What am I doing wrong? Why don't people like me?

I'm sorry that really sucks and I don't understand it either. You are a great guy who is caring and trying to meet people and I feel bad it's not working lately. I'm so glad for your friends and parents back home but of course you want friends nearby too so you're very normal. You're putting yourself out there and others are being rude. People look away from me too and it can feel like they disliked me but who knows what was going on in their mind. Probably nothing about me. I feel so sad for you as a child for not smiling or feeling safe, I'm so sorry you deserved to be happy and loved like anyone. That shit really screws us up! What was going on with your other family, grandparents or someone else to care about you? It's in the past I guess, but still not right and not your fault. Apparently we have to do all "the work" to heal and get better if we want to, if we can conjure up enough energy and will. Even if I'm super confident and happy, doesn't mean others will like me. Do friends back home know anyone near you? One day at a time I guess and sending hugs

 

Also forgot to say, you're not a bad person underneath or anywhere. You are good and worthy of good things! Feeling fear from someone smiling at you sounds like suspecting they will do you harm or something like that, a suspicious feeling based on past bad experiences. I hope you can think it's their loss if they don't want to chat. What about that gay cafe/shop you mentioned before or the elderly will surely enjoy your kindness. How about volunteering at an animal shelter or helping the needy?

 

Being nervous doesn't make you "a bad person", I don't know why you keep making such harsh judgements of yourself. It just sounds like your problem is that there's a disparity between how you perceive yourself (good, friendly, kind) and how others perceive you ("angry", "nervous", "grumpy").

It's not surprising that other people perceive you inaccurately, given that they're basing their judgement of you on external factors like your facial expression, how much (or how little) you speak, how they imagine you're perceiving them, etc. They can't see past your "angry" expression and into your well-intentioned mind. Most people are not secure enough themselves not to be intimidated by another person's visible "disapproval".

So I think your basic problem is anxiety, perpetuated by fixed false beliefs like "people are generally untrustworthy", "I am unlikeable", and "I don't deserve affection or love" (or even "having an anxiety problem makes me a bad person").

I can't recall to what extent you've tried therapy, especially CBT? Do you ever write down these thoughts and try to neutralise them or provide alternative explanations? I'd imagine your perceptions of social interactions are extremely subjective and often inaccurate. Have you tried to see things more objectively, or even asked a third-party to witness a social interaction so you can compare your impressions of it with theirs? I'd imagine there would often be a huge disparity.

 

I agree with @Colm that CBT could be really helpful ( I know it's not always easy to get help in different parts of the world though). CBT really helped me with my interactions with people - one excersise I had in CBT was they filmed me talking with another therapist that I hadn't met before and showed me the video - I couldn't believe how nervous and awkward I looked! My body language etc. People felt awkward talking to me because I gave off such a strong impression that I didn't want to be talked to! And I had no idea I was doing it - I was desperate for human interaction but felt everyone was ignoring and avoiding me... Was a lightbulb moment for me!

 

I'm sure it's different for everyone but in my case I was very hunched over, kind of turned away, like I was trying to hide from the person. Very tense and hunched - like in a protective pose - and no eye contact. I still find eye contact difficult because I find it hard to know how much is normal!
But just seeing myself like that I guess brought those unconscious things to my attention so I could remind myself not to do it - in fact it really shocked me because I thought I was hiding my anxiety quite well. I can still remember how "unwell" I looked (this was 15+ years ago!).
I still find it hard to ask people about themselves (I feel like I'm prying) and it can come off like I don't care or I only talk about myself - I'm still working on that - and as I said I'm still not sure how much eye contact is "normal"! I think it's a matter of trying to feel what is "too little" and what is "too much"...
Do you have friends you could ask about your mannerisms/body language? If you could explain that you must be unconsciously giving off "vibes" ("angry energy" or whatever) and you'd like some help recognizing it?
Of course they'd have to be people you trust so it doesn't feel like they're criticizing or attacking you..?

 

And as others have said - you're certainly not a "bad person" underneath - you may just have some habits that you've used as safety behaviors - like I would hunch over and almost try to hide because I was scared people would see how bad my anxiety was (and think I'm "crazy" I guess) - like they could read my thoughts - but the behavior I was using to try to hide my anxiety was making me look MUCH more anxious (and even a bit "crazy"!)
And really, I was giving off the vibe that I didn't want to talk or be noticed by anyone and people were reacting to that - people don't WANT to make other people uncomfortable - so in a sense, my anxiety was scaring people off!
But maybe you have some behaviors to do with trying to hide the fact that you think (maybe subconsciously) that you are a "bad person" and people are misreading those behaviors - maybe you're defensive because you're trying to hide this "badness" and people take your defensiveness for aggression..?
I'm not a therapist at all and I don't know you at all so any of this could be totally wrong! I'm just offering suggestions from my experience that may or may not apply to you...

