I'm attracted to boys but I've been closeted until recently (21yo) when I've told few of my closest friends. I found out I was gay at like 15 but it took some time for me to accept it, and it was very difficult to me not just to tell myself I was gay, but to tell anyone. One of the reason is I never started having a love life nor a sexual life, and I'm a bit ashamed of that. Another reason is I've always had friends who wouldn't talk about love or sex, either because they're not really open about it themselves (or not having a love life either), either because we weren't close enough. Sometimes I suspect myself of (unconsciously) choosing friends who I know will not talk a lot about love and sex. One final reason : I usually have male friends. For me, I see it more difficult coming out to guys than to girls. Last year as I moved to a new city for studying, I felt more free, I was hoping I could finally living proud of myself and being open with my friends about my orientation, and the sooner the better. It took a few months, but I formed a group of friends, all in the same faculty. As usual : all guys, who wouldn't talk a lot about the topic, so it "delayed" a bit my willing to come out. Then different things happened. I'm sure I like boys, though I also have an uncertainty about liking girls. First thing : I kinda liked a girl in my faculty (I'm not sure of what I was feeling, but I at least found her really cute). Some people including one of my friends perceived it, and I when he asked me I confirmed it. .
Second thing : I don't really know why I did that, but once when I was hanging out with the friends at the bar two girls came talking with us and I ended up "seducing" her (or was she seducing me ?). Anyway I ended up telling her I was gay, we had a long talk; but all my friends remember from this episode is "I hit on a girl at the pub" Third thing : I had a crush on one of my friends and I eventually told him before leaving the city to do an exhange year abroad (which I'm currently doing) This is the situation. I'm abroad this year, and I've achieved to be way more open and way sooner to my new friends here. However, I keep thinking about how telling my friends back there when I'll be back. Most of them think I'm straight, except the one I had a crush on, which makes it even more discomfortable. I don't know how they would react given that I gave the impression to be straight, I'm afraid they would see me as phony or repressed. I know they're not homophobic but I'm still anxious about their judgement -not of my orientation but of me hiding it/ lying. I'm afraid of what my friends think or would think of me. I sometimes find my behaviour unrational, and I don't have many certainties apart from that I'm sure I don't really know what I want. I'm also afraid the relationship with them might change when I will told them.
I think it's one of those situations where you need to take a deep breath and say what you have to say. Your friends, from what you write, sound like supportive, open-minded people, who will not judge you for being gay. As for not telling them earlier - I don't think they would judge you (how can anyone judge you for not being ready to come out?), especially since it's so understandable... coming out to people is hard and can be scary. And it's a long process - we first need to come out to ourselves, accept ourselves, and then prepare to tell others. If they ask why you haven't told them in the past, you can simply say, "I wasn't ready until now." If they are your friends, they would accept your reasons. Take care.
Pretty much what Rin311 said: People who haven't had to go through the coming out experience--people who never have to worry about the coming out experience--can't really judge on this. It is a scary thing, especially when you're dealing with so much uncertainty. Besides, I doubt they'll think less of you for not coming out directly, especially if you told them a little bit of what's gone through your head every time you've prepared to. Come out only when you're ready to, and when you do, make sure they know you're willing to answer any questions they might have to clear up any confusion or misunderstandings.
Thanks a lot for your supportive replies. I don't think they would judge me for waiting so long to come out, but I'm afraid they (or some of them) might reproach me for keeping them in the false (?) belief of liking girls, or at least have legitimate but embarassing questions about that (questions I'm asking myself without finding an answer). Also I'm afraid they would change their behaviour, suspecting me to like one of them or to be attracted or sthg. Which is actually true, and the friend I like knowing it makes the whole situation weirder even. Anyway thanks again. I guess I'm making a fuss about something that's not such big a deal.
it is a big deal to you, but if you have fully accepted yourself as a gay man then you need to be open with your friends and let them know the real you. If they do not accept you then they are not real friends. I wish you luck in sharing with them. My own experience was that every single person I shared myself with fully accepted me.
