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Christian Techniques to get rid of your homosexuality

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by mellissa, Jul 3, 2021.

  1. mellissa

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    This Tuesday, I am going to do a 24 hour fast. I won't have food or water for the whole day. I'm doing this because there are parts in the bible that talk about how certain sins can be corrected with both prayer and fasting.

    Now I know, most of you are going to say that homosexuality is not a sin. I am not here to debate that. No matter how hard I try, I just can't remove this feeling that I will go to hell if I embrace my sexual orientation. For some reason I just can't shake this feeling that if I ever had a relationship with a woman, God would be super upset with me.

    What I am here to talk about is whether or not any of you have tried Christian techniques (prayer, fasting, etc) to get rid of your homosexuality. And if so, how did things go?
    I tried fasting once back in December, but nothing has changed. I am giving it a second shot because I think I need to try harder to get some kind of result.
     
  2. quebec

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    mellissa.....I am a Christian...a member of a very conservative, evangelical church. I lead the worship team and I am the secretary of the church as well as a member of the board of deacons. And I am gay. God is not upset with me...He made me this way and my God does not make mistakes! I will admit that I am stealth to my church as they are just not ready for a gay Christian yet...but believe me...there are a lot of gay Christians! I am out to my wife and two of my sons - one of which is a conservative pastor. My wife and I have chosen to stay together and while I am very much gay I am not out looking for a hookup or anything like that. What you are dealing with is heteronormativity that has been all you have known for your life. You've seen it in your parents, you've seen it all around you in public, you've seen it in movies...it's everywhere and so when you do run into a same-sex couple it is the odd, the different, the abnormal, situation. As far as prayer, fasting, etc. goes...Fasting is supposed to be the denial of the physical needs in order to concentrate on spiritual issues. The problem here is that being gay is not a sin. You are born straight or you're born gay. End of discussion. There is a lot of conversation about how much happens in the womb & how much happens due to genetics. But by the time you take your first breath, your sexuality is pretty well established. It is just NOT a choice. I spent a lot of time asking God why I liked boys instead of girls and would he "fix" me. That did absolutely no good at all. Then I spent time asking God what I did wrong that he was punishing me by making me like boys. Then I finally understood that God doesn't make mistakes. So it must be ok that I liked boys. I can tell you right now that no amount of fasting and prayer is going to change your sexuality. God made you the way you are and you are perfect in his eyes. OH...I know that we all mess up and need forgiveness. But if God has chosen you to be straight, then you can't force yourself to be gay. Just ask a straight guy if he'd like to be gay and see the answer you'll get...but stand back a few steps! If God has chosen you to be gay then no amount of prayer will change it because you are actually praying against the will of God! I hope this helps! Please don't hesitate to reply and ask questions or vent if you need to! We are part of your family here on Empty Closets and we do care!
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
  3. MistyMorn

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    I am also a Christian, Church of Christ. I have been right where you are now. Prayed and tried to turn my attraction to women off. Even went to conversion therapy before I finally realized, just as David was saying, that this is how God made me. I am His child. His son Jesus Christ is my Saviour and He didn't suffer on the cross so that I would suffer day in and day out to love in the way He created me to love. Jesus Himself did not condemn homosexuality. God is love and God created love and God created you.
     
  4. SteveBi45

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    I also come from a very Christian upbringing, but Christian beliefs compared to the church’s teachings are not always the same. Over the years church’s teachings and rules can change, but the Christian beliefs don’t.

    I have learned from observing the world that no two things are the same, yet everything as a whole is beautiful. God doesn’t create everything to be the same, but He does create everyone to be equal. As the others have said, He doesn’t make mistakes.
     
  5. Unsure77

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    There’s a reason we’ve been begging you for months to find a different church and this is exactly it. Your church is toxic and, for you, dangerous and this right here that you’re asking is exactly why.

    No. What you’re trying does not work. Thousands, if not millions have tried. Read up on “Exodus International”. Read “Boy Erased”. Read “Torn” by Justin Lee. Read “Undivided Heart” by Vicky Beeching. This is a very well-worn path. It’s toxic. It is not Christ-like. Every single on of these people tried variations of what you’re trying. Every single one of them talks about suicidal ideation. Exodus international tried it on thousands and thousands of people and wound up having to admit it doesn’t work for, basically, anyone and apologize for the damage they did to peoples lives and mental health. There is a reason people are working so hard to get conversion therapy banned.

