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To App and App Not

Discussion in 'General Support and Advice' started by Lyman, Mar 8, 2021.

  1. Lyman

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    Over the past few months, I’ve been developing a very strong opinion against using dating apps myself (or just any technology to get to know people) because I find the whole premise pretty absurd for a number of personal reasons. However, I’ve never actually used them, so here’s when the feedback from the wonderful EC community is appreciated (wink, wink).

    At this point, I’ve basically done everything I can do to get to know LGBT+ people in the area where I live, except for the apps, one thing I can’t do because of covid, and going to the LBGT+ section of the local library to read and wait. The latter option would have the advantage of filtering out those who can’t read, lol, but it honestly doesn’t sound very efficient.

    Here we basically have two apps with a decent userbase:
    1. One that is well-known for being aimed at hookups for gay men. The exchanges are basically “ooga-booga, want sex?” followed by some explicit pictures. I know I’m not looking for this now.
    2. A swiping app that is supposed to be basically for dating, in which people even talk about their jobs and the like. But I’ve heard that even in this one there’s a lot of hooking up going on.
    (I don’t mention names because of our youngest members; please don’t do so in the replies!)


    I know that using App #2 would have manifold disadvantages, which basically are the same reasons why I don’t use social media and mainly use my smartphone as a dumbphone:
    ► There are nasty psychological effects; such as bad feelings due to comparing one’s life and physical appearance with the idealised version of others’, the addictive nature of the apps, and the fact of being overwhelmed by too many options (like in “no one’s good enough”). I’m especially concerned about the addictive part, as the dopamine kicks of tech have a huge effect on me (probably because I’m not used to them).

    ► I don’t need any excuses to spend more time in front of a screen. It’s unhealthy and it doesn’t make me happy. I much prefer doing things the old-fashioned way.

    ► It’s a huge time drain.

    ► Not respecting the privacy and freedom of its users, which is something I really care about.

    ► People that I consider interesting and like-minded are probably underrepresented in these online sub-worlds, following similar rationales.

    On the other hand, I can’t ignore that:
    ► Pre-covid, everyone’s IRL social networks were already shrinking and, with this dystopia we’re living, even more. Mine were never super large and I’ve realised that most of my ways of getting to know new people aren’t available anymore, either because of the pandemic or of being at a new life stage.

    ► Look at how well things went when I tried to meet people IRL... I can’t use the argument of “The internet is full with crazy people,” as I know real life is too.

    ► I don’t live precisely in London or SF. My options here are rather limited even without ‘rona, so closing the door to a potentially big game changer sounds like something I shouldn’t be doing.


    The most likely scenario is that I join that app in the coming days or weeks, but before I embark on that adventure I want to give you the opportunity to make me “come to my senses” or to help me have more realistic expectations.

    What has been your experience with the apps? What advice would you give to your past self if you had a time machine? Do you have any tip to make the experience less unpleasant?

    My main goal is making friends (I might even set it up to see women too, although I’m scared of leading them on and hurting them) because I objectively need a few more friends, and hopefully at some point one of the guys will be interesting enough to become something more than a friend. The latter part is the big goal, but there’s no rush.
     
  2. QuietPeace

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    100% of my experience with dating sites (I do not use apps at all, I got rid of my smartphone and now have a semismart one an older blackberry) has been negative. I never met anyone who was worth seeing. In fact most of the people who I connected with were con artists just out for money (which I have far too little of to be able to afford to give). The few who were not only out for money were only interested in casual sex despite my being very open that I was only interested in a relationship or friendship. This across many different sites, some free and some even paid (some inexpensive and some over $75 a month).

    Advice to my past self = only ever try to date people you have met in real life and who you have developed a friendship with. Being alone is better than being used or abused. (this also answers the making the experience less unpleasant question) (I would have other important advice to myself but most applies to other areas of life).
     
  3. old tacoma

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    I enjoy talking with guys on the apps. Most are so far away that I will never meet them. But I have actually met 5 locally. All turned out to be nice guys. Maybe the fact that we are all older “mature” men is a part of it. But I will admit it’s a long filter process to find the right persons.
     