I'm focusing on this part of the post. The whole post is good. Why are almost all of your friends male? Not a judgment. Just a question. I see that most G/B men have friends of both genders but to different degrees, of course. What did your friend perceive? That you liked this girl in your same faculty or something else? I would think that a person's sexuality in a big modern city in Europe wouldn't be that big of a deal these days. Or is it? It could be that your circle of friends has a different view even if they are university age. If you come from a smaller city and went to a big city for your studies, do you think that affects how you look at this situation and how to work with it?
Hi, Hauru. I resonate a lot with your posts, with the difference that I'm behind you in many ways... I'm 4 years older than you, and still not sure if I'm gay/bi/whatever. This bit is totally me: But you're still young(er) and, more importantly, you know what you are. Do yourself a favour and listen to the wise users of this forum to get to be more and more open. Or else, you'll wake up one day and you'll be a 25-year-old elderly man that still has the same issues as your 21-year-old self. And now let me hazard a guess... Is it possible that you're more ashamed of discussing that you're a sexual creature with your friends than of admitting that you're gay? At your age I found it terrifying, in my case because I was brought up to feel guilty for having lust, crushes, everything. Fortunately now I know it's natural and would be totally okay with talking about it if I wasn't in the closet.
That's a good question. As a kid and a teenager, I always felt more comfortable hanging out with male peers than female (as it is for a lot of guys, I guess ?). I never really abandoned this "preference". Furthermore, in my teenage years, I think I was uncomfortable just socializing with girls. I mean I was terrible at socializing or just talking with people in general, but there was an extra layer of uncomfort with girls. As I grew I got more comfortable, but until this year the few female friends I had were not very close. Other reason : I'm in a field where there is a (very) little proportion of girls As I'm studying abroad this year, knowing a lot of people and maybe being more confident; I made a handful of female friends, some of them resulting to be very close. He perceived I liked her, asked me about it, and I told him "yeah a little I guess but also I feel a little lost" (he didn't ask more). Two other guys in my faculty perceived it as well as I later discovered. Knowing that, I'm pretty sure a lot of people I know either perceived it or were told. At some point, I was unsure about what I was feeling for her, but I had a sort of internalized peer pressure : knowing that (at least) one friend knew I allegedly liked her, I had to demonstrate it and at least try something with her. Ok now you might say this is a super weird behaviour, and it is, but here's how I explain it : I care (too much) about what others think of me, so when I tell them something about me, I will try and stick to what I said even if it's not really what I was feeling or wanted, because I don't want to appear too undecided and unaware about myself (which I definitely am and I already appear). Example : you ask me if I prefer chocolate or mint ice cream, I say mint, but then I realise I actualy prefer chocolate, but I still get a mint ice cream in the freezer to stick to what I told you. (I don't know if I'm making it clear but this is hard to explain in words + english is not my mother tongue). What about me being gay ? Well I'm not sure what is my orientation towards girls, so I thought trying with one I liked (?) would help figure it out. It's not that big of a deal. I know the friends I'm talking about will tolerate me. Other friends I already came out to were all super nice about it. Sometimes I feel bad for this reason. I think at all the gays who came out as teenagers. At the ones who live quite well having grown up in an lgbt-unfriendly country or family. Who had a hard time after and before coming out. I don't have to worry about all that. My friends and family are almost all tolerant, I live in a somewhat tolerant country and in a big city. But I still have a hard tme coming out. It makes me feel like I'm a coward. As for moving to a new city (which was smaller btw), it helped me having new friends and another social environment to start from scratch. That helped me view my situation, rather than the city in itself. Then of course I gained confidence during my year abroad. Sorry if I'm writing an entire book here. I feel like I'm more open than with a therapist. Also I realise I'm being a bit complaining, because I'm exposing my problems, but I also happen to hope sometimes, and be optimistic about the future. Thanks to anyone who has read all of it.