    You’re basically trying a variation on conversion therapy (which doesn’t work and is dangerous). There’s a reason people are fighting so hard to get conversion therapy bans put in place. It’s psychologically damaging and the suicide rates are incredibly high because they’re sitting there trying to tell you that a loving, benevolent God MADE YOU in this way He thinks is an abomination and the only way He can accept you is for you to change this thing that’s not possible for anyone to change and then they tell you that you just didn’t try hard enough or have enough faith when it inevitably doesn’t change. So, then you beat yourself up. They’re putting you in a no win situation and then blaming you when you lose. it’s basically psychological torture.

    Yes, what you’re attempting to do is a well-worn path. Please stop. Please find.a.different.church. There are churches out there that don’t do this to lgbt people. This is not Christ-like. You are going to a toxic church that is just hurting you.

    Please find a better church. Please find a gay affirming therapist. Please read “God and the Gay Christian” or any of those other books I mentioned. Please Quit doing this to yourself.

    No, you cannot pray and fast the gay away. And when a church or “friend” tells you can, that’s your cue to run because they’re not your friend and they don’t have your best interest at heart.
     
    #5 Unsure77, Jul 4, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2021
  6. mellissa

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    Hello Unsure77, nice to see you again. I hope all is well.

    Due to the pandemic, I am not going to a particular church right now, but I watch services of another church that is far from where I live.
    Listen, I know most of you don't agree with what I'm doing but I really feel that I need to do this. You guys don't know that scary feeling of knowing that God doesn't like a big part of what you identify with. How am I not supposed to feel this way with what is in the bible. Even if Jesus never condemned homosexuality per say, when discussing marriage, he only used the woman and man example.

    Plus, there is a pastor at my friend's church and he says that he used to be gay, but now he is married to a woman and has 6 kids. I will admit that on the outside he looks gay, but still he is in love with his wife.
    There is this website that I watch a lot called [name of science-free website removed by mod], and there they have testimonies of many former LGBT people. [link to science-free website removed by mod.]
     
    #6 mellissa, Jul 4, 2021
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  7. MistyMorn

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    From your last post Melissa it almost sounds like you are pointing people here to jump on board for conversion therapy under the guise of asking for help.

    I certainly hope this is not what you are trying to do.

    I hope you find the answers you are looking for
     
  8. SteveBi45

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    It sounds like you don’t really want to listen to anyone here and you’ve already made up your mind.

    good luck with your journey, but I doubt you will reach a solution with your current state of mind.
     
  9. mellissa

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    I'm not trying to promote conversion therapy, sorry if it sounds like that. I just want to know if some of you have tried or are currently trying any of these techniques.

    I have made my mind that I will try these techniques because as a devout Christian, I don't think I will ever get comfortable with my sexual orientation. I just wanted see if I was the only person on this website that was dealing with this.
    I have heard that conversion therapy can make you depressed and suicidal, and I would be lying if I said that this didn't already happen to me the last time around, but as a Christian this is really important. If I'm not straight then I will go the rest of my life in celibacy. For those that have some experience in Christian celibacy you know that this is difficult and lonely.
     
  10. Bi Wolf

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    Abrahamic barbarians have brainwashed you. Homosexual union was normal and OK fir century's until christianization and the dark ages.
     
  11. Unsure77

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    Mellissa, I hope you're doing well as well.

    However, I repeat, go read about Exodus International or read "Boy Erased". Or listen to interviews for the people who had been involved in it. Or interviews from Garrard Conley or John Smid or Alan Chambers. (the latter two ran the types of programs you're talking about and have been begging for forgiveness for years ever since for the lives they ruined and in some cases lost doing it) Every single thing you're saying is a well worn path (right down the to "examples" of people who allegedly changed their sexuality. If the people in question were actually gay, INEVITABLY it turns out they didn't actually change their sexuality. It virtually always turns out those people are either cheating on their spouses with someone their own sex or they wind up getting a divorce and marrying someone their own sex. Always. "Boy Erased" even talks about this. If you read up on any of these types of ministries from the 90's and 2000's.....every time that's what happened with people making those claims.

    Exodus international tried to get people to do exactly what you're describing and the guy who was in charge of the whole thing has since then outright said it's a fraud. 99.9% of the people they talked into this crap saw zero lasting, meaningful change. The man who ran the program spoken about in Boy Erased said the same thing. You can find interviews on the "Mormon Stories" pod case where gay people were made similar promises with similar examples of people who "Prayed away the gay"...same thing. They're either outright lying about successes or inevitably just before failure. Yes, people who managed to father or give birth to children. That doesn't make them not gay. Meanwhile, the suicide rates for people who do what you're talking about doing is DOUBLE what it is for people who don't.

