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Can anxiety prevent arousal?

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by detroitlouisred, May 31, 2023.

  1. detroitlouisred

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    I’ve posted on here a few times, gotten some good feedback, but ultimately feel like I’m descending deeper into a hole with half-baked conclusions.

    I’ve lived most my life thinking I was straight but with a predilection for trans porn.

    Attempt to propose to my ex but can’t do it and very upset by it. My mind starts telling me I’m gay and I experience lots of anxiety.

    Experiment with trans women to mixed results but start dating one and form a connection and have enjoyable sexual relations. Noticeable decrease in attraction to cisgender women.

    The “gay” thing rears its head. I start thinking that I’m lying to myself with the trans woman I’m seeing.

    I start having anxiety again regularly, especially around “attractive” men. My thoughts become preoccupied with men, thinking I’m gay and that I’m lying to myself about trans women.

    I start to look at gay porn to see what’ll happen. Nothing. Mostly like a frightened turtle down there. My fantasies do involve some level of homosexual sex as they tend to be about the trans woman I’m seeing and she’s non-op. Admittedly, there’s definitely not straight at all sex acts I enjoy. However, when I fantasize about the trans woman I’m seeing men will pop up and this usually kills my arousal but sometimes not and it’s hard to tell what’s actually getting me aroused. If I try to focus exclusively on men, romantically or sexually, I don’t get aroused.

    But I keep thinking of men, experiencing anxiety when seeing attractive men and having “gay” thoughts. Recently while watching gay porn, although not physically aroused, I caught myself thinking “that guy is hot,” which had never happened before.

    I can’t make sense of it. It’s almost as if everything knows I’m gay but my penis. It’s making me lose my mind. I can’t help thinking that even if I was super in denial about being gay, I’d still get aroused by gay fantasies and porn…

    My question: Can anxiety prevent arousal, Like to the point where there’s none at all?

    Has anyone experienced this?
     
  2. Rayland

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    The short answer is yes.

    The long answer is that it's all very complex and is all connected. OCD, anxiety and so on.

    Anxiety can be described as feelings of worry, nervousness or unease about something with an uncertain outcome. Stress and anxiety may cause your sex drive to spike, or it may cause your sex drive to go down, because you are feeling upset and you are consumed with worry. It is completely understandable that you may not want to get physical or you are experiencing a busy brain or brain fog. It may surprise you to hear that your genitals are not your main sex organ, your brain is! Your brain plays a huge role in your ability to feel aroused. If you are finding it difficult to relax, it will be difficult to get aroused.

    Try to speak with your partner about how you are feeling. A problem shared is a problem halved. Encouraging understanding between you and your partner will be helpful for working through the sexual issues you are having.

    It is completely normal to feel stressed or anxious during this time. It is normal to not feel like having sex all of the time.

    Beside therapy, if your sex drive remains low and you are having issues with erectile function for a couple of weeks, you should visit your doctor. Your doctor can carry out a physical examination to help understands the causes of your erectile dysfunction and set up a treatment plan for the next steps.
     
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  3. detroitlouisred

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    @Rayland thank you for your input.

    The fact of the matter is that everything works fine it’s just that my physical response doesn’t seem to line up with what’s going on in my head.

    I’ve been trying to be brutally honest with myself as of late and it seems as though what “attracts” me is shifting. Whereas before I did not feel attracted to men, it now seems undeniable that I am, at least on some level.

    I still get this anxiety out in public when I encounter men but when I’m alone (driving, working, etc.) these thoughts don’t seem to bother me so much. The fact of the matter is, if I catch myself thinking of anyone, the majority of the time it is men. If the thoughts become sexual or romantic in nature, I do feel some level of anxiety or discomfort. The real anxiety starts when I catch myself having these thoughts and think, “I’m gay.” But at the end of the day it’s getting harder to deny that I’m gay or at least attracted to men on some level.

    On the other hand, this leads to more thoughts about how I’m lying to myself about the trans woman I’m seeing. This does cause me quite a bit of anxiety at times. However if I relax and think of her, sometimes something as simple as holding hands, I feel myself getting aroused.