Hey, I'm happy to know I'm not the only one going through these issues. As for the labels, I try to not care about them. Am I biromantic gay ? or asexual homoromantic ? or 5 in the Kinsay scale ? These labels just rephrase a simple concrete question : What do I like to do sexually and romantically with boys and with girls ? And the only way to answer it is by exploring, trying, experiencing. Yeah. Here comes the hard part. It's not exactly that. It's true that admitting being gay is not my biggest problem, but rather what would follom from this. Apart from what I already mentioned (basically fear of my friends seeing me weird for my previous beahviour, and suspecting a possible attraction); I'm afraid any discussion about my orientation would lead to my sexual experience, which is empty. That is my weak point. In fact I surprisingly already came out to some friends, but always in a context where I knew it wouldn't lead to a discussion about sex. As for my fantasies, I happen to find them weird or try to psychologically interpret them. Thankfully, Internet is here to remind us about all the strangest fantasies and fetiches that exist, so I don't find mines that weird after all
Hi, Hauru. I hope you're doing well. I'm also in such a field and I've always been as comfortable socialising with girls as with boys. As a matter of fact, sometimes I found it easier with girls because the ones that "dared" to enter the field did love it, unlike most of the boys who were mainly creepy nerds, instead of smart nerds. I don't love any kind of nerds, but at least I have something in common with the ones that love my field as much as I do. My point is that I don't think the gender imbalance has anything to do with how easy you find socialising with each gender. Okay. So you seem to identify that this behaviour (caring too much about what other people say) is something you want to change. I've made a lot of progress in that as I've grown old and I'm sure you can work on that too. Do you know what the big secret is? That no one expects you to be perfect and, what is more, some people find that those little things we hate about ourselves are really cute or make us special. There are a couple of girls that fell for me in the past who loved some of my mannerisms (that I used to hate). I'm also extremely clumsy and I don't hide it anymore — I just laugh or make jokes when I have a little accident. It actually makes the expierence enjoyable, despite the physical pain. Not taking yourself too seriously is a very valuable life skill. This also holds for me and I don't feel like a coward, even though I'm 4 years older than you. This whole self-discovery/self-acceptance journey takes time, and it depends on your circumstances. I was brought up in an awful way (for this), so it's no surprise that it's taking me so much time. What did you think about gays before you started to suspect you were one of them? Maybe that explains it. Plus, just like you, I also feel confusing things towards girls, so I'm still not 100 % sure that I want to jump on the gay boat. I'm going to post about that these days. Maybe you also want to describe what you feel for girls to see what the EC people think? Anyway, I understand how hard it is to know whether it is attraction or "attraction". At your age I was utterly clueless! Oh, that's what I hope to do in the future. I need to be independent and start from scratch very far away from my hometown... And I need it really badly. Nah, I write even longer stuff. Sure, you'll get less people to read it. But it's very therapeutic to type these things out. And don't forget than writing about these things is better than speaking because it allows you to analyse yourself better (e.g., "Do I really really feel like this?" or "Omg, this is another lie I'm telling myself!"), as it forces you to think more. Oh, I see. When I wrote my other message I misunderstood you and thought you already had figured out you were gay and that you wanted nothing with women. Your profile says "Gay" and it confused me for a while. Sorry. My mistake. As far as the Kinsey scale and the discordant romantic/sexual orientations are concerned, if I were you, I'd forget about all that (at least for now). It introduces a lot of unnecessary complications. I'm currently focusing on simple and essential questions, like understanding what's the kind of attraction that matters and what elements of my past experiences are reliable indicators of that. I'm not there yet, but I'm working on it. Given that you don't know whether you like or "like" that girl, you may well benefit from that too. ^^ If your friends have the faintest idea of how being LGBT (and coming to terms with it) is like, they'll perfectly understand your whole process. If they don't, then I don't think they would even be ok with you being gay. From what you've told us, the latter doesn't seem to be the case. Actually, you already opened up to the one you liked. So, knowing that, they won't expect that you secretly like some of the rest. Do you know what? IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL! It's not even an interesting gossip to tell about others. The wonderful thing of being in your 20s is that you're now in the world of adults and you don't have to worry about the same silly things as in high school. At your age, I was terrified of admitting I was like you (when asked, I felt super nervous and I made up silly and ambiguous stories), but now I'm totally comfortable if I have to admit that I've never done anything remotely romantic or sexual with anyone (not even holding hands!). Obviously, I won't force a conversation about this, and I won't discuss the topic with anyone I'm not close enough to, but I'm totally okay with it and other people are too if I tell them.