    No, you're not going to find people here who are supporting of what you're talking about doing. Why? Because it has zero chance of working. It's psychologically damaging. And if you do what you're talking about doing (convince someone to marry you that you know you can never be romantically attracted to if you're gay) and then proceed to make babies, you've now signed up an entire group of people (in addition to yourself) to inevitably get hurt when you inevitably realize it was a mistake and want a divorce. Because you've now sucked in your husband, whatever children you have, and your husband's family into you inability to just accept who and what you are. And you will have done so predictably and knowingly in this case. That's not fair to them.

    On Jesus talking about marriage. No, he did not say that marriage can only be between one man and one woman. That's putting words in his mouth. He was answering a trick question about divorce, and he was using Adam and Eve as his example (when they were the literal only two humans on Earth). The Bible never actually says marriage should only be between one man and one woman, and in fact, the vast, vast majority of the examples of marriage in the Bible that are spoken of at any length are NOT that format. Abraham's marriage was between one man, his wife, and a slave that he basically assaulted to make a baby. Jacob's (aka Israel) marriage was between one man, one wife, her sister, and some slaves. David's (the man after God's own heart...that guy) marriage was between one man, 7 wives (who God said He gave David, so clearly he condoned it), and a bunch of concubines. And then there was Solomon (who was just absurd with the wives and the concubines). These men were the fathers of Judaism and none of them even remotely followed "one man one wife" nor were they criticized for this in the actual Bible. I mean, Lot had one wife and that turned out super. And then good luck finding memorable marriages worth talking about in the New Testament. For that matter, good luck finding examples of marriages you'd actually want to be a part of in that whole book, but that's another conversation.
     
    #11 Unsure77, Jul 4, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2021
  12. Unsure77

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    I will also point out there is an entire forum on HERE with people who accidentally did what you're talking about doing on purpose (where they were gay and married someone the opposite sex...in their case usually because they didn't realize they were gay until it was too late). Go peruse the late in life forum for a few hours and read some of those stories and see how well that turns out. How much they and their spouses and children are enjoying the outcome of that. How positive that experience is for them.
     
    #12 Unsure77, Jul 4, 2021
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  13. Chip

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    Have you read (or watched on Youtube) Matthew VInes' work? He was in the exact same place you are. And he's done detailed scholarly research and is changing a lot of minds in the upper echelons of many of the churches in the US. The folks who stick with the unsupportive interpretation are pretty quickly getting outnumbered, and the science is clearly against them.

    Far more likely, he's in deep denial because he can't accept that he is who he is, it's biologically set, God made him that way, and loves him exactly as he was born... gay.

    The data is exceptionally clear on this. The APA looked at every credible study done in the last 60 years. The claims simply don't hold up. It isn't possible to change one's sexual orientation. THe founder of Exodus said for years it was possible to do so... and he finally shut down the organization and apologized for hurting so many people by claiming one could change.

    You're welcomed to continue to be miserable and try shit that doesn't work, but it's not OK to spread false information. I do strongly suggest reading Vines' work and looking at one of the *many* churches that are welcoming and affirming to LGBT people. The others are basically bigoted dinosaurs that do not represent the thinking of anyone, anywhere in the world, that looks at this from a scientific perspective.
     
    #13 Chip, Jul 4, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2021
  14. mellissa

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    1) I don't want to hurt anyone, that is why I've decided to take the spiritual path of trying to change instead of dating the 1st guy that says hello to me. I have made the promise that until I feel a genuine attraction, I won't date any guy just for the sake of changing or from external pressure. My hope is that a spiritual change will make me different.

    2) I absolutely agree that the men that God showcased as being good examples of godly men had relationships that would make most modern day people cringe. However, I base my faith 100% on what Jesus says. Jesus said " For this reason, a man shall leave his mother and father and shall be joined to his wife. And the two shall become one flesh".
    I am quite confused by what he meant when he said that some men were eunuchs and if he was talking about homosexuality in the 3 examples he gave.

