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I feel like I failed but probably I didn't

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Mihael, Sep 19, 2022.

  1. Mihael

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    So lately a lot of what I wanted to accomplish in terms of transition went badly. I had an idea that I would go through the whole process and pick things that would make me feel better in this department, namely: I would do a psychological diagnosis and I would take birth control pills, because there is a number of reasons they could make my life better if they worked as intended. I failed to get a diagnosis, because I don't want to take testosterone, and one psychologist told me that I don't have dysphoria (it's not that I don't, I just don't feel proud of it and don't dwell on it), another made me feel angry by saying "a woman can do this, a woman can do that" and saying things that implied that I won't be accepted by others unless I take hormones and have surgery. I wanted to talk to her about hormones, and I'm not closed to the idea, however, the way she talked about it made me furious to the point that I flipped out in class when something reminded me of her and had to leave. She said I could have children via in vitro - I felt like she's not listening, because I have a whole lot of problems with hormonal medication. I would prefer pregnancy to having my brain wrecked by artificial hormones. Maybe pregnancy also is hard but women from my family all respond the same to birth control pills (side effects to the point of illness) and other hormonal medications and nobody had problems with being pregnant. At least not problems of that sort, some needed to have a cesarian section. Anyway, I stopped going to this psychologist, because I was furious at her. Aha, she also didn't get it that vaginal sex doesn't work for me (it seems like she is one of the health professionals who have a low libido and think that having a higher one is impossible). She also asked me about eating disorders, even though I said I never had anything that even resembled an eating disorder.

    The second point was birth control pills. I can't take them. Any. Not even the "mini-pill". They give me problems with blood circulation which might be thrombosis, but even if they aren't - losing sense of touch in my legs is too much for me. I like to move my legs and walk. Also, they give me horrible nausea to the point that I don't eat and lose weight (I'm skinny, so that's a bad thing) and problems with feeling very sleepy, out of energy and not being able to sleep at night at the same time.

    So this is the end and I failed.

    Or at least I feel like I failed. Objectively, I transitioned socially, I pass quite well for a person who doesn't take hormones and I have had meaningful success with voice training, because I have PCOS and my voice is sort of in between naturally, so if I try, I'm able to sound like a cis guy. I buy men's clothes, which look good on me, I have a fairly masculine silhouette and I use a masculine name and pronouns. Maybe I don't use a binder, but I don't need to, because I have a small chest. I have to shave my peach fuzz, because I have visible peach fuzz due to PCOS and I look stupid if I don't remove it. So did I really fail? Some things I have had success with, and some not. But I feel like I failed and don't know how to not feel this way.

    Thank you for reading this rant if you've made it so far. I hope it makes sense.
     
  2. Mirko

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    Question: how come you are so hard on yourself?

    Reading over your post, and while your last visit with the psychologist didn't result in the meeting you had likely hoped for or wished for, you still have all the other pieces you have mentioned going for you.

    Unfortunately, and depending on the wider society you are finding yourself in, psychologists, even those who claim to have an expertise when it comes to LGBTQ+ needs or want to help, are at times not well trained on how to approach things, being mindful of the impact their statements could have on the very people they are trying to support.

    If something isn't working out as you had hopped, try not to look at it as a failure. It might be a set back but at the same time with everything you have indicated, how much of a set back is it actually? At the end of the day you are still making progress. :slight_smile:
     
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  3. Mihael

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    Well said.

