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Internalized Homophobia and same sex arousal

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by case121, May 31, 2020.

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  1. case121

    case121
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    I have been trying to masturbate thinking about guys, but it seems hard to get and/or stay aroused.

    Also i have seen stories posted here that say that same sex encounters often are not succesful in the beginning because of an assumed fierce internalized homophobia and it will take time, more experience and trust to pass this.

    This makes me even more confused. Keep experiencing until you succeed or die? My goodness:wink:

    Look forward to read some experiences regarding this!

    Cheers, c
     
    #1 case121, May 31, 2020
  2. LaurenSkye

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    I, myself, am bisexual, I've been masturbating about both sexes for years. My thoughts during masturbation sometimes go back and forth between men and women, and lately, I have had trouble getting, and keeping an erection regardless of who I'm thinking about. My best guess is that it's possibly some sort of erectile dysfunction.
     
    #2 LaurenSkye, May 31, 2020
  3. curiousmind

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    Ok, I am bisexual. Within the past few months or so I've only been able to masturbate to the thought of guys and/or gay porn, almost exclusively. Weirdly enough, I recently had a fling with one of my female co-workers and during, I briefly thought about a guy and lost my erection instantly. Not sure what that means.
     
    #3 curiousmind, May 31, 2020
  4. Chip

    Chip
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    This would tend to indicate you aren't attracted to guys.

    I don't think I've ever seen a post to that effect here. I think you're mischaracterizing.

    If you have attraction to guys... you have attraction to guys. You are aroused and excited by the idea of being with them. If you don't have that, you're most likely at the straight end of the spectrum.
     
    #4 Chip, May 31, 2020
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  5. case121

    case121
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    Thanks Chip, but your answer surprises me some; as far as I understand, internalized homophobia could also include being attracted, yes, still not be `that far` of accepting `to be excited to be with` as you are not yet ready for that and that thought is somehow `blocked`?
     
    #5 case121, Jun 1, 2020
  6. Franz007

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    No, not always. And it was not like that for me. At the beginning i felt shame and couldn‘t appreciate it like i do today. I could appreciate it more with the time. For example i would never have let a man kiss me at the beginning because it felt odd. Now i like it very much etc.
     
    #6 Franz007, Jun 1, 2020
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  7. case121

    case121
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    Well, this is what I was thinking as well and I am kind of surprised a well known guy as Chip puts this possibility just aside. No offence !
     
    #7 case121, Jun 1, 2020
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  8. Chip

    Chip
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    There's a huge difference between arousal and excitement, which comes mostly from the unconscious, and fear or anxiety about it, which comes more from the conscious. For example, it would not be uncommon for someone closeted and just emerging from denial to masturbate to gay fantasies, be aroused and excited by them, but feel an incredible amount of shame, which usually comes up just after orgasm. Likewise, there are men who are super excited by being around another guy, but cannot consciously bring themselves to kiss them, because of the shame and internalized homophobia going on.

    However, that's totally different than masturbating thinking about guys but having no arousal/erection. This sort of thing is more commonly seen when people have something other than actual arousal/excitement going on, such as an anxiety-spectrum disorder such as OCD driving them to "test" whether they are aroused. Testing once or twice would be normal. Doing so repeatedly would be more consistent with a disorder in the OCD spectrum.
     
    #8 Chip, Jun 1, 2020
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  9. case121

    case121
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    Hi Chip, I was more referring to the phase of serious long time internalized homophobia and denial which could let someone NOT getting aroused by gay thoughts/fantasies.

    As my straight fantasies always refer to previous real life experiences and I do not have these gay experiences i assumed this would maybe cause a lack of arousal.

    By trying to experience to fantasize about gay encounters i am hoping to feel some more balanced, less stressed out as this part of me did need some attention as well and longterm opposite sex relationships seem not to work out well for me.
     
    #9 case121, Jun 1, 2020
  10. Franz007

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    I am not sure to understand what you mean exactly. I was just pointing out that at the beginning, because of shame and/or homophobia, one can have a sexual encounter where he isn't fully open for it and can not be a great experience for him. And it can become better with the time, as soon as he learns to overcome this homophobia and accept himself better. And that's what i experienced myself. I would never have seen me as bisexual at the beginning and had some sort of homophobia going on. Now it's different.
     
    #10 Franz007, Jun 1, 2020
  11. Chip

    Chip
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    To my knowledge, and based on the literature I'm familiar with, internalized homophibia and denial does not actually prevent arousal, because arousal is not driven by conscious behavior, but by unconscious behavior.

    I think if you ask any EC member, they'll tell you they felt plenty of arousal at fantasized gay experiences long before they had any real ones to remember.

    I can't tell you what's going on for you. Based on what you've previously described, it does sound like what you're experiencing is more in the realm of anxiety/checking/OCD-related desires to make something happen, rather than a genuine unconscous driven desire for same-sex experiences. But again, that's based only on what you've said, and only you can know for sure.
     
    #11 Chip, Jun 3, 2020
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  12. Chip

    Chip
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    Sure. That's totally different from not feeling any arousal.

    Sure, again, not inconsistent with what I said.
     
    #12 Chip, Jun 3, 2020
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  13. case121

    case121
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    Thanks Chip, but imagine there is a 100% heterosexual guy who tries to make out with his girlfriend who he loves and he fails to get aroused and perform, even he still consciously wants to have sex with her.