    Anymore I don’t really feel attracted to cisgender women nor am I aroused by them so this is no longer an argument about straight vs gay or even technically bi vs gay. Anymore the most I feel about cisgender women is occasional anxiety while thinking about how I should be attracted to them/ why am I not attracted to them/ I used to be attracted to them. IM SPEAKING STRICTLY IN A SEXUAL SENSE AND DO NOT MEAN TO OFFEND TRANS WOMEN AS I BELIEVE THEY ARE INDEED WOMEN.

    Ultimately, this makes me doubt this being OCD (HOCD) there is a very real arousal associated to “technically” homosexual sex acts albeit associated with trans women. I know about false attraction and have read about how some lose their attraction to the opposite sex while experiencing OCD (HOCD), but to me this just seems like a slippery slope that keep me in denial.

    Here’s the rub, anytime I latch onto a gay thought or feeling I’m not aroused. This applies to thoughts, fantasies, pics, and porn. I know porn is not a great indicator or sexual orientation but it just seems that even if I was seriously in denial about being gay that I would still be getting physically aroused by gay porn. Even in the comfort and privacy of my own home, I still am not aroused.

    I know arousal isn’t everything in terms of attraction. I also know that even if you are aroused by something it doesn’t mean it’s the foundation of a Disney love story. But I can’t make sense of how I have all of these indicators of being gay but no arousal associated with them.

    Admittedly I do have some hang ups about being gay that I’m working through in therapy but I just can’t seem to make the leap to acceptance, especially with this whole arousal thing. I don’t want to live a lie. I don’t want to trap the trans woman I’ve been seeing or be with her simply out of fear. There are other reasons I’m attracted to her beyond the physical btw. But it just seems as though that I’m more gay than anything else but my penis hasn’t arrived to the party yet. I suppose I’m just waiting for this watershed moment when everything comes into alignment but until then I’ll be confused and questioning.
     
  4. Rayland

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    One thing with OCD is that it makes you be anxious and question and test. And even, when people say to you that you have OCD or that you don't have it and are gay, then you won't believe what anyone says and frankly speaking you have many of the same traits with others who have OCD on here. I've read through all of these posts, which is why I'm saying that.

    Again HOCD is not a scientific term, it's all just OCD.

    The main thing is to communicate with your partner and maybe pursue an open relationship, if it would be more beneficial for you both.

    Edit: you can also be gay while having OCD, but this is what you must work through.

    Maybe @quebec or @Chip can give way better opinions on it, than I can, since they have dealt with it all longer from me and are more experienced and know more of what you're going through.
     
    #4 Rayland, Jun 1, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2023
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  5. detroitlouisred

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    I see what you’re saying and understand the frustration of not knowing, which is part of the OCD if that is actually what’s happening with me.

    I’ll talk to my therapist again and maybe reach out to a specialist.

    I have communicated to some degree with the person I’ve been dating about what’s going on. Not necessarily the severity but the gist and she is interested in still dating but keeping it somewhat light as well as keeping her options open if someone else were to come along. Selfishly I don’t love this idea but I know that it is what’s fair and in her best interest as I don’t know how this will turn out.

    I just can’t get over this arousal thing for the life of me. It’s so confusing. I’m trying to avoid masturbating and pornography. Even still, I have the urge to test. In a weird way it’s like I get mentally stimulated by the gay pornography even though I’m not physically aroused, which is odd because I’ve pretty gone most of my life fine without it.

    I know no one on here can give me anything definitive but I’d love input from @Chip and/or @quebec if they feel up to doing so.
     