Hey Lyman, thanks for taking the time to respond. I don't think it's the main reason but the less girls I happen to know, the less I can better my social skills toward them. During my year abroad (which I'm finishing), I met a lot of girls and made some really good [/QUOTE] This seems a solid advice. I've also been trying to not mind my little flaws, and even be aware and making fun of them. This works for little flaws (like being clumsy, having awkward social interactions, that kinf of stuff), but the main self-estime is a lot harder to manage. It's easy to realize people don't really mind about your imperfectness, or even if they do it shouldn't affect the way you act and feel about yourself. Yet it's another big step to actually not mind. Brain doesn't always do as what he's told. The point is, I grew up in a very acceptable family. I once was told by my grand father that he would accept anyone I loved, should it be a man. My opinions were those of my family : tolerance and struggle for minorities rights. I have had progressive political opinions (including about lgbts) since I was very young, and I'd say before I began wondering if I was gay. That's why I say I feel bad about being so fragile about my sexual orientation when LOTS of lgbt people have it way harder than me. There's one reflection I had by the way : during the beginning of my "political formation" (as a pre-teen, I'd say 12 to 14), I had progressive views about minorities and exploited people, but as a "white male from the middle class, probably straight", I would always see these people as the OTHERS, I would emphatize and could support their struggles, but never would I have imagines to be part of one of these minorities. So discovering I was gay may have been a bit violent for me for this reason. Maybe it's a silly debate about words, but I consider you can be gay and like girls. Gay is about liking guys, not about not liking girls Anyway yeah I'm still a bit confused but even if I may have a slight attraction for girls, boys have more attention from me. As for my profile, it says "Gay" because it's the best label I can rely on for the moment. I can be gay and curious, as a straight man can be straight and curious, or can't I ? Yeah that really helps ! Seeing new people can change your perspective. However, don't have heavy expectations. While moving from my city, I had the impression that a "whole new life" would begin, it's almost as if I believed all my problems would be gone. But I was still the same, and whilst many things improved, I figured I had to work on my inner self to improve personal issues. You are totally right on this. Yeah I try to not worry about this. I don't have many experiences to rely on, so, yeah, time will say. Well, the one friend I like is the only aware for now, and I don't especially want others to know I like(d) him. Also, I didn't mean they would suspect I would be "in love" with one of them, but have the beginning of an attraction for one or several of them, which is actually likely. Again, I agree I shouldn't be ashamed of my unexperience, it's just not that easy to do.
Hi again, Hauru. Sorry for the late reply—I needed some time away from EC to sort some things out by myself and not over-obsess. It's very funny because I've been away from EC for so long that I've had time to make a lot of progress and to undo it. I'll post about that soon, but first I want to reply to long-overdue messages. Yes, improving your overall self-esteem is exceedingly hard, but you'll get to that by taking small steps, that is, by getting to genuinely not caring about your small imperfections. And I reiterate that you'll get better at this with time. I resonate with this. Actually, I'm the "I though I was a very passionate straight ally" kind of guy. Yet, deep inside, I was okay with anyone on earth being gay except myself. Why? Because I "knew" that I could only be happy with a white picket fence life (wife, kids, Christian marriage, etc.). I went through this at different times during the last month, especially after I watched a documentary about LGBT+ activists in Uganda, a country that passed an "Anti-Homosexuality Law" in 2013. I agree that it's really hard not to feel like we're making a mountain out of a molehill, by comparison. In my case, I find comfort in the fact that this whole process is someting that is entirely in my head, so no one can blame me for how difficult or slow it is for me—it's different for everyone, by definition. Maybe it is. Whatever works good for you is fine. As for me, I still find it hard to stick with a label. Well, when you move, a whole new life can begin. Like you say, you have to work to make it begin for real. You're still the same, no matter how many miles away from your birthplace. By "experiences" I meant people I've felt things for and the nature of such feelings. I have never even kissed or held hands with anyone, yet I have lots of data from my 25 years of existence that I can analyse. I can picture that. I'm very far away from feeling comfortable discussing guys I like with anyone (I feel like I have terrible taste), and with friends it would be even worse. I want to end with the old maxim about coming out... When you come out to someone, it's for making yourself feel better (in the short or long term), not because you owe it to that person. So don't do it with those friends before it feels "right." If you end up coming out to dozens of persons before coming out to them, it doesn't mean you don't care about them—it would simply be that you needed that process to be able to do it.
