1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

A little part of me has died inside.

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Butterflies85, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. silverhalo

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    10,698
    Likes Received:
    3,722
    Location:
    England,
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I think the easiest way (but don't get me wrong I'm not saying easy) to live with yourself is to be truthful. Not being true to yourself or listening to yourself is partly what got you into this situation. You have done so much of the hard work don't let all that pain and hurt you have already be for nothing by now not listening to yourself again.
     
  2. lemoncloud

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    US
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    A few people
    hi,
    just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. and I want to give advice that you should take the leap and live a daring and true life, but I sadly haven’t been able to take that yet myself.

    I’m glad you’re here and sharing your story!!
     
    Butterflies85 likes this.
  3. butterfly1

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    144
    Location:
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    Other
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    Butterflies-This is a thought about your OP. Sometimes a person thinks that life is good. That there is a certain comfort level in ones life. It all seems like things are going smoothly. So it seems on an outward or visible level. BUT, deep down there is a different sense. At times a person doesn't understand what those feelings are. At other times they push the feelings aside because of the comfortable life they think they have.
    The reality one thinks they have and the reality that is really deep inside of the person could be two different things. What seems like a comfortable situation may not really be one at all.
    Sometimes a person is so set in the life that they have it seems hard to imagine otherwise. The reality is, what does a person really feel at their core of being? And this is where the struggle is. A comfortable life one thinks is real vs the reality of ones core being. Sometimes one is not sure of what needs to happen.

    Too many times people don't listen to the core of their being. I can attest to that. My life has been a struggle for not listening to the core of my being. Of not recognizing the truthfulness within me.
    In reading the subsequent conversation here I think there is a sense of your core being. Maybe let your self spread your wings and fly. Isn't that what butterflies do? : )
     
    Butterflies85 likes this.
  4. Butterflies85

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    146
    Location:
    Australia
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Thank you all again for the comments. @butterfly1 your comment rang very true to my experience so thank you for the deep insight.

    I think I will follow @silverhalo 's advice and give it an honest shot. It has been just over two weeks. That is not enough time to decide it's over forever or it's back on forever. I feel like I just need to get through this busy period of our lives, take the kid free vacation together and really see if I can ignite any passion for him within me again. If I can't...well the writing is on the wall I guess.

    If there is anyone coming across this who has been in a situation like mine and either stayed or left, could you please impart some of your wisdom on what to expect and how to deal with all the hurt, pain and emotion that goes with either staying (and denying a part of you) or leaving (and hurting everyone you love)

    Thanks xx
     
    LostInDaydreams and silverhalo like this.
  5. Mabel

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    204
    Location:
    New England
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Honestly, my personal belief is that everyone is better off in the long run when living their truths. Not to say that you are better off one way or another, these things are complicated. And everyone’s situation is complex and filled with a rich history that is unique.
    My husband and I went through a period of time where he was sexually frustrated and I was having a hard time not understanding why I couldn’t just give him what he needed. It was magnified by the fact that I had another existing relationship with a woman at the time. I felt horrible. We did wade through it all. For a while I did keep trying and that was confusing. He also would misinterpret my need be held as me wanting intimacy, I would then go through with that out of guilt. We finally teased it all out and decided not to try anymore and just cuddle if we needed it. It took time and I think that’s important. There is no need to rush to a certain outcome. I think it’s important to keep talking and working through the hard stuff. You both deserve to find an outcome that works.
    I know it’s hard with kids as well. We decided to be honest with our kids about what’s going on, age appropriately. We just felt honesty was the best way so their therapist and mine are helping us with that. Neither of us liked the custody sharing at this point in their lives so we’ve decided to cohabitate and have separate rooms for now. We also know that this may not work in the future so we are up for change if needed. Solutions can be creative and change with everyone’s need. Open communication is what helps keep that all healthy.
    I can’t tell you what the right way is. It’s constantly a work in progress for us. It sounds like you guys will get there. Just know that rough patches happen and they are just part of the process. Just keep taking small steps forward and communicate as you move along, You and he will find what works best for your family. I do think it’s a matter of ignoring who you are and staying...I feel there are so many options out there without ignoring who you are. Staying honest and open will be healthier for you both in the long run. Hugs and blessings to you xo
     
    HelpLOL, Butterflies85 and silverhalo like this.
  6. scouse

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    uk
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Ahhh, my hearts with you. I think taking a little more time to sit with the relationship and your feelings is a good idea, take time to breathe. I'd suggest setting a fixed period of time, but I learnt that I'm a chronic avoider, so that's just me. Use the time to work out whether the relationship is right for you, you'll see the signs flag up good and bad, your gut shouting at you, fear in your heart. Allow them to and do your best to note them, breathe and keep putting one foot in front of the other. Sex is difficult to navigate at these times but it may be that it needs to come off the table, and if there doesn't come a point when you want to bring it back then thats a big sign in itself. I'd suggest honesty with him as you go along, painful as it may be. You can know, by the end of the period, that you tried your all and the outcome at that point, having tried it all, will be more powerful and will give you the strength to move forward be it in your relationship or in leaving.
     