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  6. quebec

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    detroitlouisred.....Hello! You asked for some input so I'll do my best. First some background. I suffer with diagnosed OCD. I am under the care of both a physician and a therapist to help me deal with the OCD. My particular "flavor" of OCD results in forcing me to count things. That doesn't sound too serious, but I promise you it has in the past caused terrible depression when it was uncontrolled. OCD "hijacks" your brain forcing you to do things that you would not normally do and then quite often makes you do them over and over. It can interrupt your life to the point where you can't accomplish any thing but what the OCD is making you do. An example: many business, schools, etc. have those white ceiling tiles with lots of small holes in them. Can you imagine what it would be like to be compelled to count the holes...in every tile...over and over? And if you feel like you might have missed just one...then you have to start all over again. Things like that and many others just as frustrating and useless things as well. There are medications that help control OCD...I take them! :old_smile: I have also worked with my therapist to find ways to stop the OCD from taking control of my brain...to be "present" enough so that it doesn't "sneak up" on me and start the counting. That is kind of how it starts with me...I'm doing ok and then before I realize it, the OCD has started. So enough about my OCD. Something about OCD in general...OCD lies to you! It makes you think things that are not true! You have been thinking that you may have a type of OCD that is related to sexuality. First of all it's important to understand that there really is only one kind of OCD...just plain old OCD! However, OCD can and does manifest or let's say affect people in different ways and it's possible that one of those ways could be in a unusual attention to sexuality. Then thing to remember that is critically important is that OCD can not change anyones' sexuality. OCD can not make someone who is straight turn gay or the other way around...it just can not do that. It can lie to your and make you think all kinds of things that are not true...but actually change your sexuality...NOPE! Can it affect your arousal? I don't know that for sure, especially as there are many things that can affect arousal. Just worrying about whether you can or can't be aroused can actually affect your arousal! :old_frown: I've always thought that it's sad that men don't have a little more control over what happens down there! :old_big_grin: Anyway...Iv'e said enough for the moment. If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask and I'll do my best to share what I've been through and how I've dealt with OCD.
    .....David :gay _pride_flag:
     
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  7. detroitlouisred

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    @quebec I very much appreciate your input! I’m sorry to hear about your struggles but glad to hear you’ve found ways to cope.

    Before now I never would have contemplated having OCD but I have always been a dweller and one who definitely goes through phases of low grade “obsessions” such listening to the same couple of songs over and over, watching the same series over and over, and have a taste for a certain food and eating it over and over. Now all of these are pretty innocuous and are not OCD but my point is that I definitely have a history of preoccupation.

    I won’t go into everything on here are my threads are available but I’ve been going through a bit of a crisis regarding my sexuality. The thing I can’t figure out is that my mind keeps telling me I’m gay and producing certain thoughts and images. However, none of these things arouse me.

    Again, can look to the above or my other postings but I do have an interest, attraction, and, albeit short, history in/to/with trans women.

    I just can’t figure out why my mind is telling me one thing but my body another when I explore that with pornography, which I know is not super reliable, or fantasies in my mind. But it’s all I can think about! At times it’s not even like an anxious ridden thing, it’s just there so I think, “You’re obviously gay.” However, when I confront it head on, no arousal.
     
  8. quebec

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    detroitlouisred.....The human mind/body can be pretty confusing! :old_frown: My best advice is some serious time with a therapist. I would suggest finding a therapist that lists working with the LGBTQ Community as part of their practice. I know that finding a good therapist was one of the best decisions that I've ever made! A good therapist can help you find the answers to a lot of questions - sometimes to questions that you didn't even know that you had at first. I find it odd that if we are seriously injured, we don't hesitate to go see a doctor, but when we are having emotional problems we hesitate to see a therapist! :old_rolleyes:
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
  9. detroitlouisred

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    I have been working with a therapist for a few months. She’s not an OCD specialist nor is she specifically focused on LGBTQ+ but she has worked with many in the community.
    I’ve also been on medication for anxiety for awhile now. I know that neither of these things will give me an answer or “solve” my problem, only I can come to a conclusion. The therapy does seem to help, if only just because I’m talking about it.

    I’ve also been talking to a select few loved ones about this. Again, I know they can’t give me answers. Ultimately, they just want me to be happy.

    Both my therapist and sister-in-law have commented that I seem to be punishing myself over/with all of this. My therapist also thinks I’m way too focused on what arouses me in trying to find my answer. Both have suggested just being and not seeking an answer or label, but I can’t seem to let myself do this.