    It is a setback in terms of... I struggle with confidence internally. I try to be tough and in front of cis folks, I figured out that displaying confidence is what makes them respect my identity, pronouns, choice of bathrooms etc. I tell them what I expect from them in a very task oriented manner and if I break it down like that, they can wrap their heads around it. But inside I feel kind of empty. What I think it means is that I need to talk about my issues and feel like someone understands, but I don't feel understood, I feel like I always need to fight others and that they don't understand, deny how I'm feeling, which is incredibely frustrating. I've been to a couple of other therapists before, and with only one of them the experience wasn't frustrating and a second one I liked got to know I was trans when we were finishing our work together, as he didn't felt capable of helping a young person like me and he was going to retire. I also feel extremely misunderstood by the trans community. I used to think that I don't experience dysphoria, or at least I don't experience it the way many trans prople do, and I don't want to take hormones or have top surgery - this is why I get grilled in groups consisting of trans people and by health proffessionals. Many people don't respect it that I'm a guy, not non-binary. Masculinity is what I resonate with, I relate to men, femininity isn't my thing, my body feels as if I was supposed to be a guy, it all makes sense this way. But the people I mentioned can't wrap their heads around it and try to talk me into what they think I should say or do. They don't get it that I might feel the way I feel and see my transition the way I do at the same time, because they feel like they must take all the medical steps and in their heads there is no possible way for someone to have a different emotional landscape and to feel oblivious to this whole situation. It's extremely frustrating. Not saying I feel misunderstood and rejected here in particular, but in general. I've met also some well-meaning LGB folks, but it's just not that same depth of conversation as with someone who is trans or isn't but has some thoughts about gender. I also had some frustrating conversations with university classmates in which I had to quarrel with their dismissive attitude, "but you look like a woman" statements, accusations of being a sexist. And my family didn't ever... reject me per say, but the dialogue looked pretty much like with the classmates plus my mom wanted me to dress feminine on top of that, giving arguments like "you won't find a husband if you dress like that". I could explain it to her over and over and she never got it. My dad was like "why do you even care? I wouldn't". Now things got much better with them, they don't talk like that and my mom even buys me men's clothes, but it still hurts, I guess. Or... the generality of it still hurts. I got some people understand me and accept me alter on, but I still can't get over all of it. I'm not sure how or if ever I will get over it.

    I also went through something really unpleasant with my PCOS and doctors. I react really badly to hormonal medication that is supposed to make me look more feminine. I don't even want to look more feminine. I was being told to get my body hair lasered. Despite saying before that I don't want to. After giving it some thought, I concluded that I like my facial hair, even though it's very delicate. It makes me feel like it's not all just in my head. I feel like doctors made all kinds of assumptions about me, like that I dress masculine, because I have problems with my body. Or that it didn't fit in with their world view that I'm muscular and that I might like it. One doctor stared at me like at a weirdo when she did the exam. I got told that I'm crazy by another one. I also feel like I got treated way too much for the acne that I had. I found the right doctors in the end, I got the right treatment, so no worries. But it was... tough. And it makes me want to reclaim my body somehow, but I don't have a clue how.

    So this is where I think this feeling might come from. Or why appointments with psychologists feel so disappointing.

    Hm, right, transition is going okay after all. :slight_smile:

    I mean, all of the social transition happened long ago. I came out... 6 years ago. Then I changed the way I dressed, my hair got shorter and shorter and I came out to more people, including stating my name and pronouns, started to pass and use the men's bathroom as a result. Then 2 years ago, I got a men's haircut and started to go "live as a guy" all the time (name, pronouns, bathrooms). And that was pretty much it. So technically, it's not progress now, but I guess the results are good.
     
  4. Mihael

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    Ok, I'm going to try for the third time. I wanted to push the previous diagnosis psychologists and you can't imagine how stressed I felt. I went to this psychologist who I described and had a mental health breakdown.
     
  5. Mihael

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    I... got the diagnosis? :astonished::grinning:
     
  6. Mirko

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    I was about to respond to your responses. I'm happy for you that you got the diagnosis. Do you feel it will help you to move forward and make progress?
     
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  7. Mihael

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    Oh yes, it helped me a lot to free myself mentally from it. I can finally stop thinking about this and focus on other things, like on being assertive about my name and pronouns, going out with friends or my interests. I still need to recover emotionally after it, though.

    I would appreciate a longer response if you had one in mind too, I'm still not calm about all this at all :sweat_smile:
     
  8. Mirko

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    Hi there!

    I am glad that your last visit with the psychologist has helped you to free yourself and perhaps it has also given you a springboard from which to further build your confidence, externally and internally. I wonder, if the confidence issues you are experiencing influence how you perceive others - their responses, how they interact with you - after you share with them what is on your mind and how you would like them to address you (for example).

    I suppose the other piece here could be your expectations of yourself and of others. When you reflect on your expectations, and when you speak with someone, let's say a friend or someone who you know, how do you go into the conversation?

    Sometimes, in order to gain understanding from someone, we need to take them on a journey as it were, and share with them what we feel with emotions. I am not sure that they are coming with you on that journey if you are conveying what you would like to see happening in a factual manner. When you describe your interactions - not feeling understood, feeling the need to fight others, others not gaining an understanding and you feeling frustrated in the end - I have the feeling that something is missing in your conversations. Building connections, and allowing others to gain a glimpse into what it is like to go through your experiences, might require you to be more vulnerable, more open about your feelings, emotions and thoughts.