    3) When I was 17 I finally realized that I am a lesbian. I was finally happy to understand why I never liked romantic things and never aspired to things like marriage and children. I realized that I never liked those things because I only saw straight people doing it.
    That is when I started to fantasize about a life with a wife and kid. That is when I understood that I do want to have a family and get married.
    However, at this same time, I became a Christian and I understood that these two visions can't live in harmony. Something has to give, and I love God more than anyone on the planet so here we are. I know that not all you will understand this, but I think this is what Jesus meant when he said that in order to be a true Christian we had to bear our own cross.

    4) Unsure77, I heard that you were going to come out to your parents. If I may ask, how did that go? If you don't want to talk about it you don't have to.
     
  15. mellissa

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    Hello Chip, I don't know what is going on in his head or his heart, but he seems very happy with the life he now lives. He talks about how he was unhappy before and how meeting God and falling in love with his wife were great miracles. I'd be lying if I said that his story doesn't inspire me. I would also be lying if I said that his mannerisms didn't look really gay. But who knows maybe we can still have gay mannerisms and gay appearance while having a heart that is straight. Nobody said that one was necessarily indicative of the other.
     
  16. Unsure77

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    1). I know you don't want to hurt people. That's why we're trying to explain to you what the inevitable outcome will be if you keep trying to go down the path you're going down and then trying to encourage others to follow your example. You're being lied to. Whether you intend it or not, you're cruising towards two different things. You've convinced yourself (with the help of your church) that God can only be happy with you if you change something about yourself that you can't actually change. You might as well say God can only love you if you grow six inches and change your ethnic race. It's the same difference. And then you're going to beat yourself up when you can't do it. And it's going to be a loop and you're just going to depress yourself or drive yourself into an anxiety disorder. How do I know this? Because it's what happens to basically everyone who puts themselves (or is put) on the "spiritual" treadmill you've put yourself on. It drives people to depression and can become dangerous. I've lived it. I've read other people's experiences with it. It will not end well. For me, it resulted in depression in college, suicidal ideation, and I now have a lifelong anxiety disorder. Vicky Beeching did this and the stress from trying to closet herself (and pray away the gay) caused her to develop an auto-immune disorder. It trashed her physical health.

    If you marry someone and you're gay... I've seen two or three variations on that story. Having sex with a man may or may not be traumatizing for you. There are stories ON THIS forum of women breaking down into tears every time their husbands approach them for sex because it's so repulsive for them (which is what would've happened for me) because they're gay and that's how they're wired. For other people, sooner or later they find someone they're ACTUALLY attracted to and their marriage crumbles. Or for others, it's just that they live a lie for decades and finally get fed up. And then, yes, there are a few people who do manage to white knuckle endure their way through a loveless, sexless marriage. None of them are happy while they're going through it. And again, you can go on the Mormon stories podcast and see that same story over and over. Or you see stories of men who are pretending that they're doing this well, only it turns out they're cheating on their spouses and just lying about it to the public (which is probably what is happening with the people on your website. That or those people are all going to be divorced in 5 years). Well, all of that comes at a cost. Because if you get married and have children, now it's not just you. You've dragged some poor man into a loveless marriage where you may or may not eventually come to a realization that intimacy with him disgusts you (how is that going to make him feel?). And if you manage to white knuckle it enough to get pregnant a few times, now you have children who are either being raised in a loveless marriage or they're going to have to live through a divorce. And now either you or their father or both are going to have to split time with your children. How is this kind to your husband and children?

    How is it fair to your husband to be married to a woman who can't truly love and appreciate him the way a heterosexual or bisexual woman can? And yes, the kids can be ok and get through it. But, how is all of this better for them than you just marrying a woman you love and raising them in an actual loving home where both parents can fully love each other. Where there parents have some hope of being happily together for life? You can still have a loving, Christian home for your children. You just need to find a Christian woman and go to a church that accepts you.

    2). Go back and read the full passage. Read the passage, the chapter before, and the chapter after. The pharisees were trying to trick Jesus by asking him inflammatory questions. He was answering a question about DIVORCE. He wasn't outlining a plan for marriage and saying it is the only plan for marriage. In the same set of passages in Genesis that Jesus is talking about, it talks about how God made day and night. Land and sea. That didn't mean that God thinks beaches and wetlands are of the Devil and sunrise and sunset are an abomination. He just didn't mention them explicitly. Likewise, just because Jesus didn't sit there and outline every possible permutation of what a marriage could look like doesn't mean he's banning them all. In the passage in question, what Jesus was doing was giving rules for divorce. He was trying to get people to quit flippantly abandoning women (at a time when women were completely dependent on their husbands). He was saying they needed to have done something like commit adultery. Pastors are putting words in Jesus' mouth that HE DID NOT SAY.

