So I have been thinking about this a lot lately and I have seen it and read about it here on EC and other places as well as experiencing it in person. I feel that being accepted is a major obstacle to living the way you want to live and be who you want to be. So like if you your sexual orientation is accepted by society, I think you would be happier, more satisfied, in your life in general and less anxious or stressed or struggling. I know coming out might be a solution But If you come out and get rejected, and receive hostility that would be counterproductive and or cause more harm than good. I also know there are two types of acceptance. One is to accept yourself and the other is other people’s acceptance. So what I have found recently after giving this more thought is that my main issue is with the latter. I keep hitting a brick wall because I care about people’s acceptance. Especially the ones who are close to me and the ones who I socialize with or work with. Even though the level of acceptance of lgbtq people has improved a lot in a lot of countries. There is still some kind of hate, discrimination, prejudice not to mention some hate crimes being committed. For me I just felt some kind of hate or mocking coming at me from all sides. I know progress has been made in increasing awareness and milestones have been achieved but I hope there will be a time in the future where coming out might be a thing of the past. Where you might not even need to come out because like straight everyone will be accepted no matter what their orientation is. Until that time. Need a bit of advice on how to deal with people who are hateful or non accepting?
Bastion....There's no doubt that we would all be happier if society accepted everyone without judgement, especially when that judgement is focused on things that we can not change. I'm gay and I can not change that fact. So I can either keep that fact a secret and deal with the consequences of that choice or I can come out and deal with those consequences. Either way there are outcomes to be dealt with. If we choose to keep our sexuality a secret in fear of what could happen if we come out, then we guarantee that there will be a price paid in the coin of our own mental and for that matter, physical health. The longer we allow that secret to have power over us, the worse our pain, depression and self-hate can become. For me it got to the point of being unable to continue living with the secret. Unfortunately I was also so afraid of letting anyone else know that I was gay that I allowed myself to be "locked" into what I felt was a trap with no possible solution. That lead to a deep dispair and pushed me close to a very wrong decision. I am forever indebted to the wonderful folks here on Empty Closets who threw me a life-line the night of my crisis and literally saved me from myself. I learned that the first step I needed to take was to accept myself. I needed to learn to love who I was regardless of what society told me. That didn't happen overnight, and I'm still working on it. With the help of an incredible therapist, I was able to accept that I didn't have to come out to the whole world. There were certain people who were quite important to me and I knew that I could come out to them and be accepted. Again, it took a while, but over a year or so I did it and it changed nothing in our relationship! I live in a rural, conservative place, but even here there were people that I worked with who were accepting. I didn't tell everybody at work because there was no good reason that they all should know. Would it have been better if I could have told everybody? Of course! But I have come to the conclusion that it wasn't necessary. In some situations, where we live and where we work would allow us to be out without too much difficulty in others, not so much. What I've come to accept is that I do not have to live with an all-or-nothing view of my life, especially where it involves my sexuality. I can live with only some people knowing I'm gay...the people who are important to me. I don't feel like I have to announce it on Facebook, etc. I'm not saying that it's the solution for everyone, but it works for me. You ask "Until that time. Need a bit of advice on how to deal with people who are hateful or non accepting?" I do my best to keep those kind of people as far away from what I call "The center of my life" as I can. If I have to work with them I do, but I don't try to make friends with them. One of those kind of people in my life is someone that I sometimes work for. I do my job and am cordial to him...but again I make no effort to befriend him. I know that this can sound a little bit simplistic, but in general, it works. I just try to keep in my thoughts that I don't have to live an all-or-nothing life, that there is a middle road. I'm sorry that I've rambled on for so long! But I do hope that, in some small way, what I've said might be a help to you. Please remember...you are a part of our LGBTQ+ Family and we do care! Please keep us updated on how you are doing. .....David
@quebec Thank you so much for your kind and considerate reply. No you didn’t ramble at all and all you said is relevant to what I was talking, thinking and asking about. Also thanks for sharing and letting me feel welcome.
@quebec, David. Yes you did. But unfortunately i live in a place that’s not only religious but closed minded and 98% heteronormative It is very unlikely that I could be free to live the way I want to live peacefully. I can tolerate bad behavior and ignore it to a certain extent. But am only human and i can only handle so much at a time. But maybe if I could shift the center of my life to a place that is more accepting and open to start with and surround myself with similar minded people that would sure help a lot I think. Until then I guess I got to deal with whatever I have. It’s not ideal at all. I know that. But I would like to develop maybe a thicker skin and better coping mechanisms to help me out.