    Some people might not feel immediately comfortable with how you see yourself, and what you feel is best for you, and they start projecting what they know, understand and feel comfortable with. However, you can (potentially) gain that understanding and support as it were, by perhaps trying different approaches. As you know, when it comes to identity, it is always easier to understand the familiar - sometimes people want to make the unfamiliar, familiar. It can come out in what they mention to you, and how they view your situation. When that happens, try not to become frustrated, as this could show. Continue engaging them with an understanding, and build on it, so that they can come to understand you.

    I understand that it can't be easy and that things people say - whether they are classmates, friends, family - can hurt and it can remain with you for a time. Not to take away from it, however, here is the thing though: you have made progress, you have achieved things that you aimed for when you began transitioning and your coming out journey, and you have achieved results. Keep building your confidence on what you have already achieved.
     
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  9. Mihael

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    Omg, an unfinished long response got eaten by the browser and it didn’t get saved…
    (For context, nobody has had a problem with pronouns and name so far)

    I think the lack of confidence causes me to become more easily irritated. I mean, if someone says something silly about some other topic or another area of my life, it doesn’t get like that to me, I shrug it off much more easily, because I emotionally know it’s not true. Not just intellectually.

    I don’t have any specific expectations in mind, I think, except that since I established with someone that we’re talking about “philosophical” and intimate topics, that they won’t attack me or that they will put in the effort to at least pay attention. One friend responded with a “but you smell” like a woman, and it made me feel like he wasn’t listening to what I’m saying at all, because I said clearly: mind, the body is what he or anyone else can see. Another attacked me that I’m antifeminist to identify as a man and that I must not tolerate nonbinary people, because “truscums” say that only binary trans people are valid, because it was confirmed by brain scans, and I also said that my experience is that I have a male brain and a female body. Obviously, I don’t think nonbinary people aren’t really nonbinary. But this friend made a point to completely invalidate my experience by saying that gender is what you think you are and independent of your brain, feelings, gender expression or what have you. And my experience is that I stood out by looking like a girl and behaving like a boy my whole life, and it couldn’t have been the environment, because it pushed me to be more feminine. I wasn’t raised with boys or anything like that. I don’t know if it explains anything, but… this is how my expectations were failed.

    Now that I think about it, I talked to a few people last year and they understood and their response was positive, namely, they acknowledged how I feel and we were on the same page. So I’m not sure why I’m stuck on the negative experiences. Maybe with the psychologist that I complain about, it was also initially okay, although I felt like we weren’t coming from the same places. Taking into account what you are saying about taking someone on a journey and walking together, there was a point at which this understanding slowly started to diminish or… I’m not sure if it was a point. I’m an engineer, not a linguist, and my mind works in a way that I don’t come up easily with the right words when it comes to nebulous concepts or feelings. I’m okay if I give it time and make effort, but it’s not super easy. So what happened is that I had to correct misunderstandings over and over and over again and in the end there were just too many for me to cope with. She said that a woman can do this or that, I had to correct her, she said the thing about in vitro (which actually hurt pretty badly if I had to be honest, I potentially won’t be able to have children due to all these issues and I always really wanted to), she said something about the sex that actually made me feel… awful, like even more of a freak than I already felt like, and in addition guilty that I must be messing something up that my body doesn’t respond in a way she described it. The last time I went to her, she said that she would hurt me by giving me the diagnosis. I don’t know if she thinks I will detransition in the future and think I was given a “label” or that I would take hormones without thinking it through and later regret it if given the possibility? Both possibilities are… it makes me feel treated like an idiot under the coat of “concern”. I’m aware that I had a meltdown, because I accumulated these feelings, but there was no way for me to go through them, I was being honest (probably unnecessarily) and she generated never new ways in which she misunderstood and invalidated me. I don’t even know why she treated me like a woman (it felt like it), because I pass and nobody treats me like a woman any more, because looks make a subconscious impression. It makes me feel even more angry that she saw right through me to see this “woman” with normative woman feelings. It makes a really bad impression to focus on someone’s genitalia like that. In my case, it is genitalia, because I look like a young guy.