    Anymore I feel that I’m gay and so afraid of it or possibly so afraid of being judged that I can’t handle it. But I can’t explain the arousal thing and that sends me into a tailspin. Maybe it’s just denial or internalized homophobia? I don’t know exactly how those work. Maybe it is OCD? I don’t know.
     
  10. quebec

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    detroitlouisred.....I'm glad that you are seeing a therapist and also that you are taking some meds. However, I have some questions. Taking into account that I'm not a doctor or a therapist... First, have you actually been diagnosed with OCD? If not, that would be a very good step to take. If it turns out that after being evaluated by a licensed professional who is qualified to diagnose OCD, you find out that you do not have OCD, then the path you would take to work through the problems you are having would be different. If you do get a diagnosis of OCD, then there are specific medications that have been proven to be helpful with OCD. Not just anxiety meds, which can help, but meds that are generally prescribed for OCD. I currently take two medications for my OCD and they have been a tremendous help. I don't think I should share what they are here as the job of suggesting and prescribing medications should be up to a medical professional. Second, If you are diagnosed with OCD, then your therapist should be working with you to develop ways to handle the OCD. For instance, in the case of my OCD the counting would most often start without me being aware of it. Then when I realized it was happening I would usually become very angry. I would be driving down the road and suddenly realize that I was counting 245, 246, 247, etc. I was actually counting the stripes between the lanes in the highway. I would then become furious at myself, at the OCD...just generally very angry. Of course my anger just made everything worse. My therapist worked with me to help control that anger, to find ways to let that anger "wash" through me and on out so that I didn't feel like the OCD was controlling me. It seems simple, but boy, was it hard at first. I was a very angry person when it came to the OCD as I felt it was controlling me and I really hated that feeling. There were other things that he had me do...things that he taught me to do to help work through not only the anger, but also to help avoid having the OCD even start in the first place. Those are the kind of things that a therapist who is helping someone with OCD would often be doing. Third, If it should turn out, after evaluation, that you do not have OCD, then your therapist would most likely take a different path to helping you with the problems that you have shared with us here. As much as we want to help you... and we will do everything that we can...the only serious way that you will be able to work out all of the confusion that you are facing is by working with a good therapist who understands LGBTQ situations and is also qualified to diagnose OCD. Detroit.....we are glad that you found us here on Empty Closets and please keep us updated on how this continues to work out. Remember that we do care!
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
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  11. detroitlouisred

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    Thank you again for your input, David. So as I've stated before, I am in therapy but have yet to be evaluated for or diagnosed with OCD. A number of years ago I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder, which is why I am taking the meds I am on. But as you said, neither the therapy nor meds will be successful without a diagnosis of OCD if that is indeed what is going on. I have mentioned the idea of OCD to my therapist. She did not simply laugh it off but I don't think she acknowledges it as a potential option as she was unaware of people having OCD focused on their sexuality. Again, she is not an OCD specialist so this makes sense.

    When I began this round of therapy, I explained the "crisis" I was having regarding my sexuality and the events leading up to it. This led to us exploring the demise of my previous relationship with a cisgender woman and what she identified as problematic/compulsive masturbation and pornography use. However, during this time I also began to "accept" my attraction to trans women as a reality and not just some porno kink. I explored this with some anxiety but ultimately that abated and I actually ended up meeting someone I liked beyond sexual activity. There were a couple of months of calm. Maybe it was looking at things through rose-colored lenses or the "gay" pink cloud, although I know it's not gay to be with trans women as they are women. But then suddenly a couple of months ago, the anxiety and questioning came back again. My therapist and I are now working from a place of thinking that I am/could be gay and exploring why I am so distressed by it. Again, I understand that if I have OCD this probably won't be terribly helpful.

    At various times throughout my questioning, I have scoured this forum and read extensively. In some ways, it does seem as though my path is following many of those who have posted here about discovering their homosexuality. The main difference would be that most posting on here doesn't report an attraction to trans women or the use of trans pornography. But like many others, I have noticed that my attraction to or ability to be aroused by cisgender women has all but disappeared. This is one of the main reasons why I question having OCD. It was something I considered before but I cannot deny that my attraction to trans women does have a connection to genitals and the performing of certain sex acts, again with a trans woman so therefore with a woman, but homosexual in the technical sense nonetheless.