    Where does this dysfunction then comes from? Following your thought, it should be caused by an unconscious reason of not really wanting her? The fear of not being able to perform can be conscious but start to become unconscious i assume as well.

    And could it not be true, a deep internalized homophobia can be ultimately unconscious? Consciously I am fine with homosexuality, deep down inside me perhaps not. As you have pushed these feelings away from you for a long time i think it affects your whole being, not just what is on the surface.
     
    #13 case121, Jun 3, 2020
  14. Chip

    Chip
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    I'm really done here.
     
    #14 Chip, Jun 4, 2020
  15. case121

    case121
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    I thought EC was a place for people to share experiences, also for those who do not fit the standard. Especially as the sexual spectrum is kind of complex.

    Your thoughts, guidance is highly appreciated Chip, but your replies are more like 'Vanilla or Chocolate, take it or leave it' and i think sexuality got some more flavors.
     
    #15 case121, Jun 4, 2020
  16. Chip

    Chip
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    This isn't a sexuality issue. It's a mental health issue. That's why I'm suggesting you work with a therapist on the issue because it is beyond the scope of what we are able to address here. No one on an Internet forum can appropriately diagnose or treat mental health issues.
     
    #16 Chip, Jun 4, 2020
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  17. Lyman

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    Had I seen this before, I would have saved some words in my reply to Case121 in his other thread. :neutral_face:

    Before I joined EC, I had been reading this forum, similar communities and other resources for a really long time... And, dear Case121, I can tell you that Chip's advice is (among) the best you'll ever find... Because it's based on science, not on superstition nor on anecdotal evidence.

    According to my own personal experience, I can tell you that, if you think you're right and Chip is wrong, the chances are that you'll end up realising that it wasn't the case, perhaps a long time afterwards. It happened to me... Several times. I literally said to my self "This cat can't be right"... And the cat always turned out to be right.

    Don't do what my younger self did... And listen to the cat. It will save you a lot of time and tribulations. Chip is to human sexuality as Richard Feynman is to physics. By comparison, you and me are to human sexuality as Paris Hilton is to physics.

    Once more, please take care of yourself. :heart: I mean it.
     
    #17 Lyman, Jun 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
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  18. chris123

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    I haven’t been active on this forum for a while, but you can check my posts for some background

    the issue with masturbation is one I struggle with too - I feel like I might be gay, get anxiety, then test with masturbation whether gay thoughts do anything for me. While I can get hard simply from the physics stimulation - I can’t actually get off to gay thoughts. It doesn’t bring me to orgasm. Then, when I switch to fantasies about girls, I can orgasm quite quickly. On a sider note, I have masturbated my whole life to thoughts of girls, never to guys, yet there is something inside me that tells me I’m gay/bi.
     
    #18 chris123, Jun 22, 2020
  19. Chip

    Chip
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    Nothing in the above sounds like like anything pointing to same sex attraction. IT sounds like something on the anxiety/OCD spectrum.
     
    #19 Chip, Jun 22, 2020
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  20. case121

    case121
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    Hi Chris, Thanks for your reply and thoughts.

    You seem to switch in your mind from bi to 100% gay to straight? So are things now?

    I recognize some of your thoughts very well; I also was not jumping on chicks in clubs/bars during my teenage years. I have tried to analyze it as well:slight_smile:
    Was it a lack of `sexual urge` or something else? I do know I always felt insecure around girls and did not know well how to behave, what to talk about with girls, how to get them into me/ interested in me. Why would they like me? I could not imagine and Rejection is something I can not handle to well...

    So, in clubs, disco`s, bars and had a big fear to be rejected, so almost never made a pass on a girl I liked, the fact that the 1st time in bed with a girl at the age of 18 and not `get it up`, likely did not help `to boost my self esteem and confidence`.

    But did always masturbate thinking of girls when I got home after a night out or the next day and I also masturbated whole my life thinking about girls, but still...

    Felt always some more at ease and less pressure in not picking up venues, at the street in a shop, museum to talk to the opposite sex, IF i dared to approach one.

    Opposite to girls, I easily get along with guys, joking/ chit chat, being one of the boys and have always wondered why this `me` was almost never there being with a girl I liked.
    Some close guys around me did think I am funny, easy approachable and therefore assumed I do was gay because of my `lack of open interest` with girls and that kind of `hurt` me, I still remember the people who spoke out to me and it`s decades ago!

    AND, I did feel `some attraction` for guys at the same time, could blush from a guy and often saw the same guys in my dreams. But no urge to watch gay porn or to be sexual with a guy as far as I remember.

    Later in my life I regained some confidence and slept with many girls, which i did enjoy most of the time, but the thought of being gay always returned.

    I do also have groinal responses like a tingling feeling in the top of my P when I see an attractive guy or some feelings which I describe as `lust` in my throat and I do not feel that when seeing an attractive girl. Sometimes I feel that lust in my throat also when playing with my cat though!

    I saw some of your previous posts and saw especially Chip recommended you to search help to treat what looked like some kind of OCD. Did you go? If so, how was it? This was suggested to me as well.

    Cheers, c
     
    #20 case121, Jun 23, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
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