  7. Woodswoman

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2017
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    214
    Location:
    Western NY
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Mabel likes this.
  8. LostInDaydreams

    Moderator Full Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2016
    Messages:
    4,300
    Likes Received:
    2,096
    Location:
    UK
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I've just caught up with your thread @Butterflies85. I'm sorry for what you're going through.

    I can completely relate to this. I could have written this. My partner is exactly same. Only shows affection when he wants sex, and assume all affections means sex is coming up. I find it so hard to say no, because I know that I would feel really rejected if it were the other way around. I found it confusing when working out where my lack of interest in sex was primarily coming from. Initially I think it was the relationship, but I think it just highlighted what was already there. I was never physically attracted to him, which I sort of knew but figured wasn't important. I can also relate to what you and @Mozart125 have said about how you feel during in sex.

    Know that you're not alone. Best wishes x
     
    Mozart125 likes this.
  9. Shell87

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    46
    Location:
    England
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I have just caught up with the thread and I too can relate.
    My husband is also the same regarding affection being a sign of sex, it is very frustrating, for both of us, if I brush him off he feels rejected if I go along with it then I too have a deep sadness that this it is not what I truly want. My husband is not a good communicator and discussions have always been one sided. My children are rather young 5 & 10 so I am trying to work through it but I feel either way I am hurting my husband.

    Personally I am just taking one day at a time, unfortunately I have no words of wisdom to share but it has been good reading the advice you have all given Butterflies85.
     
    Mozart125 likes this.
  10. HelpLOL

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Cali
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    Hey all, It really makes me sad to see so many people relating to this, and my wife used to be one. :frowning2: I wish I had some kind of advice that would work for everyone, but the truth is all of your relationships are different and what worked for mine may not work for you. That being said maybe there is something in my story that could be useful to you. It's a little hard to say exactly what my wifes position is on her sexuality, she learns pretty heavy towards liking the ladies, but it seems that there is still room for me in there. I say this because it's an important aspect that she still wants to be physically affectionate towards me. I've read many post where "affection being a sign of sex". You all already know this but it should still be pointed out that their want to be intimate/sex doesn't necessarily come from a bad place. I'm not saying you should go along with it at all, i'm just saying is he coming from a good place or a bad place. My wife and I have been in therapy for a little over a year now and this idea of believing your spouse is coming from a good place has really helped us. It seems to promote empathy, When my wife says that she wants to be with women, is she saying this to hurt/punish/be bitchy to me? Nope, she says this because there is a need in her that isn't being fulfilled. I believe her, and I trust her to know what she's feeling. I might not agree I might have my doubts, but the truth is I'm not a mind reader I can only know what she tells me and I have to feel that's coming from a good place. (this wasn't easy btw.. you have to let a lot of walls down and trust)

    I know a lot of you aren't at this spot with your spouses, I get that, we weren't always at this spot either. I just think that finding ways to trust in each other, being vulnerable with each other, and honest with each other will help this situation a ton. And this isn't about "staying together" I have no idea if my wife and I are going to being staying together forever, *i hope so*. This is about changing how you view and treat each other. Keep in mind that this is just my story, you might be a toxic relationship where they really aren't coming from a good place. What you may need to do for you might be completely different than my situation. My only other piece of advice is stay open, open mind, open heart. Be honest with yourself and if you can your spouse. Good Luck.
     
    Woodswoman likes this.
  11. LostInDaydreams

    Moderator Full Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2016
    Messages:
    4,300
    Likes Received:
    2,096
    Location:
    UK
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    From my perspective, my partner is only really thinking about himself. I might be completely wrong and this is probably not the case for your relationship, but I think it's mostly true for mine. In general, it doesn't bother me that affection is sign that sex might be coming up. The issue is my partner does not show affection unless he wants sex. In no other scenario does he kiss me, cuddle me or even compliment me. Our relationship has got to the point where I am not actually interested in sex with him, but this was true of the good times in our relationship too. When I was half interested, sex ended when my partner reached orgasm. Every single time. He has since improved on this, but now I know it's not going to work for me, I'm really not interested. But even now he expects oral sex if we've got no condoms in the house. He'd be happy to carry on regardless, but I don't let him. It's the sense of entitlement that's really unattractive.
     