 

I think it's good though that you're trying to work on it - a lot of people have problems and go through life totally oblivious of them!
I think the main thing is to try to be kind and compassionate to yourSELF - don't beat yourself up about things that are not your fault - you've mentioned you had a difficult childhood (as did I!) - these things are often the armour that we put on to survive our childhoods - and sometimes they come across wrong or are are misinterpreted by others now we're adults.
It's extremely hard to unlearn those habits - it takes lots of effort and practice - which is mainly what CBT is about - trying to train yourself out of those habits and the thought patterns behind them...
And also it's important to acknowledge how far you've come and congratulate yourself on the little victories along the way! I didn't used to be able to answer the phone at all but now I almost always can - and I'm proud of that! I still have the instinct to avoid it and it still makes me nervous when it rings but now I can answer it - just an example of a "little victory" that's quite big for me!
And what you said about bullies was true for me too - I think I made myself harder and less "sensitive" and I think I went TOO far with that for a while...

 

This is interesting stuff and I relate to it. Good reminders about the unhelpful thoughts that the brain can get stuck in. Lots of old repetitive thoughts and automatic negative thoughts come up and they are tiring.

 

Ask your five friends what they like and don't like about you and INSIST they be honest. If there is a "don't like" pattern work on that, with help if necessary. If a "don't like" is rare, ignore it or put on a "things to do later" list. The "like" list you get from your friends, play them up; emphasize those attributes with new connections. If your friends are astute and empathetic perhaps you can role play with them.

 

I think it’s super hard when you are desperate or looking for that interaction with people it can put a lot of pressure on those interactions and basically unless they are perfect you end up feeling like you have failed which probably isn’t the case. People who are super sociable and outgoing also have awkward interactions and moments it’s just they don’t bother them in the same way they just shrug them off and move forward.

 

Me too, Lottaotter! The abiding emotion of my childhood was fear - fear of the future, fear of my parents dying, fear of our house burning down, fear of robots and computers taking over. You name it, I was afraid of it.

And there aren't many photos of me smiling, not showing my teeth anyway. My late partner always used to take loads of photos and she's smiling in most of them whilst I'm pulling ironic 'wacky' faces, or trying to look cool.

That's really good. They say that most people have a 'core' of around five solid friends, so if that's the case you're very normal!

Having seen your avatar pic recently I can categorically state you do not look like a neo Nazi! I hate to use the word again, but you look kinda normal. So many blokes have beards these days that it's gone way beyond something that's merely the preserve of hipsters, real ale enthusiasts and nutcases.

Lottaotter, I wish I could magic up some inner confidence for you! Others have recommended therapy and I think you need something beyond sticking plaster solutions like CBT. Given what you've written before on EC about childhood trauma, I think you may need to dig a little deeper. Whatever you choose to do, remember that we all think you're brilliant. Really. Just being yourself is enough and always will be.

Sending you hugs,
Beth x

 

I don't think it's fair to call CBT a sticking plaster solution! I agree though you need different therapies for serious trauma etc.! But CBT is perfect for changing habits or the way you interact with people - or how you think about those interactions...
I've had a lot of different types of therapy for anxiety, depression and PTSD and they all help with different areas...
Also I've found that you often have to deal with the different aspects separately - in my case my anxiety and panic disorders were so severe that I couldn't even notice or concentrate on my childhood trauma and PTSD stuff! But the CBT enabled me to calm down enough to start focusing on the deeper stuff...
But we've all got different layers of stuff and a good psychologist should be able to come up with a plan for all those things...

 

How do we get to be this way too? Sounds nice to not care about embarrassing stuff and they probably don't think about what happened again within moments, and just move on. I can remember things that happened long ago and still feel the burning shame and embarrassment while those lucky people never gave their situations a second thought lol, must be nice!

 

yeah I agree it must be. The thing is though I think all of these things have an opposite negative and so it isn’t always that we want to be the complete opposite but maybe somewhere more in the middle. Not sure I’m explaining myself very well but here goes. I am generally quite a warm person. I don’t feel the cold too easily and don’t like being super hot or do so well in the heat. I used to work with someone who loved the heat but didn’t like the cold and used to get cold easily. He said to me one day ‘I wish I was more like you and didn’t feel the cold’. I said to him yes but then in the summer when it’s hot you would probably not like it the way you do now. You would probably be like me and overheat, you can’t have the good bits of everything.
In regards to personality traits we over sensitive, shy or slightly awkward people (or however you want to describe it) feel each word and look and remember it forever but I also sometimes think that an advantage of that is noticing other peoples expressions or tone. Or being more insightful of others feeling or situations and these are not things you necessarily want to throw away. We all just need to find balance. That is for us to become more confident (which I’m always working on) but never forget where we have come from.