  4. PatrickUK

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    If we are using apps or dating websites we need to go into the process with our eyes wide open. Too many people sign up to apps or dating websites expecting to find their perfect match and become hopelessly despondent when it doesn't click at the first few attempts. Those people need to get real. Yes, that may sound blunt, but it needs to be said. Mr or Miss Perfect doesn't exist and we call it the dating game for a reason... you'd better be prepared to play it.

    I met my husband online over 15 years ago (apps were not a thing at that time) but he wasn't my first, second, third, fourth or even fifth "match" and in truth we are so different from each other that we probably didn't match at all (a lesson for those embarking on the process). Some of the guys I met had potential and I did end up dating them for a short while, but others had no potential at all and we were incompatible in every way. We should have never matched.

    Whether you meet someone through an app, a website or more conventional means you need to have a clear idea of what you want. Too many people go into dating with loose boundaries and get badly hurt. Are you willing to have sex at the end of a first date? If you are not, then don't. Are you willing to date someone who does drugs? If you are not, then don't. Are you willing to put up with emotional insecurity? If you are not, then don't. Be prepared to say no and walk away from people who cross your lines, no matter how hot they are.

    I know lots of people would prefer to meet up and arrange dates in real life settings, but we have to accept that the trend towards online dating is increasing all the time and it's expected to become predominant in the coming years. Maybe Covid19 will accelerate that trend? My advice would be to set your boundaries, create the best and most honest profile you can and give it a try - but keep your feet firmly planted on the ground.
     
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  5. LostInDaydreams

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    I can only speak from my own experience and I don’t claim to be an expert, but as has been said above, you need to be prepared to potentially go through a lot of profiles and chats that go nowhere before you’ll encounter anyone that you want to actually meet in person. After weeks or months of pointless chats, it can drag you down so take a break from it all if you ever feel the need to, and unless you’re chatting to somebody interesting, it can also help to not check the app every day or you can just end up just scrolling through the same profiles over and over again.
     
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  6. Lyman

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    Thanks to all for your different and interesting perspectives! (New participants are still welcome!)

    I do agree with this. But for the reasons I already mentioned I think I want to try to use that app as a previous step to know some people in real life and maybe then upgrade them to friends or something else.
    I'm going to tattoo this on my brain, in order not to make again the same mistakes we discussed on my last thread.

    Can I ask you how do you filter "nice" people before you meet them in person? I don't think I'm skilled enough to figure out if someone is an axe murderer only by texting. :frowning2:

    Thanks, Patrick. This is very solid advice!
    If I'm understanding you correctly, with "keeping one's eyes open" and the story about your husband you mean that I should only reject straight away horrible profiles, and that people that aren't clear no-go's can surprise me... Did I get it right?

    Wow, this is something new. I could anticipate that, if I know that I don't want X and end up doing X, I'll feel bad. But I hadn't considered the possibility that, if I don't think about whether I want Y or not, I might feel bad because of doing Y.

    Yes, I'm coming to terms with it... And the more people that are doing it, the more difficult it becomes to avoid it.

    What questions shoud I ask myself? You mentioned: how soon to have sex, drugs, and emotional insecurity. I guess what kind of sexual practices I'm willing to do is also something I should think about... Anything else?

    Can I ask you how to figure out if something is going anywhere or not? I have a friend who's told me to "meet in person asap" and another one who likes to exchange lots of long messages before actually meeting up.

    I like this strategy! I tend to be burnt out of technology from time to time, so I'll certainly keep your words in mind!
     
  7. PatrickUK

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    I think open mindedness is important. We have become so used to swiping left and right on these apps that we don't give people a fair chance. If I'd left it to the website filters to match me to a partner I would have never met my husband because we are so different in many ways, but it's that difference that really interests me. When it comes to relationship and ethical values we are on the same page and that's the key. So I would suggest giving people a chance, providing they are not a nasty person with lots of bad values and attitudes.

