/religious/political view of trans("*") that muddles the waters and any narrative could fulfill their self created worldview.
     
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  6. Crisalide

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    Psychology is not a pseudo science .-. I agree that just one of those signs isn't enough for being transgender. Nothing - if taken alone - is enough for being transgender, only their presence together is revealing. Ex. this site says:
    (from https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria)
     
    #6 Crisalide, Nov 14, 2017 at 8:33 PM
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 8:33 PM
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  7. DoriaN

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    It's a pseudo science because it is not quantifiable. I'm not saying it does not have some merit or use, but there is subjectivity and conjecture inherently within it.

    It's like if you look at nature and reality from a materialistic or Atheistic perspective, Free Will does not exist and is a construct/illusion. Now there are different denominations of Atheistic belief, but in psychology we understand free will to be a necessity. I personally have an Atheist friend that has taken psychology and believes in free will even though it's not proven or properly explainable (Dawkins admitted it's a subject he is uncomfortable with and many of his colleagues outright say it's an illusion at best).
     
  8. emerry

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    Doria, are you a "hard scientist"? Because believe me, numbers can be manipulated to suit what the researcher meant. Really. Nothing magical about numbers. I find it interesting that people who have most to say about science and who blindly believe in "science" are those who don't know how science is made and how ambiguous this process is.

    "Free will" is just a description, just like concepts like "electron" or "liver".

    Your beliefs are not any less subjective than those of the people you oppose.

    Also, stop finally acting like you know better what other people go through. Even though I agree with a lot of your points. You look from your own little point of your own life and tell everyone else that their experiences are bullshit. Stop it. Respect that different people are not you and don't share your single life experience. How would you feel if I told you that a male is a male and no amount of estrogen he swallows changes it? Huh? This is what you are doing to others. Exactly.
     
    #8 emerry, Nov 14, 2017 at 10:22 PM
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 10:32 PM
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  9. Crisalide

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    But there's experimental psychology...
     
  10. SeulgiBunny

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    Well, i am lesbian and sometimes i'm kinda androgyne; maybe you can be flexible.
     
  11. emerry

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    As for you, elixir... I think... you seem like someone who doesn't fit neatly into the usual gender boxes.
    And whether you transition and to which extend is up to you and what makes you feel comfortable.
     
  12. DoriaN

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    You're a bit quick to monologue about me, but it's not that. Though to some extent it's true what you say, a biological male is still a biological male, as upsetting or distressing as it is. This only goes as far as a person follows biology, of which sometimes accidents happen. While there are many ways to view or perceive something, I do not see absolute truth as relative or society as post-modern.

    As a child I loved science but I would hardly call myself a scientist (Though 10 year old me studying atoms and quarks, mass, and having a periodic table of elements in my room would have heartily agreed), I only place so much stock into it and at most it is a tool not a way of life. There are many things science does not and cannot know. To be honest, I actually spend my time researching many different things since getting locked into one's own ideology is a death sentence for reason or thought. Subjects of science, history, philosophy, psychology, religion, belief and worldview to name a few areas. It's not that I do not see outside the box, infact it's the reason why I spent so much time studying, 8-16 hours a day for weeks only to burn out then repeat the process; in order to try and understand everyone's box as well as my own to the best I can.

    We are all guided by our worldviews and presuppositions, and it can be fundamentally impossible to understand or relate to one another because we have our own 'beer goggle' or lens of sorts. My efforts to talk, befriend, and understand as many facets of life are to not only edify and shape my own view but to reason and relate to others.

    My words may come out as more blunt or harsh, but in a text format this is easy to read without perceiving the tone context cotext and heart of the one speaking(typing).
    I speak my view very plainly and always state that it is my view unless it is objective fact. When I say something, it is because I am sincere and I care, otherwise I would not be here or be as forthright as I would be. I do not believe in sugar coating and on this site I see a lot of it as well as harmful encouragements where I do not find them meet. Support is not blind support, love is not relative or situational. I would rather measure twice then cut once, so for others I would say the same as I would for myself.

    When I talk, I speak from an experience and from a position where I have a foothold, it's not of ignorance except towards the individual of whom a mere paragraph or two is not nearly enough to give a credible tangible or meaningful response towards them or their character. So try as I might, I give the best most concise advice or wordage I'm able, to quickly convey a point since I myself can get very wordy or monologue-ish and can only know another so much. Everything I do is what I would want for a person to do to me, even if it sounds rough, because I value truth and honesty, and while many things are relative or subjective I do not believe reality is.

