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What to do...

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by old tacoma, Nov 2, 2020.

  1. old tacoma

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    My brother in law also told me, “You are the most consistent, reliable guy I know.”
     
  2. old tacoma

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    In a very real way, what’s going on with me is a self esteem / assertiveness issue primarily. My sexuality is bundled in there, but that is not foremost. I have made progress in the past 4, almost 5, years but still not enough.
     
  3. Nickw

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    @old tacoma

    I think it is not uncommon for gay or bisexual men to have low self esteem. At the basic level we are taught that we are lessor because of our sexuality. This is a burden many of us carry throughout our lives.

    So, we are ripe for abusive relationships. If we cannot value our own worth, how do we expect others to do that?
     
  4. old tacoma

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    @Nickw — If you get a minute, please read my post under ‘Male friendships’. It’s more of a rant, but it’s part of the bigger picture for me.
     
  5. Nickw

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    Hey @old tacoma

    I read your post in @DecentOne thread. Rather than respond there, I thought I would in your thread.

    It seems you do harbor some resentment. Maybe for good reason. Do you ever confront your wife when she behaves like this?
     
  6. old tacoma

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    Yes, and I’m calmly told that I’m free to see my friends anytime. And then silence when I do see a friend, unless of course she knows them and she’s ok with them. Lately I have been quite open with her about my friend who I walk with and do other things with. I tell her every time I see him, and everything we do together. I haven’t told her about my past sex with him, precisely because it is in the past and given his current boyfriend not likely in the future.
     
  7. Nickw

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    @old tacoma

    So. Very simple question that I am sure has a very complicated answer. Why do you stay in the marriage?
     
  8. old tacoma

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    As I was driving I was mulling over the answer. Not to you, but to myself.
    The short answer: I don’t know what else to do.
     
  9. Nickw

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    I don’t think that is all that uncommon either. We develop these situations where there is safety in the security. Unfortunately, there is no safety when you stay in a toxic relationship.

    How do you think your wife would react if you told her about your past intimacy with your friend?
     
  10. old tacoma

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    Honestly, I don’t know. Because we are not intimate with each other.

    My best guess — Something along the line of “How could you do this? I’m so busy... I don’t have time to deal with this now.”
     
  11. JessNC

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    This is such an important and complex set of issues. I am so thankful that y'all are willing to share so openly. The situation I am in has involved mutual distancing with my wife (jobs, health issues, life changes), differing sex drives, both being on the submissive side of things, and my becoming open to m2m attraction and sex. Through it all, we have remained partners and friends but have lost sight of our explicitly sexual intimacy. We are working on things as we value our relationship but I am unable to close the door on my bisexuality and same sex desires. She is unable to imagine our relationship expanding beyond a securely monogamous framework but is willing to explore her sexuality.

    I expect that I would not have explored m2m sex and attraction if we had not become distant as a couple. However, my needs and interests are also parts of me that I have come to trust and accept as I have grown older. It has been HARD to share these parts of myself with my wife. Only my therapist knows as much (well, probably more) as my partner but sharing with my partner has made me feel vulnerable in ways I wasn't prepared for. Still, after decades together it seems the right course of action however it plays out.
     
  12. old tacoma

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    @Nickw
    I keep asking myself, as you asked me. Why exactly do I stay in my marriage? Why have I stayed all these years? I was doing fine taking it all one day at a time, grant it, with the ups and downs of daily life. But overall, ok. Even knowing myself, who I am inside. Then I met ____, and my world was turned completely upside down. Outwardly, everything the same. Inwardly, complete chaos. I would think after now getting close to 2 years, things would have settled down within me, that I understand my place in his life and his place in my life, but no. Every time I see him, it’s the same. Best way to explain it is with the lyrics to a song, “I like me better when I’m with you.”
     
  13. old tacoma

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    I got to go walking. I got to do something for me.
     
  14. old tacoma

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    I’m have been walking for about an hour and a half now. This walking has been my salvation during the pandemic. It is the one time I can be alone and try to process all that has been happening within me and life around me. Truly a time for me.
    Oddly enough, it has been my friend ____ who got me into walking. I’m somewhat of a jock, and like going to the gym. I’m one of those guys at the gym who keeps to himself, doing my routine, and then leaving. Always enjoy the eye and candy, but never use the gym for a hookup.
    Anyway, after I first met my friend, as we were laying in his bed together (you know, that ‘afterglow’ period), I told him that he should come to the gym with me, as I can bring a guest anytime at no charge. He’s in good shape generally, but he could use work on his upper body (chest, shoulders, back). He kind of shrugged it off. saying gyms kind of intimidate him.
    So I began walking with him. Around his neighborhood. It got to be a regular thing. Still is. Even though he and his ‘off and on’ boyfriend are now on.
    When the pandemic hit, and the gyms closed down, I got seriously into this walking. At least 10 miles a day. Sometimes with my friend, mostly alone.
    My wife initially complained that, with the pandemic raging, I was putting her at risk and I should stay at home with her. Assessing my situation, 24/7 cooped up with my wife, no more intimacy with my friend, and no access to workout at the gym, in a rare moment of assertiveness, I looked at my wife and told her, “I have to walk!”
    So here I am. I have been writing this as I’m walking. If my friend were here beside me, I would be totally focused on him. But he’s not, so I thought I’d share this moment here on EC with you.Thank you for reading!
     
