I was following the news about the Olympic Games and the question about it being fair if a mtf trans woman should be allowed compete in the women’s weightlifting. Personally I can’t see why not. Some of those women have more testosterone than me! But then I asked the question - is it not time for these sports competitions to consider expanding the genders to be more than just men’s and women’s? I’m interested in hearing other people’s opinions…
I could see maybe having male, female, and coed. That could probably be interesting for some sports (like gymnastics). I don’t see them trying to do every modern permutation of gender.
I try to avoid the gender categories. I don't think I physically fit into either category. I still have to meet an afab person my size, most are a head or two shorter and weigh almost half of what I do... Men, on the other hand, tend to be some 10 or 20% larger and stronger. I prefer to work out with men for a number of reasons, but I'm afraid I would lose in competitions with amab men.
I have been reading about this issue online. I think trans women should be able to compete in the women’s category. At the Olympic level there is currently a requirement to keep testosterone below a certain level. Laurel Hubbard qualifies and should be allowed to compete. There was. hurdler Cece Tefler who was not allowed to compete in the trials because of it. At high school and non elite levels I think trans girls and women should be allowed to compete based on identity but at the Olympic level maybe there should be a rules like the current one. The guidelines are currently under review by IOC and Amy change for next olympics. I do think there should continue to be a category of women’s sports. I benefited a lot from sports growing up. I am a cis gendered woman but appearance wise have been mistaken for a man sometimes. I have even been accused if being a man registered a woman in a local athletic event in a public way. I am grateful for the opportunities I had growing in sport and it wouldn’t have been the same without female category. One question I have is how to be inclusive of non-binary athletes. I see some trans activists saying sport should be gender less or everyone should compete together. Trans girls and women can benefit from women’s sports too though. Some Afab non-binary athletes like Quinn in women’s soccer for Canada are doing well. But as long as there are 2 categories non-binary athletes will face some discrimination. I have yet to see a good alternative as to how to divide sport. (weight, height, ability maybe ). Without women’s sport category there would have been far fewer female Olympic athletes and medalists. And without title IX there would have been less opportunities for girls and women.
Also just wanted to add to say I have been impressed reading about trans men doing well in men’s sport though it’s not in the news as much like Chris Mosier who I think had an injury maybe that kept him from qualifying. There was also a NCAA men’s swimmer Schuylar Bailer. (Not sure if I spelled his name right) that did well in his sport.
That’s why I wonder if a coed category could scratch the non-binary itch. Especially for sports where gender matters less. Like, how much does gender really matter for curling and bowling (which I know isn’t in Tokyo, but they could bring it back) or the sports that involve guns? Or even synchronized swimming? Sports that are more about finesse than raw brute strength. Maybe even fencing? I dunno. I may be showing ignorance there. But it seems like there are sports out there where gender matters less.
I agree. I think having a coed category in additions to male and female or having one category with everyone competing together would be good in some sports like the ones you suggest. Maybe when the International Olympic Committee reviews it’s rules after this Olympics it will adjust on more of a sport by sport basis.
Sad truth: men have advantage in speed. Elite female tennis players would lose in with guys who win college level competitions is tennis. Speed is directly related to the kind of muscles that grow because of testosterone. I don't think bowling or gun shooting are affected by that tho. But something like fencing, tennis, yes. An additional co-ed category seems like a good idea. Winning something in sports would be great, let alone in the men's category...
Btw, what are the advantages of female-only sports groups? Besides being able to win competitions. I had the chance to take part, but well, I was a guy who looked like a girl who was on the girls' team and it wasn't very comfortable . I'm sorry if my question is stupid.
It seems like for some sports, it would be a safety issue. Boxing, martial arts, hockey, maybe even soccer/football come to mind. And then I kind of wonder if many women are physically strong enough to do some of the men's events. Like, it seems like having women do the same gymnastics events as the men would possibly greatly change who could compete? (are there even a lot of women who COULD do the rings? I genuinely don't know. It seems like that would require a different kind of build than the current events call for with women just because of the body strength that requires?). That and just knowing that pull-ups are harder for women than men makes me wonder if the rings would be feasible.
I think no matter what gender, if you want to compete in a sport you need to condition and prepare your body for it. Then an option could be to categorize sport by body weight/condition for example. I don’t see many (if any) sports that couldn’t work that way.
Hello All.....I think there is an underlying issue here that we need to understand. Those of us who are LGBTQIA+ have been and are continuing to fight for equality with the straight world. What we are working toward is a society where there is no difference between being straight or queer (including trans). For instance, a person qualifies for a job based only on their qualifications. However, in reality, there is a physical difference in the case of transgendered individuals. In the light of that difference, I'd like to suggest that (this will be controversial ), a scientific definition of who can compete in each of the two categories be established. Call it men's and women's if you like or call it something else if that is too offensive. Then if a MtF athlete qualifies for the "women's" competition - so be it and vice-versa. I hold no expectation that this would actually happen, but it would level the playing field. This is more of a thought-experiment than anything else, so please don't shoot me down too harshly. I would love to see our trans family members be able to actually compete in a fair and level playing field from high school through college and the Olympics. .....David
I practice martial arts, mostly karate, and there aren't safety issues like that. In order to practice with another person, everyone should learn how to control the impact they make, so you should be safe training with a partner of whatever size and strength, if that partner isn't a total beginner. And rather people pair up by size, I think, and by their skill level, and also by gender if it makes them feel more comfortable to practice with the same gender as they are. I don't know about boxing, but a lot of women train martial arts. It's nearly half of those who train. There is no problem with classes being mixed gender. However, I know only a couple of women with black belts. Boxing is more strength based, so maybe less women take part in it. But there are some awsome female MMA fighters.
Yeah, maybe weight classes would be an equalizer for martial arts and boxing? I don't know. I still am doubtful trying to have women do all of the men's events in gymnastics wouldn't do weird things to the sport. But, again, I'm not a gymnast. Maybe loads of girls could do the rings if they'd started training on it as little kids. Dunno. It might be cool if they were at least allowed to try.
Outside competitions trainings are mixed gender and there is no problem with it. As far as competitions go, I feel like I know too little about them to offer a meaningful solution. Women have larger body fat percentage, on average, and the composition of the muscle differs too. Women have more muscles responsible for endurance, and men for strength, but the latter counts in competitive sport. Surprisingly, strength is responsible for speed, for example. So same weight - different possibilities for men and women when it comes to fitness. But these may be averages. I've seen enough "medicine" of gender differences work poorly.