    I feel like my mistake was trying to convince her when I saw where it was going. But I thought that it’s better to tolerate her and finish it. I had no nerve to look for someone else, or at least this is what I thought. I worried about the lost money and effort. *Now* I lost much more money and effort than if I went away in the right moment, probably in April. I also wanted her approval and to prove that I can do it. I wanted to “not be so picky and fussy”.

    So… I try to do like what you’re saying, it just turns out to be beyond my capabilities, because I’m not the best or quickest at talking about feelings, especially with topics on which I do feel hurt, scared, just unsure how to approach them in the face of being busted. Sometimes, when I recall talking with the psychologist, the feelings were too strong for me to talk about them and to approach them easily, I needed to calm down first several times in order to say anything, and I wasn’t calm talking about them - but don’t I have the right to not be calm about something I want to talk about in therapy? I also felt like the therapist constantly asked seemingly colourless, but biased questions, which allowed only for a certain type of answer, and my answers painted the wrong picture, because she was constantly making it all about “a woman can this and that”, I can’t pinpoint in which words it lied, but it was constantly there, she made the assumption that I am a female and that there is intrinsic value in being “pure breed” physically, which to me is offensive, because I wasn’t born with average levels of hormones and she might not notice it, because she’s less observant than the average person (a lot of people pointed it out to me that the way my body looks is masculine), but I have to shave my face, I had half of a voice mutation, I’m exactly the person to potentially get kicked out from female sport, because I’m visibly taller and more jacked - so am I a mistake according to her? Am I less worthy for not being “pure breed”? It’s as if she thought that it is a positive to tell me that I’m a normal woman, but it discredits my experiences. I don’t want to be put in the “woman” mold and for the average female to be considered as the entry point for my experiences. It’s not my entry point. And I can put it forth like that right now, but during meetings with this therapist, she wouldn’t give me the time I need to explain (maybe my explanations are too lengthy, but I don’t know any other way to put it, I don’t really know what is going on in other people’s heads, I mean, I see/sense what they are feeling, but not the exact thought process that led there…) and she would turn everything around in the wrong direction and I was emotionally exhausted and mentally spinning while talking about it, so I couldn’t resist the (probably unaimed for) manipulation in the moment. I was being vulnerable. And I got hurt by showing my guts to a stranger, who couldn’t be trusted for some not very obvious reason. I also get the feeling like she treated what I said against me, she asked a question why something, and then told me that women can be like that, it was super annoying. She used everything to disprove what I say. I don’t really know what my “entry point” is, but it’s not “woman”. Then she took it against me that I don’t talk like a stereotypical trans person when she asks her biased stupid questions, which assume that a trans person wasn’t their gender before transitioning, but just “wants” to be a certain gender. I don’t want that in my life, I want to just live on, but I was born like this. It’s not a want, I’m masculine to the point that it makes no sense to live as female and to the point that I don’t feel female at all. I hoped to find out how I can better explain my experiences to others with a psychotherapist, but it proved to be… counterproductive. I’m sorry if it’s completely unclear what I’m trying to say… I hope I made some sense?


    Thank you for saying that. It matters to me.
     
  10. Mirko

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    Your response makes sense and from what you have described, it looks like you are trying to work on multiple, interrelated, things.

    Of course, it is okay to talk about your feelings, and things that are difficult for you to verbalise, one at a time. You can place parameters around how much and what you would like to share for each of the sessions with your psychologist, for example, and slowly provide that bigger picture on where things are at for you. When you think about your confidence level, expectations (in particular around having support and understanding from your friends), and how you relate to others and to yourself, think about what are the first things you would like to tackle. As they are interconnected, you might find working on one thing, will also lead you to work on another thing.

    In some ways, you will always have some expectations and it is also okay to be honest with a friend and make them aware of that their statements made you feel invalidated - from the sounds of it, you were able to speak with them, but if by chance you haven't had a chance to let them know or haven't that conversation with them yet, it might be worth to think about whether it something you would like to do. It is possible that your friend(s) is(are) not aware of how their words, stated thoughts could make you feel. It is also okay to stop someone in mid-sentence, especially if you feel hurt or misunderstood, and make them aware of the impact their words have. If you feel it would be best not to respond immediately and to give yourself some time to reflect on a response, take that time. You can always return to a conversation, or take a friend aside, and let them know a day or so later.

    Negative experiences are much harder to get over or leave behind, even though you had positive experiences with friends as well. This is how we are wired. And unfortunately, it is the negative experiences that stay the longest with us.