Bastion.....I know that living in some places will make things harder. However, I think that it can be made to work. I live in a very rural area in Idaho, USA. My state is almost completely Republican. There are no Democrats in any state-wide offices and there are only 18 Democrats in our Senate & House combined. That gives Republicans a more than 2/3 majority in both houses. For a number of years, there has been a group trying during every session of the state legislature to get the words "Sexual Orientation" added to the state's anti-discrimination law with no success. I'm not saying that you can't be LGBTQ+ and Republican but we all know what the odds are on that here in the USA. I live in a town of fewer than 10,000 people and, as a result of my job, I am very well known in my town. If I came out openly, I can guarantee that it would be front-page news in our little once-a-week newspaper. I say all that because I want you to know that in spite of those disadvantages, I am still able to have contact with my LGBTQ+ Family. .....First, and most obvious, is the time that I spend here on Empty Closets. I came out here first on EC in December of 2014. For my first year out, Empty Closets was my only LGBTQ+ contact. I did not tell another human being face-to-face until December of 2015. I learned so very much here on EC. I had very little knowledge about our LGBTQ+ Family. I knew what Gay & Lesbian meant and that was all. If you read some of my posts from a year or two ago you'll see how that changed...but that's another story. The folks here on EC helped me so much to fill in the enormous gaps in my knowledge and I developed some great "relationships" through sharing messages with other Empty Closets members all over the world. When I had bad days, and believe me there were some pretty bad ones, the wonderful EC folks were there for me. If I continue to post here on Empty Closets for the next twenty years, I will still not have paid back the gift of life that my LGBTQ+ Family on Empty Closets gave to me. .....Then there is my therapist. He is the one that I told "I am gay" in December of 2015. I know that it can sometimes be difficult to find the "right" therapist, but I managed to be lucky enough to do it right the first time. I have heard others say that if a therapist doesn't feel right to you, don't hesitate to look for another one. I agree with that. I have encouraged a number of people to check a therapist's website/information and check to see if they list working with the LGBTQ+ Family as part of their practice. I know that some folks...especially men...feel that going to a therapist is an admission that they can not handle their problems. That's ridiculous! We don't hesitate to see a doctor when we're sick, so why hesitate to see a therapist when we are suffering emotionally? My therapist lives 150 miles away in an actual city. So from the beginning, we were only able to see each other face-to-face once or so every two-three months. The rest of the time we used Facetime, Skype, or Zoom, and that was starting in 2016, long before our current social distancing which causes so many "Virtual" meetings. As I mentioned in other posts, I am out to a few very close friends as well as my wife and two of my three sons. None of that was easy, but with the help of Empty Closets and my therapist, I was able to slowly come out to a few people whom I care about. I can not emphasize enough how much talking to my therapist has helped me. .....You have mentioned religion...I was, and actually still am, a person of Christian Faith (that is also another story). Where I live there is a church that is very conservative with about 60% of our population being members of that one church. While I am not a member of that church, I am a member of one that is even more conservative! My path to accepting that I am and always have been gay vs. how to reconcile my faith was not an easy one. It took time, as things like this always do, but through a lot of study, reading, and prayer I have managed to find my way to a resolution. It's a rather long discussion, but if you are interested, let me know and I'll share it with you. .....I hope you can see the pattern that has developed here. Over a period of about five years, I have been able to slowly expand the circle of those whom I can trust. Those who will honor my desire to allow me to make the decisions about who I will include in my "private circle of LGBTQ+ friends and allies". At the same time, I am able to share with my LGBTQ+ Family here on Empty Closets, talk to my therapist every week, and spend time on the internet watching LGTBQ+ videos! Would I be completely out if I lived somewhere else, if I wasn't as well known as I am, if it would not have a significant negative impact on my family? Well of course I would! But that's just not the real world. So I stay in touch with all of my "friends" here on my computer and hope that someday I will see a change in my state, in my community that would allow me to make a different choice. .....I really do hope that what I've written here will allow you to see that even in a non-LGBTQ+ friendly place that it's possible to be who you really are, at least to a degree. A degree that works for me! I'm not saying that it's the right way for anybody else, but I do hope that it will be helpful. .....Again...I'm sorry about writing an entire book/novel here! It's just that so much of what I've been through needs explaining. I want members of my LGBTQ+ Family to know that there are ways to survive where ever we are living even though I know that it can be difficult. I hope I haven't bored you to tears and that this will in any way at all help! .....David
@quebec david Thanks for taking the time to replying to this thread. No I don’t think it’s a novel or book. It shows that you are sincere and genuinely want to be of help to others. Thats what the EC community is about. Sharing our experiences and learning and supporting one another. I like the idea of an lgbtq+ family network of support that you mentioned in your post. Whether it was online or offline. I think this could be very helpful. You also have mentioned several points that can be very encouraging in tough times and I will keep them in mind.
@quebec David. So how long have you been apart of the lgbtq+ community? Am interested to know about your views concerning bisexuality and bisexual people. Do you think like it’s a valid identity and orientation in its own right. I have read an article that stated that bisexual is an identity that has existed significantly longer ( than the other new ones like pansexual for example) and was part of the original LGBT movement. And yet the greater minority stress experienced by bisexuals is likely a reflection of how they experience stigmatization from both heterosexual and homosexual communities through bi-erasure and lack of acceptance of in general. what do think about this?
Bastion.....As I've mentioned in my recent posts, I came out here on Empty Closets in December of 2014. I had been struggling with my sexuality for sometime before that, but December 25th in the evening was the moment when I posted that I was gay and asked for help here on EC. As far as Bisexuality goes...I am certainly no expert. However, I do think that, in reality, there are few people who are totally straight or totally gay. I feel that everyone "floats" on that spectrum a little bit with some folks much more than others. I am gay, no doubt. But I have been in a straight marriage for 42 years and have three children. A large part of that was being born and growing up in an era when being out LGBTQ+ was just not possible in most places. Those of us at that time just had to make do with the best we could. I'm glad that is changing now...that so many kids are growing up in a time when that can be themselves! So I consider myself to be a 4 on the Kinsey scale. Of course, bisexuality exists! After all, who am I to tell someone else that the sexuality that they feel doesn't exist? That's just downright ridiculous! We should accept people as they are, not as we think they should be. .....David
@quebec David Yeah i agree. Especially with last paragraph. That’s how I feel things should be. But am saddened that some people feel different about this. Am saying this because I experienced this from both of them. Both seem to say that you are either straight or gay. Maybe it’s ignorance on their part. Some might also think( but they don’t say that out loud). That being or dating a bisexual is risky and difficult because they assume wrongly that they are not trustworthy or unfaithful. And that is harsh. Anyone can be that or do that. Even straight people. I apologize if I seem pessimistic or negative Or complaining sometimes. But I try to be honest and say what’s on mind and what I experienced. It’s also because I want to better understand things.