    The main reason why I asked this question is the fact that a couple of members on here mentioned OCD regarding my situation and I do have a lack of arousal when it comes to interactions, photos, and fantasies with men and gay pornography. However, when I engage in sexual activities with the trans woman I'm dating, fantasies of her, or trans pornography, my mind also produces thoughts of men. On some level, these definitely feel intrusive. This is especially true when they occur out in public or at work, particularly when they are produced in response to people it is inappropriate to have these thoughts.

    However, I could see how this could simply be me just having gay thoughts because I am a gay man. The anxiety and stress could be due to the fact that I keep trying to perceive myself and live my life as someone who is simply attracted to trans women. It could be that my mind is trying to tell me where my true attractions lie but I am still in denial and too afraid to accept this. It seems as though with each passing day I become more and more gay. I just can't explain the arousal thing but this would make just as much, perhaps even more, sense as me having OCD.

    I have an appointment with my therapist this week. I'll bring up the OCD thing again. I have just started looking for a specialist but haven't found one who takes my insurance.
     
    #11 detroitlouisred, Jun 3, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2023
  12. quebec

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    Detroitlouisred.....It seems to me that being evaluated for OCD would be a good step. It would either eliminate or affirm the presence of OCD and that would help you know what steps to take from there.
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
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  13. Rayland

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    I fully agree with David. I was thinking about it and thought it would be good if you'd try to get OCD evaluation, because then you can tell us about the diagnosis and you would know what kind of help you need and as well us would know how to advise you further. Right now we only know you have anxiety, but that can come from many things and other things are only speculations. We aren't doctors or OCD specialists, so we can't give you a diagnosis or further advise to help you.
     
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  14. Tightrope

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    It takes health providers to make these diagnoses and if you have angst about this, please see a health provider who specializes in mental health. Please find one that has your back - you will be able to tell fairly soon. Also, they might give slightly different diagnoses since some of the symptoms overlap.

    I have a new therapist. I've gone a handful of times and it's working out. He is really zeroing in on trauma. Long term trauma. I also have the psych P.A. who prescribes my psychotropic drugs. He has me diagnosed with MDD. The last therapist - the one I didn't like - also had me diagnosed with MDD.

    I recently went to my regular doctor for a check up and they're switching their on-line health portal. We discussed this and I saw the diagnoses on it and his mental health related diagnosis is OCD. I asked him about it. He said that it's nothing to be ashamed of and he says it's fairly common and that he even sees it in some of his successful professional clients who are very driven. Somehow, this general MD focused on that one. I told him that I would just laugh it off since it isn't the first time I've heard it. Friends and acquaintances have been telling me I'm OCD for a long time.

    Back to one of your original questions, I do think anxiety can prevent arousal. If you're alone and want to get aroused but some big things are weighing on you, you could find that it's harder to get aroused. If you're with someone and something about them makes you uncomfortable or intimidated, it can also happen. Since famous people's lives are up for everyone to read about, Rock Hudson noted that some people he had sex with were intimidated by him and couldn't perform. He had that happen more than once. I remember that. I read it somewhere. So, it's normal for a lot of things that can affect your mental state to change how you function sexually.

    But it can be changed and helped along. I'm guessing the OCD can be a big blanket and can also pick up sexuality. If you feel angst, please consult a mental health professional. It's better to do it sooner than later. They should also be able to help you with any feelings of shame if that's what they identify and that's what you feel.
     
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  15. detroitlouisred

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    @Rayland Agreed and that is something I will be looking into. However, if I am being completely honest, I have noticed what I would call a shift in my attraction since making this post. It's getting harder and harder to deny that I am not attracted to men. The arousal thing is still an issue though. Additionally, my attraction to trans women seems to be waning as well. Despite this, I think I'll still seek an evaluation of OCD just to rule it out, but on some very real level, it seems that I am very much at the tail end of the bargaining stage of the grief process of accepting my sexuality. Even without an OCD diagnosis, I have to deal with the anxiety this is causing me because it is quite significant and very often painful.