    It can happen that you and the psychologist are approaching things from different angles or perspectives. If you don't mind me asking, and am not sure if you had the opportunity to do so, have you mentioned how your psychologist's statements made you feel to her?

    Coming to the end of your post, I started wondering, what is preventing you from looking into another psychologist - if you haven't continued or stopped doing so? Are there LGBTQ+ friendly psychologists within the geographic area that you live?
     
  11. Mihael

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    It was long ago and I don't see these people any more at all, because I met them at univeristy.

    When I talked with the teammate lately, I told them that they're not helping, this isn't what I want etc. but they apparently knew better what I need ... And they pushed that I must not *understand* myself and not know what I'm doing *completely*. I'm not unaware of what I'm doing, I'm probably too self-aware. I tried to explain to them that they were wrong about the whole situation, but they just don't get it, no matter how hard I try.

    I see. So it's not only me.

    I wanted to get a diagnosis and approach it more holistically. Namely, that I wouldn't be left feeling like I didn't finish something, left something unresolved, and that the psychologist would be supportive throughout the transition process, in terms of, I would have someone to whom I could lay out my plans and talk how I could make them work. And work out the plans first. I hoped I could "talk it through". I didn't mean that the psychologist would decide *for me* or *advise me* what to do, but I really need another human being to talk to -_- to hear what I'm saying and I need someone who would have an idea about what it's like to be trans. I didn't expect a psychotherapy.

    Aha, and there are very few psychologists who do the diagnoses. I've been to several. I've been to two other ones who weren't approachable and this one with whom I had success. The one that I would think would be good takes in new patients just once a year. Another one moved to a different city and there is someone I don't like from what other people say about his sessions, he seems very transmedicalist.

    But I'm not sure what I would need at this point if I was looking for a psychologist. It turned out to be such a can of worms. It just hurts and I probably didn't even talk through what I needed to talk through. And I feel... extremely invalidated.
     
  12. Mirko

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    With what you have mentioned about what happened previously at university, I am wondering if there would be a way for you to let go, and not let it bother you as much as it perhaps does at times, in particular when you think about acceptance, gaining an understanding from others. With the teammate, it sounds like you have done everything you could. I don't know how close the friendship is, but if it is at a level where you have regular chats and can talk about various things, it might be worthwhile to let things be for a while and focus your conversations on other topics or things. Sometimes, that distance can help in the other person to take a step back and think about why they suggested what they did in the first place.

    How someone responds, or what they say, can also come from their own insecurities, fear of change, or the fear of the unknown. Most of the time, no matter how well intentioned their comments or suggestions might me, they are seeking the familiar. As you go through the transitioning process and work towards becoming comfortable in your own body, you are seeing the changes and your growth as a person happening every day. For a teammate or a friend, they only get to see, hear bits and pieces. They are not living through the transition the way you are; they are an observer to the changes.

    How would you feel about perhaps taking some time to think about what you need, and what you would like to ask a psychologist? The one psychologist that you feel who might be good but takes patients only once a year, when is the next intake for them? Are there any online counselling options available where you live?
     
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  13. Mihael

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    True, that was quite long ago :wink: Everone changed during this time and probably everyone would handle the situation differently at this point.

    Well, we're not really friends. This whole thing began when I broke out crying duting a training, because everything was just too much for me. They didn't want to talk about anything other than psychological type of topics. I tried to get them to talk about their life too, but they didn't want to. Or about lighter topics.

    It very well might be like that. *sigh*

    Well, it's for diagnosis, and I got it already. I mean, almost. Now I have to do tests, but they are a formality. I don't have the strength to go through this any more either. But this psychologist opens their queue in March.

    I'm considering going to the psychologist, but not for them to do a diagnosis, but to work on something that I might need to work on. I began working with a psychotgerapist short-term right now, because I got a depressive episode(?) because of the diagnostic process as well as some other factors that I mentioned in another thread. It's been just one meeting so far, because I've seen this psychologist before, but it seems to have helped and I'm taking care of myself and I'm recovering. Slower than I would want to, but I do. But anyway, I'm not sure what I would need beyond processing the tough part of it all. Idk, maybe I just need to give it time and it will clarify. The psychologist I'm seeing right now keeps on saying that there are a lot of others' expectations in what I'm describing, and he keeps on asking what I would want from all that? Namely, from all the gender-related things. Or from for example a support group, because I have bad experiences with trans support groups. Or from the friends or psychologists.