    We must have boundaries when we are dating, otherwise we leave ourselves wide open and will get burned. That's not to suggest coming up with a big shopping list and making yourself completely off limits, but you do need to work out what is and isn't negotiable - for you. My boundaries may not be the same as yours, but just to give you an idea:

    Where do you stand with sex? (How soon? Will it be safe? What are you prepared to do?)
    Where do you stand with drugs and alcohol? (Will you tolerate drug taking or excessive drinking?)
    What personality traits are important? (Would you date someone who is judgemental and nasty? Someone who is racist or abusive? Emotionally insecure and possessive?)
    What relationship values are important? (Do you value monogamy? Are you okay with open relationships?)

    A willingness to compromise is always important, but we cannot trade everything. What are the things you really cannot compromise on? These things become your boundaries. Just to reiterate, it's not a long list, but a few basic principles that will protect you from getting badly hurt.
     
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  8. Lyman

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    Thank you very much for yet another piece of superb advice, Patrick. I really miss having someone older with whom I can have this kind of conversations in real life, so it's immensely helpful!

    I do know where I stand for regarding drugs/alcohol and personality, and I'm completely sure of it.

    As for how safe I want sex to be, I'm trying to educate myself better regarding STDs in order to make a decision regarding specific actions (among the ones I feel I want to try).

    But isn't it a bit strange that I don't know what I want in terms of monogamy and how soon to have sex? On the one hand, there's a part of me that appears to want as much sex as I can get, but on the other hand I'm aware that sex without feelings doesn't work for some people... And I don't know how to figure out if I'm among those people.

    I agree with the takeaway that silly things like specific physicalities or hobbies aren't major factors in compatibility.
     
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  9. QuietPeace

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    This tells me that you should wait and continue to explore and educate yourself. If you have not fully educated yourself on safety you could end up pressured into doing something more dangerous than you should and then be stuck on expensive drugs for the rest of your entire life just to survive. Also if you have sex sooner and decide then that you should have waited longer there is no possible way to not have had sex that soon (I have this regret) while once you are certain that you want sex you can pursue it all you want then.
     
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  10. Lyman

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    Thanks, QP!

    STD-wise, I thoughtI had reached a conclusion some time ago, but each time I comment with any friend the level of safety I want to play with in the future, they tell me that I'm "crazy" and that "no one does that," with the single exception of a female friend who is a doctor. So that's why I'm confused.

    Monogamy is a mystery to me... And how soon to have sex in general too, but for the first time I just want some level of knowing/trusting the guy and being physically attracted. I'm pretty sure that I'll know when the moment comes.
     
  11. Lyman

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    And... I did join app #2 like a week ago and the experience is being remarkably bad. I'll post about it if/when I have time.
     
  12. QuietPeace

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    So, the most knowledgeable person you know agrees with you, I say go with that rather than people who are encouraging you to be reckless.

    I wish that I had waited for someone who really cared about me, even though that would have meant waiting decades. You never get a second chance at your first time.
     
  13. old tacoma

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    @Lyman — I guess I should have made it more clear that when I met the 5 nice guys locally, we agreed to meet in a public place, just for lunch and conversation. With 3 of them, there was no further contact between us. We simply did not have a mutual attraction. With 2 of them, there was enough of an attraction to meet again. And 1 I have now met multiple times, in public and in private. It is a slow process to establish a solid friendship.
     
  14. Lyman

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    Well, that friend is a bit of an extremist in some of her life decisions, and sometimes she's "too much of a doctor" in everyday life, so I prefer to not base my opinion solely on hers. That's why I want to research the actual risks of specific things. Never ever having condomless intercourse is an obvious conclusions, but others aren't so straightforward to me. I'll probably be seen posting on the topic at some point.

    I'm not planning to wait for something so profound as *really* being cared about. I have few expectations for the first time, and true feelings and the four-letter word aren't part of them.

    Thanks for your take, OT. :slight_smile: That's more or less what I have in mind when I asked you about a procedure to know before. But I've actually discovered some ways of making an "educated guess" since then. I'll elaborate on it if/when I have time.