  12. Ngale

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Northern Europe
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    A few people
    This is so me. I am in so much pain at the moment as I feel little disgust when my husband touches me. At the moment I don't want him to touch me and I can't be intimate with him. I dream of women and I long for a woman partner. But I have gotten married with this man I have loved and we have an amazing little daughter of soon to be two years old. And my husband is an amazing father and man. He is the kind of man every woman dreams of. He cooks, cleans, does laundry and so on. And yet, I am not able to feel love for him. I adore him for beeing so great dad and I respectc him greatly for doing so much. I love our family, but at least at the moment I don't love him. And it tears me apart as there is nothing wrong with him. He just r isn't "she".

    I am afraid of even thinking of these thougts because I have no experience with women. I do not know for certain that our problems lie with the wrong gender. Maybe I dream of women just because it is something strange and exciting...

    Why oh why I must so easily get a crush for women. Why I just can't be happy with my nearly perfect husband?
     
    Mozart125 likes this.
  13. HelpLOL

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Cali
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    Ok, lets look this. You bring up a couple of things, 1."only really thinking about himself" . That doesn't exactly mean that he's coming from a bad place... the "only" isn't good but knowing what you want and being able to express that isn't bad. What I see is that your needs aren't being met. You want affection all the time, or at least more of the time. You have to break apart your wants and his wants.. You're two different people, you know his wants and he needs to know yours. 2. He "he expects oral sex", you have to break this into his wants and his expectations.. to want oral sex.. well I think we can all agree that oral sex is a win lol. Now him feeling he is entitled to it... that just needs to be squished.. He can ask all day long but if you don't want to do it, fuck him, *no not literally lol *. The only thing he's entitled to is his wants. We would all like our spouses to fulfill all our wants, but then that takes away from there right to be their own person. Honestly it's a line that I still have trouble with.. but I'm working on it.
    So yeah, We all have wants and desires, and that's ok. If I was you I'd try being direct with him about your wants.I think of myself as being reasonably intelligent, and yes maybe i could figure out what my wife wants are, but it's just so much easier and clearer for her to express her wants directly. I'm not saying laying everything out there, but you are entitled to feel how you feel and those feelings are valid. If you do have this talk with him. Try to keep it far away from the blame game. It's not "why don't you ever.. blah blah.. " It's "I need bla bla". I need "X" to be happy, will you give me "X", Should I go else where for "X"?
    I might be completely wrong about all of this too, but this has been my experience through my wife coming out to me and about...a year and a half of marriage therapy.
     
  14. Shell87

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    46
    Location:
    England
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I hear you Help LOL, it is great that you have been to therapy and are still together. My husband won't engage with therapy, I have asked many times but he prefers to lock away his feelings and will sulk over things for long periods but never come out with what the problem actually is.

    I know that he knows that I like women but it is never spoken about, madness I know! We are happy in general but I can totally understand what the ladies are saying, it isn't about not wanting to satisfy his needs or desires, more that when I do it feels so wrong, unenjoyable and feeling ashamed of myself that I am continuing like this.
     
  15. LostInDaydreams

    Moderator Full Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2016
    Messages:
    4,300
    Likes Received:
    2,096
    Location:
    UK
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    @HelpLOL Thanks for your reply. I'm not really interested in working on this issue. I just don't think it's necessarily appropriate to look at everything as '...coming from a good place'. In some cases it could be dangerous. I suppose my previous post is influenced by my relationship in general, rather than being specifically about sex. For example, when our daughter was very young (under a year), I did all my partners ironing and made him breakfast in bed everyday, because I was at home and he was working. My partners response was complain that his shirts weren't ironed well enough, which given I'd only had about three hours sleep due to night feeds, was hard to hear. I could try to find 'the good place', but why would I want to? He encouraged our daughter to call me 'domestic staff' and 'fat cow' because...?

    I don't want more affection, to be honest. At one time I did because it's what is expected in relationships and I'd imagined that it would be different. Right now, I just want him not to touch me at all. I don't like it and it's awkward. I want to be able to go to bed and relax, not lie there anxiously wondering whether he's going to initiate sex or not.
     
  16. Shell87

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    46
    Location:
    England
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Wow LostInDayDreams that is no way to be treated, by anyone! Hugs!
     