    It's easy to draw judgments about me, since no one here actually knows me, which may be my fault to some extent, but I'm not unsympathetic to others, infact it's what I have devoted my life to, I have an unconditional love for everyone. As I believe you know, I transitioned many years ago, and I have seen some transgender, some transtrender individuals come and go. While others may not agree with my views and that is fine, I speak them as humbly, honestly, truthfully, and earnestly as I can.

    As a show of good faith, here's a picture of me and I hope my expression conveys my heart and the joy I feel everyday, even when I may feel as though I 'waste' my time trying to portray my honest desire to those that may be quickly judgmental or hateful or if my textual tone seems stern or angry.

    [​IMG]

    I'm the kind of person that is constantly smiling (since 2013), always giggling, I constantly self critique and evaluate, and I've been through my share of hells and alcoholism and abuse and what have you. I don't reply to these threads because I feel like talking, I reply because I care and I'm giving my own 2 cents as I would give myself. It's tempting to just up and leave this site like so many have, but somehow I still find myself checking here despite many issues, prejudices and hatefulness.

    I know it was a little off point, but this is what's on my mind either way. Regardless I hope people have a good day. Thank you.
     
  13. elixir

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    hey everyone, OP here. I must admit I do feel a little invalidated when some of you say that you don't believe in agender/demigirl/demiboy. I also don't think I have asperger's : / ??), I do have anxiety however so sometimes it's hard to tell if my uncomfortableness is actual body dysphoria or if it's me just not being confident in my body. But I want to re-iterate that really, I haven't felt like a girl for a while now in spite all of this and I do use they/them pronouns. I feel more comfortable dressing androgynously, would rather wear a suit than a dress, and really hate being recognized as feminine and while I understand femininity and gender expression don't equal identity, for me they're important to my identity. I have to disagree with some people who say that you HAVE to have felt dysphoria when you were a kid to be trans, because... idk? I just don't think that's true.

    The point is, I don't really want to rule out anything just yet. And I don't want anyone to feel like I'm trying to traipse into their community, but I currently identify as genderqueer and while I might change my mind about that and be cis, I'm still valid. I probably should've phrased the topic rather as a discussion.

    I understand that most people feel incredible dysphoria when they are binary trans so I get that I may not be binary ftm, but I think I owe it to myself to try dressing completely masculine one day, be completely masculine, completely feminine other day, be completely feminine, both do completely confidently, and then see how it feels. I think that eliminates some feelings for me.
     
    #13 elixir, Nov 15, 2017 at 1:36 AM
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 1:36 AM
  14. shadowalex

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    I think that is a great idea. Don't worry what anyone else thinks and just do what feels right.
     
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  15. AlexJames

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    Okay i'm stepping in because quite frankly, Dorian is pissing me off. She can have her own opinion, that's fine, but at least to me she comes off as thinking her opinion is superior, right, etc. And b/c of my past that rubs me wrong and pisses me off. Dorian, i don't care what you think you're entitled to your opinion but don't force it on other people. Don't argue with them and try to prove them wrong like you've been doing here. This is supposed to be a safe place, i know that sounds dumb b/c of the news but when i joined this site i joined expecting to feel accepted and safe to be myself. Yet so many times, its been your posts that make me feel invalidated, judged, something me and everyone else on here should not be subjected to on an LGBT forum of all places.

    FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT. NGL this inspired me to speak up too. Just not as nice and neat and restrained. I'm bad with emotions. Covered in scars cause of it tbh. But the point is, thanks for saying something. I'm at the point where i hate scrolling down and seeing Dorian's name b/c her posts come off as narrow minded and invalidating and that makes me feel bad.

    PS - how you been? Noticed you changed your avatar back to Mello.

    NGL i didn't read this whole post. Its long and i'm tired. But perhaps Dorian confused your post with someone else's? I remember clearly there was a girl with aspergers who posted about gender i just can't remember who it was. You're identity and your feelings are completely valid, and i'm glad that you're here and trust us to help you figure it out and own it. Like i told Emerry/Michael, its to the point that i don't like scrolling down and seeing Dorian's screenname pop up b/c her posts always come across as being forceful, narrow minded, and invalidating and that makes me feel terrible. I question myself enough on my own (with mother dearest's help of course), i don't need a fellow community member adding to that.
     