    @Tightrope to your point about arousal, I do think the anxiety I am experiencing has a lot to do with what's going on. As stated above, I am beginning to notice changes in who I seem to be attracted to and this causes a lot of anxiety. My experiments with porn, although I know they're not reliable, have become futile. I think I'm stressing myself out with them and anymore regardless of what I watch, I am not aroused. The need to do this could be OCD related or simply the desperate cries of someone so deeply trying to fight and prove something that will eventually prove itself. The same goes for me fantasizing in my mind. I feel so anxious that my mind is a blur and if there is actual arousal that occurs, which is now few and far between, I honestly cannot tell what triggered it. Again, the fact that I do this more than a few times throughout the day could be OCD related but I also feel I am just trying to prove something to myself.

    Given everything that is going on I ultimately believe that the fact that I am gay is really beginning to reveal itself and I am having a really hard time accepting it. This applies generally but also because I have been dating a trans woman who I do like and enjoy spending time with but on some level, I think I realize that our relationship has an expiration date. This is causing me a tremendous amount of anxiety because I think on some level I have convinced myself that I can still be with her if I am gay, but it feels like I slowly realizing that's probably not the case.

    Everyone I have opened up to about this has been so supportive and just wants me to be happy, especially the person I have been seeing. Some have suggested that I just go with the flow, and not worry about labels, something I wish I could do, but I think that the mere fact I am having so much trouble and anxiety surrounding all of this is significant and needs to be looked at.
     
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  16. detroitlouisred

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    Regardless of whether it's OCD or I am simply struggling to come to terms with my homosexuality, I recognize that I should not be feeling the way I do. Seeing as I am already on medication and in therapy, I honestly don't know what to do anymore.
     
  17. Rayland

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    Like everyone are telling you seek out the OCD specialist and be fully honest with them and let them help you, otherwise it can only get worse, if it's left undiagnosed. You're in therapy, but the person isn't specialized in OCD field.

    There are ways to deal with anxiety. I have high functioning anxiety myself and my intrusive thoughts are not related to OCD, but trauma. I've found therapy tremendously helpful.

    You are taking medication for anxiety, but there is also other ways to help you with it, like meditation and constantly working on yourself. My therapist said I've for example learned to live with my adhd. You can learn to live with OCD and anxiety as well. Two different things, but you get what I mean.

    Ask your therapist how to deal with your anxiety beside medication, as well, so you can manage it better.

    Deal with figuring out the OCD first, then you can move forward. Go and see your GP, maybe they can direct you to a specialist who would take your insurance.

    You control yourself. Don't let anxiety and OCD be something that keep you from being happy. Get proper help.
     
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  18. detroitlouisred

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    @Rayland I totally get you. My anxiety hits pretty hardcore in the morning when I first wake up but as I get into the work day things seem to level off. However, there are some triggers at work so that can play a role temporarily. Afternoons are hit and miss. Obviously when I’m not occupied, for instance like no on the weekends, my anxiety spirals. In these instances I try breathing exercises and meditation but they rarely totally rid the anxiety but do help to calm me down.

    There was a time when the medication I’m on seemed to help but that’s not really the case anymore. Obviously if it is ocd it would work.

    I’ve made an appointment to be evaluated for OCD on Wednesday. Until then I just have to try to manage to stay calm.
     