  15. Bastion

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    Hey @old tacoma

    I thought maybe it’s better to write a reply to here than than the other thread.
    I wanted to say am no better than you or any person here on EC man and I don’t judge people. I try to write about my experience just like you. I have also my ups and downs. Am not a perfect person. I struggle with similar issues as you guys. And I have been trying to work through it this past year by adopting a different mindset. One that l’be happy with. I think what all of us want is to be happy in our lives and at peace with ourselves. I have had a similar situation as yours by the way. I met a person a while ago who I was very fond of. That was after a big fight and separation in my marriage. We had a connection and a good time but not sexual. It almost happened but it didn’t because one he has different circumstances, and he’s more into an active gay lifestyle if you know what I mean. And the fact that am married also played a par in it i guess. I couldn’t leave my marriage like that with things not being resolved and he can’t leave his lifestyle. So that was the end of that I guess. Which made me think more about things and take more time to figure things out. My partner knows about this now. And we discuss things from time to time. But she has trouble, and fears and insecurities I guess accepting these things. It’s not easy on both parties I guess. And that’s the conundrum we face.
     
  16. old tacoma

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    @Bastion
    Thanks for your reply here. After my morning walk today, my day was uneventful until my friend texted me before dinner that he was going to go walking. So I met up with him and we walked about 9.5 miles. So today I walked +/- about 20 miles. Love it, feel great!
    But much more important than the exercise is the time I spend with him. We have wide ranging discussions on all sorts of topics. It’s through these times we get together that I am convinced that there is something very unique between us.
    My friend is single and he lives an active gay lifestyle. His ‘off and on’ boyfriend knows about my friend’s lifestyle, and accepts it. I know about my friend’s lifestyle too, and I accept it as well. To be honest, that’s how my friend and I met initially. I was just another guy who he met online. But from the first, there was something different going on between us. I have attempted to describe it here on EC. But the fact is I have never felt like this with anyone else before in my life. That is no exaggeration. And, for his part, he acknowledges that I’m in a category for him all by myself. Not a “diversion” as he would say, but also not boyfriend material because I am married. I wonder sometimes if I cause more difficulties for him and his lifestyle than he causes for me and my marriage.
    I do not know tonight how my journey will unfold. I am taking each day as it comes. Thanksgiving may prove to be a watershed day - My wife suggested that I have my friend join us for Thanksgiving dinner, so I asked him. He is understandably reluctant but I have explained to him that eventually at some point he will meet my wife and I see no reason why that can’t be this week. And besides, he really has no excuse. He plans to otherwise stay home alone. He won’t be joining his boyfriend and his family because the boyfriend is totally closeted.
    Myself, I am prepared for what may come. And I will deal with whatever consequences or fallout occurs.
     
    #56 old tacoma, Nov 23, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2020
  17. Nickw

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    @old tacoma

    Are you sure having your gay lover to your house for Thanksgiving is a good idea? Regardless of your current state of intimacy with your friend, you DID have an affair with him. You DO have feelings for him. He, apparently, DOES have feelings for you.

    It seems you may be tempting fate into taking the decision to leave your wife out of your hands. You wife may very well figure this out when she sees you with him. How do you think she will feel about that?
     
  18. old tacoma

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    @Nickw - When I woke this morning, I was laying in bed thinking of the possible scenarios. Best case - they like each other and I find myself possibly in a situation in some ways similar to yours. I don’t think that is likely, by the way. Worst case - extremely negative interaction, and I am put out by both my wife and my friend. Literally put out. And alone. But that worse case scenario makes me think of what I have read here on EC in numerous threads - the value of just ripping off the bandaids and facing the raw reality. I am nervous, I am scared even. Yet I don’t see my current situation easily transitioning into something wonderful, and I’m just plain tired of things as they are.
     
  19. Nickw

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    @old tacoma

    Ripping off the bandaid would involve you just telling your wife you are gay and leaving the house. What you appear to be doing is leaving the choice up to your wife and boyfriend. Do you believe that is fair?

    My situation only works because I was honest with my wife. I hadn't had an affair even though I considered it. I'm not being judgmental here. It is just easier to build the trust an open marriage takes when it starts from a position of honesty. And, I entered the FWB arrangement with the understanding that my marriage was the most important thing. Could you say the same?

    I'm being a bit harsh here. But, a simple question. In your fantasy world, do you see yourself enjoying the twilight years sitting on a porch watching the sun set with your wife or with your friend?
     
  20. old tacoma

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    @Nickw

    Thanks for your message. I don’t think you’re being harsh at all. The whole reason I’m here on EC is for exactly the kind of reality checks I need to hear. What I have discovered in reading threads here, and reflecting on my life, is that my primary issue (problem, if you will) is that I simply do not stand up for myself. I can count on one hand the number of times in my life when I have. So I’m here thinking about your words, “What you appear to be doing is leaving the choice up to your wife and your boyfriend.” I’m letting that sink in as I write this, because if true, it’s another example of me not taking responsibility, and letting my life continue to drift. And I’m honestly afraid of the outcomes either way.
    One morning last week, as we were sitting at the table having breakfast, I thought that I have to tell my wife I’m going to go back to stay at an empty townhouse we own. The reason — I feel that I am suffocating here. It was bearable pre-pandemic because I had my own job and my own schedule and my wife had hers. Now I have lost my job (permanently) and my wife is working from home (which she loves, and I am happy for her). But when she is not working, and she can turn her attention to me, it truly not with love and affection, but with all the things that I must do (the ‘honey do’ list). My wife is very task oriented, which has been a boon for her career, but with me has left me being the houseboy. When she speaks of her plans to retire sometime next year, I am dreading it. Because if the way things have been here at home during this pandemic situation is a harbinger of our retirement together, I don’t want it.
    I’ll close with this — allowing myself to fantasize (not easy for me to do!), I would see myself sitting on the porch watching the sunset with my friend. Matter of fact, I tell my friend that I consider his ‘off and on’ boyfriend to be the luckiest man in the world.