    #15 AlexJames, Nov 15, 2017 at 4:33 AM
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 4:36 AM
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  16. DoriaN

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    I want to make it understood, that all I have done is offer my opinion, of which I made it clear when something was my opinion. You do not have to agree or even like my opinion, as I do not agree or like many other's opinions, but people need to be able to separate the reasonings and views from the character of the individual. Text is one of the poorest communication forms, so I'm sorry if I hurt people's feelings, I never run into this problem anywhere else. It is very easy for a person to project their own feelings or emotions into another's words and to miss the heart of the words entirely.

    How this whole thing played out was I gave my views and thoughts, some found in fact others in opinion, to which an individual tried to correct my view. To this individual I pointed out that psychology while having some use and good useful tool for some things, is categorically a pseudo science because by definition it is not quantifiable so there is room for interpretation and it is not dogmatic. This is not my opinion, but agree or disagree, that's up to whomever. The issue was pressed so I tried to explain and continued to give my own thoughts and feelings regarding the matter. Having a conversation.

    Then, my character was attacked because of some of my views. I tried to be peaceable about it and explained a little bit about myself, because it is only on this forum do people seem to have a very stark, contradictory, and even bewildering understanding and view regarding me as a person. The ignorance on this is understandable, but nevertheless the case regrettable. Just because two or more do not agree does not mean there is no love or care there. I feel like there has been some reading comprehension error in this topic (and it happens elsewhere), because even the most recent post talking about asperger's was myself making a blanket comment saying that as a fact there is shown to be some correlation between those that have the condition and them possibly having trans inspired feelings as a result from it; NOT ALWAYS, and I was not saying the TC was, I was just pointing it out as information to use.

    If people project their own negativity, their own unhappiness, their own anger, their own judgments, their own feelings into something I cannot help that. Best I can do is explain myself, offer a voice chat in order to have a real conversation, and let bygones be bygones.
     
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  17. emerry

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    Hard science is what I make a living with. *bitter*

    Doria - I'm quick, because I read many of your posts and this is my impression of many posts of yours. Which are quite a bit of monologue how only transsexuals' problems matter, by the way. My post is nothing compared to the length to what I am reacting. It comes off as if you were saying that if someone is distressed about gender and turns out to not take HRT and so forth - then their distress just doesn't matter. Or that if you don't do it, you shoukd shut up and what the heck are you talking about. Like Alex, your posts always move me the bad way. Maybe it is not your intention, but they do. Nearly always. It can't be a projection if I don't see it in other people's posts. Also, it is the views you articulate that are quite disturbing. No amount of caeing body language can change it. There are many people like that "I love the world, peace, but those immigrants, those are human bugs, praise the Lord!". So... however self-contradictory it is, it is a thing. I'm with Alex that this is meant to be a safe space. Many people don't have other places to talk about gender issues.

    Call me a transtrender, but I don't think gender status is what makes people friends, so I don't hang out in trans spaces offline. I don't think hanging out in trans spaces means if someone is trans or not.

    For some people the social aspects of transition are important. Like, claiming their identity. It helps them. Like me.

    Let's look at it a bit mathematically as well: we have people who have genuine gender issues and those who jumped on the bandwagon. Those who are "trending" are going to leave one way or another. Those who are not are going to have deeper issues if told that their issues don't matter. Nothing speaks after telling people their issues are stupid.

    I think I don't have anything more to say on the topic and I think I'm already repeating myself.
     
    #17 emerry, Nov 15, 2017 at 9:04 AM
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 9:06 AM
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  18. Crisalide

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    Jesus, this thread exploded...

    I'm still confused by this concept of psychology as a pseudoscience: I can't agree. But I guess neurology is not pseudoscience.
    I remember an article about brain scans (I don't know which type, so I'll say just "scans" ^.^"""") of transgender people that showed features in the brain [heaven assist me I can't phrase this sentence yet after 2 mins] more similar to the features of cisgender people of other sex rather than same sex.
    The transgender sample was both pre-hrt and with hrt and was selected with DSM criteria (~the ones I posted before). Those criteria should have been right, because results of the experiment were clear anyway.

    And, despite the many discoveries, still science can't pin down exactly, crucially and fully the cause(s) of transgenderism. So self identification and analysis (aka racking one's brain alone or with the shrink) is still central (first place) and determinant. I've read that from an article written by a researcher who's also transgender (binary mtf and post hrt).

    Last thing: identifying as transgender is not an easy path. Apart from the hardships of physical transition, the social one exposes to discrimination on work, social isolation, etc. And apart from social transition, just being out to oneself might bring bitter feelings of internalized transphobia. Who would choose all of this because it's... "cool"? Where is that cool?
     
    #18 Crisalide, Nov 15, 2017 at 11:50 PM
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 11:52 PM
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