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  19. quebec

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    Detriotlouisred.....You said: " it seems that I am very much at the tail end of the bargaining stage of the grief process of accepting my sexuality." Dealing with grief is very difficult. Accepting that you are gay also means that you are "giving up" being straight. For many people that results in a feeling of loss...a feeling of being "cast adrift" and not knowing where you are at or where you are going. That feeling of loss easily turns into grief. Before I came out I was fighting depression, self-hate and grief constantly. I was so glad that I had the folks here on EC to help me through those first months and then later on a great therapist. It sounds like you have heard of the "Stages of Grief". My therapist shared them with me and they really did help. Just in case, here they are:

    The Stages of Grief:

    Stage One: Denial

    This first stage happens immediately. People can express themselves as "shocked." "I had no idea..." "This can't be."
    Yourself: "I'm not really gay." "I don't dislike girls." "I've never been with a guy." "I don't think I'm gay." "I will feel straight if I have sex with a girl." "I've never had sex with a guy, therefore, I'm not technically gay."
    Parent: "No you're not." "No one in the family is gay, and you're not either." "You don't act gay." "You don't know what you're feeling." "Have sex with a girl and you won't feel that way anymore." "You're confused." "You need therapy."
    Wife: "You're not the man I married." "You're stressed/tired/angry." "You're in mid-life crisis." "You're too manly to be gay." "Let's get therapy; I know you're not gay." "You have sex with me, thus, you're not really gay."

    Stage Two: Anger
    The second stage is a downer for those coming out. Once the trauma of coming out is over, and you think the coast is clear, the parent/wife enters the anger stage. How much anger, when they enter, and when they get over this stage is dependent of many factors.
    Yourself: "I hate myself." "I hate being gay." "I hate gays." "Why the fuck me?" "What did I do to deserve these feelings?" "Jesus! Why can't I love her?" "I want to be like X!!!" "I'm such a loser."
    Parents: "You're not sleeping with X are you?" "Don't you know there are dangerous diseases out there?" "Can't you just be normal?" "For God's sake, don't tell anyone else!" "Why did you tell me that?" "Don't come crying to me when you're life gets screwed up!" "Why didn't you tell me this before?" "Didn't you trust me until now?" "Would you have EVER told me this? (if outed)"
    Wife: "Why did you marry me?" "You lied to me!" "Why did you fool me?" "What did I do to deserve this!?" "You'll pay for this, mister!" "So, are you sleeping with X,Y, and Z?" "Who else knows?! Am I the laughing stock of town?" "You asshole." "Fuck you - oh no, you'd like that, wouldn't you?" "Couldn't you have figured this out before NOW?"

    Stage Three: Bargaining
    Bargaining is usually a welcomed respite from the Anger Stage. But, it can be equally annoying.
    Self: "I bet if I have sex with a girl, I'll find out I'm hetero." "Maybe I can get married, and have a fuck-buddy on the side that no one knows about but me. What would be the harm in that?" "If I don't tell anyone, then it's not really real." "God, if I promise to be good, will you make me straight?" "God, please make me straight. I'll do anything." "I bet if I lose weight and tone up, I'll be more attractive to girls and then I won't like guys." "I bet this will pass when I'm 20, no 30, maybe when I'm 40?"
    Parents: "Let me set you up with X. If you only had a girlfriend, you'd forget about guys." "God, I'll do anything if you make him straight." "I"ll buy you a car if you don't date boys." "Maybe we were too strict. If we relax our rules, will it make you feel more comfortable and feel like dating girls?" "I bet if you had more confidence in yourself, you'd feel more comfortable with girls. I'll set you up with a counselor/prostitute/assertiveness training class."
    Wife: "I"ll forgive you if you don't divorce me." "You can have your discrete fun on the side as long as it's safe and you don't leave me." "Look, honey, I bought this new lingerie. Isn't it sexy?" "If I lost weight/had a face lift/tummy tuck would you find me sexy again?" "Dear God, get him through this midlife crisis. I'll do anything." "We can have separate bedrooms and separate lives, just don't leave me alone."

    Stage Four: Depression
    This stage occurs when the preceding stages did not alleviate the grief, and the loss is not yet accepted. it is the brain's last-ditch attempt at not accepting the truth.
    Self: "I'm screwed." "I hate myself." "I'm not good at anything. I can't even make a baby." "Why am I here? What's the purpose of my life?" "My future is empty and hopeless." "I can't compete in the cut-throat gay world, I'm just not up for it." "I've ruined everyone's life around me, including my own." "I know I am going to burn in hell." "I want to die."
    Parents: "He's hell-bent on being gay. I'm helpless." "I guess if he wants to ruin his life and make me miserable, he's going to." "I give up." "I am so sad that I can not make him straight or be interested in girls." "I don't know what else I can say or do." "Why did I have children? Such heartache." "I can't imagine a future without grandchildren. What's the point of living?" "I thought I did better than that. Where did I go wrong?"
    Wife: "My life is over." "I will never love again." "I will never trust again." "How on earth will I cope?" "My future is empty." "I now feel nothing - for anyone." "I want to die."