    Woodswoman likes this.
  17. butterfly1

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    144
    Location:
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    Other
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    There is a difference between loving someone because they do things and loving someone on the most intimate level. From my perspective two people can be married but only be "roommates". The tasks of daily living are done and there is a certain amount of respect for the person who does those tasks.
    One of the human needs is to be intimate with another person. The cuddling, the hugging, the closeness of human touch. These are part of what makes one human. Social construct has dictated that a man can only be intimate by having sex. Social construct says a man can only be fulfilled by getting the physical release he gets in sex and not to be emotionally involved. Social construct doesn't allow for men to cuddle or hug in an affectionate way. Social construct views affectionate hugging and cuddling as a weakness in a man.
    Sex, in my opinion, is not a task to be done. It is the ultimate level of intimacy. The media and social construct says otherwise. Sex is the most private and closest way for two people to know each other when there is a trueness within each person.
    The reality is a person is made up of not just the physical, but also the emotional. Why it is viewed or required for a man to not allow the emotional to be expressed I don't know. Emotional vulnerability is part of the human makeup.
    It seems to be allowed for a woman to be emotional, but not a man. It is okay for a woman to cuddle and hug in an affectionate way, but not a man. Such is the mind set of some cultures.

    Touch is so very important to the way humans are made. At all levels. And the emotional is also important.

    Finding the completeness in a person is so important. Without that complete being a relationship lacks and suffers.
     
    rosemarythyme likes this.
  18. HelpLOL

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Cali
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    I got cha, and I know this is a bit non mainstream but if it's just the sex, then maybe have him find that elsewhere? He has a need he wants you to fulfill. You don't want/can't? fulfill it? Honestly this is the part of things where I just don't "get it" and I realize that. I'm basically straight, but i'm very open minded and it's hard for me to wrap my head around the repulsion. I might be completely wrong in this, and I'm perfectly ok with that, but it really feels like so much of this isn't just about the sex. It's more about the relationship not being solid. At least that's what I've seen so far in my own life. My wife is attracted to women more than men and she .. really really seems to enjoy the sex with women, and if she had to pick one i'm pretty sure it would be women only, even with this we still have fun in bed together. I might not be able to fully fulfill her wants in the bedroom, but we're open and honest about it and it's ok. I get my fulfillment, and she gets hers with her gf. *not that she isn't having fun with me, but it just isn't "hot lady love'n" as my wife says lol.
    Maybe this is the difference between bi and gay.. or maybe this is the difference in the underlying relationship... I just don't know.
     
  19. HelpLOL

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Cali
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    You know, I agree with a lot of what you say here. Social constructs are just a huge freaking pain.. we give them some kind of intrinsic value that they just don't have. We all have to realize that they are just abstract concepts and only have meaning that we give them. I'm not saying not they can't have value, just that it's not intrinsic. About the sex part.. I think a lot of that depends on the person.. I can't see having a one night stand, it just doesn't appeal to me. If i'm only interested in getting off I can handle that myself. Now my wife is a more sexual person than me and not to say she's uncaring with sex but rather she can have sex with someone she likes, but may not love. What you said about sex is perfectly valid, but it's also not the only way for people to view it.
    :/ I have to respectfully disagree a little with your last comment "finding the completeness in a person is so important" . You most likely will never find someone that can be all things to you at all times... and even if you do... are they going to grow and evolve exactly same way you do over time? is the person you fall in love with today going to be the exact same person in 5 or 10 years from now.... are you going to be the exact same person? ... probably not. So I feel it's not about "completeness", but more about shared core values. And this is where our individuality really shows. What I need to be happy, what you need, what my wife needs to be happy is unique on some level to each of us. I guess i'm just saying that this too is a social construct, the idea of "the one", "that sex has to be X". The truth for each of each of us may or may not fall into one of these constructs.
     
  20. LostInDaydreams

    Moderator Full Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2016
    Messages:
    4,300
    Likes Received:
    2,096
    Location:
    UK
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    @butterfly1 I'm not entirely sure whether or not your post was in response to mine, but if it was I wasn't trying to say household tasks were the same as sex. I was trying to illustrate what my relationship is like in general because my understanding of my partners motives are influenced by other aspects of our relationship. But you're saying perhaps he doesn't show affection in other ways because society has taught him not to? You might be right, but he's not stereotypical in other ways. From my knowledge of him, I would say part of it is just his personality and preferences. You make a good point about social construction though. Funnily enough I wrote a dissertation on constructions of masculinity in the early modern period.

    @HelpLOL Just have him find it elsewhere? I really don't think that would work. That's addressing the surface issue, not the underlying problem. I'm not repulsed, I just don't get anything out of it so I'd rather just go to sleep. It's more how I feel about myself, that I've let myself down. For me, it did initially start more as a relationship issue, which eventually resulted in me questioning my sexuality. I spent a couple years going around in circles trying to work out what was really going on. It was very confusing, but for me, the conclusion I've reached makes sense. Every journey is different, so I can only speak for myself.
     
    #40 LostInDaydreams, Dec 19, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017