    3). You can have your Christian family. With a woman. That's your route to an actual healthy, happy, successful Christian marriage with children. Find a Christian woman you love. Have babies. That can actually work. You white knuckling a marriage with a man (if you're a lesbian)...not gonna work.

    4). Yes, I came out to my conservative, Christian parents. They took it relatively well. They told me they love me. Started with some rules about spending the night in their house with woman (which I suspect may change once that ever becomes a reality and they have to live with it because it basically means I'll be staying with my brother I visit if I ever have a girlfriend or wife). It was a good start. Most people have been much more accepting than I had feared. So, I'm moving forward. I would have been much happier if I had done this about 20 years ago. My parents would have dealt with it and I could've been living my life and making a family.
     
  17. Unsure77

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    Also, one final time:

    God made you gay. God did not make a way for you to become not gay any more than he made a way for you to grow six inches or change who your parents are. That's done. It's decided. Anyone claiming you can change it or claiming they have changed it are just as credible as someone claiming they lost 80 lbs in six week or (as a grown adult) took a supplement and grew 3 inches. It's snake oil. It's fake. They're either lying or deluded. God does not make mistakes. God made you the way you are meant to be.

    The Bible, when you look at it in the original languages and look at context, does not actually condemn homosexual relationships. The word "homosexual" didn't appear in a Bible until 1946 (that is NOT a typo). It wasn't meant to be there. Soddom and Gomorrah was not about homosexuality, it was about greed and not being kind to the poor and weak. Most of the other passages are either talking about temple prostitution or adult/child relationships that were common in Rome at the time. There are books that lay all this out. People are abusing the Bible to try and convince you that you're bad. The same kind of people who tried to use the Bible to justify slavery pre-Civil war. In some cases, the literal exact same denominations, in fact, are doing this. These are not Jesus' teachings. These are teachings of man and they are not good.

    Your queerness is exactly as God made you and you are good. It is who God made you to be.
     
    #17 Unsure77, Jul 5, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
  18. mellissa

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    Thank you for the very thorough reply. I appreciate that you took the time to write such in-depth responses.
    I am very happy that your coming out went well. Congratulations not just for your parents' response, but for your bravery and strength to finally tell the whole truth. It takes a lot of guts to come out to people that we love, but aren't sure will accept us. Enjoy this moment.
     
  19. PatrickUK

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    @mellissa we have spoken many times about this matter and I'm afraid you are stuck in a loop. Unless you can accept that the Bible and Christianity should be approached from a much deeper and reasoned perspective you will remain trapped in the loop where you experience an emotional tug of war between your faith and sexuality. The leaders and pastors of most churches fully understand the development of scripture and the Christian tradition because it's part of their theological training, but too many refuse to share their knowledge with the wider faith community, placing continuity and tradition above everything else. Don't you think that's rather manipulative?

    Exodus International attempted to use so-called Christian techniques for years. They built a huge reputation amongst conservative churches and received significant funding for their programs, until finally in 2013 the organisation closed down with an apology for the years of hurt and distress they had caused with their entirely bogus programs. If Exodus couldn't succeed in nearly forty years of trying what makes you believe the "new kids" to this sort of crap will? I'm sorry to sound blunt in saying this, but there comes a point where we need to look beyond the walls of our tunnel. I fear you are on a hiding to nothing by indulging in all of this.

    Think very carefully about where you are heading with all of this.
     
  20. PatrickUK

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    The Bible says many things @Melissa but it doesn't mean we take every line and verse literally and toss aside all rational thought. I really don't understand why so many Christians take such a narrow approach to scripture when it's so important to read full chapters with genuine appreciation for allegorical and metaphorical meaning, historical context and scriptural development. You do understand how important this is, don't you?

    I don't think there is anything wrong with fasting per se, providing it's done for appropriate reasons, but there is nothing remotely sensible about fasting and thirsting in an attempt to purge your sexuality. What could possibly make you imagine that will work, apart from a narrow literal reading of a few select verses from the Bible? Is that really how you are engaging with scripture?

    I know you don't wish to debate the idea that homosexuality is not sinful, but it's that closed mindedness that's really problematic. Out of the 60+ books of the Bible there is nothing that can be clearly shown to demonstrate the supposed sinfulness of same sex attraction as we understand it in the modern context - and we can only live our lives and faith in the modern context.