    Stage Five: Acceptance
    At long last, we reach the final stage of acceptance. If achieved, depression lifts and anger subsides. This doesn't mean that we forget the sadness and anger, it means we don't feel it anymore.
    Self: "I'm gay." "I'm gay, and that's fine. Now what?" "I'm proud of who I am and the person I've become." "It's alright not to marry and have kids. I can contribute to society anyway - in other ways." "I am more than gay. My sexuality does not define me. I am 3-dimensional and have interests." "It's time to find a boyfriend." "It's time to get on with life."
    Parent: "OK, he's gay. I hope he finds someone who makes him happy,." "Have you found a boyfriend yet?" "How are you doing - really?" "I love you." "Be sure to tell X [boyfriend] hi for me." "I want you and X to come for dinner." "Tell me all about him." "I'm so proud of you." "I'm so happy for you." "You know what? His being gay isn't that bad. It's not like he's a murderer or dying or anything. Now, THAT would be tragic."
    Wife: "He's gay, but he's still a good person/father." "I need to let go." "I need to have a life." "Life goes on." "It's OK, we'll get through this together." "This is not a reflection on me - this is his issue." "That's the way he is; he needs to be happy." "I wish he'd figured this out before we got married, but sometimes it doesn't happen that way." "OK, my husband is gay. That's a reality. Now, what do I do?"

    Finally...
    One thing to remember - or recognize - is that frequently we come out to others when we have gotten to Stage 5: Acceptance. And, sometimes this has taken us years to do. Thus, we can't be impatient with those closest to us who just found out. It would be great if we could rush them through to the Acceptance stage, but we can't. The best we can do is anticipate these phases and help them adjust to this information, just like we adjusted.

    Lastly, this isn't advocating coming out. Many men get to the Acceptance stage, and do not share this information with anyone or perhaps just a few people who are very close. And, there can be compelling reasons for doing so. Thus, this piece is not meant to get everyone to Stage 5 and then bring as many of your closest people around you through it too. Rather, it's offered as one view point on how people deal with what they perceive as a "loss" and if it's helpful in your situation, then it was worth writing down.

    I know that this was long and perhaps a little confusing...but I do hope it helps as you consider whether or not you actually are gay. We are here for you so don't hesitate to ask questions or just plain ol' vent if you need to! :old_big_grin:
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
  20. detroitlouisred

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    @quebec Like I've said, I spent a lot of time reading this forum, almost compulsively so, trying to seek understanding and that's where I came across the stages of grief associated with one's acceptance of their sexuality. On some level, I have no doubt of not being 100% straight if only due to the sexual preferences/acts I have associated with trans women, but at the end of the day they are still women. That all made sense, fit, and felt comfortable for a while. However, as stated above, my mind kept telling me otherwise without any real evidence to the contrary. Nowadays, I honestly don't know where I stand. What I do know is that the way I think about it and the level of discomfort it causes me is not natural, or at least not what I should be feeling. I don't know if that is OCD or just extreme anxiety due to a lack of acceptance and denial. If it is not the OCD, then I'd surmise that odds are I probably am gayer than I'd like to think or originally thought and this is causing me extreme anxiety. But here again, we have the lack of arousal. This in turn makes me cling to my trans attraction even more but objectively I know that doesn't mean I couldn't be gay. Therefore, the bargaining stage.

    At times it feels as though I can see the written on the wall but I just won't allow myself the grace to figure it out. This is mostly rooted in there being conflicting thoughts, feelings, and experiences going on during all of this. As best as I can, I'm trying to see this from all sides so I can deal with things as they come.
     
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