Religious and LGBT

Something to think about.... you were born gay or became that way at a very young age. God made you gay. Tons of animals in the animal kingdom were made gay. Why would a loving God do that if he felt it was an abomination?

And before you try to compare it to sins, ask yourself who being gay hurts? Theft hurts people. Cheating on a spouse hurts someone. Murder hurts people. Lying and gossip hurts people. If you take homophobes out of the equation, who does being gay hurt? It doesn’t fit the pattern.

 

Despite the fact some churches support lgbts i think many churches ruined the concept of what being religious should be. I don't believe in all honestly a loving God would condemn us and there is nothing evil about love and i will take that chance wherever i am condemned or not i really don't care anymore because if heaven is really full of Trump supporters hell can't be so bad.

 

Yeah, it seems outside of a small number of churches that accept LGBT, there isn't much leeway between the two extremes (majority of folk who are out and proud, involved in LGBT events, organizations, etc. are atheist with bad experiences, while those super religious types have no life outside of the church, so would be repressing that side of themselves).

 

Semi-Practicing Hindu here (My parents are almost orthodox, devout Hindus). I pick and choose what I follow in Hinduism and my parents are mostly fine with the little to no amount of prayer I do on a daily basis. However all our traditionalist rituals and customs are heterosexually based and more so Male-Centric, the idea being that the primary bread-winner and patriarch of the family (be it a father, grandfather or uncle, depending on the circumstances) is the master of house and gets importance in most rituals and customs. That said, since I'm from India and belong to the Asian sphere of influence, it isn't uncommon for me to get the pressure from my parents and relatives to marry a good girl, have a couple of children and propogate my family name, culture and traditions. Which can be a lot.

This however doesn't mean I can't follow my religion. Which I fully intend to continue doing. I've come to accept that I can't follow all the traditions I've learnt since I was a kid totally and maybe never have the chance of getting married (Gay Marriage) according to Hindu traditional customs. But I'm at the space now (At the age of 29) where I'm ok with it.

 

At first I just left my Christian faith. I didn't believe they could be reconciled. But then I began to want to come back but I knew I couldn't ignore this truth about myself. So I started looking into more progressive branches of Christianity and started reading about what the Bible says on his issue. God and the Gay Christian is excellent- a much shorter version of it is on The Reformation Project website. The book Torn is also very well written and addresses the theological issues very well.

 

Throwing one more thing out there from Matthew Vines' book and talks that resonated with me personally a lot. Jesus said that we would know true teachings from false teachings by their fruit. The fruit of the spirit being love, joy, peace, gentleness, etc. He said that a good tree cannot produce bad fruit and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit.

What has the fruit of the white evangelical church's teachings on homosexuality born? Those teachings have caused family rifts. They've caused mental health problems and suicides. They've caused drug problems. A huge percentage of the homeless teens (in the US at least) are LGBT teens who were kicked out of their homes by their families. It condemns people who listen to the church's teachings either to loveless heterosexual marriages of convenience or it condemns them to live and die alone with no hope of romantic love. Ever. It makes people feel isolated. It "others" people. And in a lot of cases, it's shatters faith (as you've seen stated here). All for something they didn't choose and can't control. I personally tried to think of one way the teachings my churches had on this that had a positive effect on anyone and couldn't think of anything. It destroys plenty. The fruit of their teaching is loneliness, broken relationships, broken faith, sometimes broken minds, and in some cases death. That's their fruit.

Meanwhile, there are plenty of LGBT couples who are raising amazing families and/or doing amazing things in their community. I know single-gender marriages where I can see plenty of love, joy, peace, gentleness, self control. All the things.

So, which ideas pass Jesus' own test?

 

There is a tendency within the Baptist Churches of the United States to emphasise a literal understanding of the Bible, even though it goes against all good scholarship, so if you have grown up in this sort of tradition there is little wonder that you feel so conflicted. In actual fact, the Bible was never written with such an emphasis and it was never intended to be taken as the literal and unchanging word of God for every generation. Although some passages from the Bible are timeless and have awesome depth and meaning, others are very much of their time and need to be read with an appreciation of the historical context and language in which they were written and this very much applies to the passages you mentioned from Romans, 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy.

Was the author of these passages (supposedly the apostle Paul) really issuing a warning about immoral practices in the 21st century? Almost certainly not. The author was writing about the prevailing Greco-Roman culture in which sex was debauched, traded and weaponised, bearing no resemblance to consensual and loving same-sex relationships that most of us have come to value today. All of the history and language is explained well by Justin Cannon here: https://www.gaychurch.org/homosexuality-and-the-bible/the-bible-christianity-and-homosexuality/

The Anglican/Episcopal tradition, of which I'm a member has a different approach to the Christian faith, placing equal emphasis on scripture, tradition and reason. We take the Bible seriously, but not literally and we appreciate and honour our heritage and traditions, but also understand that religion must make sense to every generation and be rational (reasonable). Sadly, many churches have lost the plot when it comes to same-sex relationships and all reason has gone out of the window. Just know that it doesn't have to be like that and there is absolutely no need to even contemplate corrective therapy, which is dangerous and does not work.

Do read the Matthew Vines book that has been recommended to you because it's very good and start to move away from the idea that every letter and line of the Bible is to be taken literally as the inspired word of God.

 

Nope, I wasn't forced, I thought I needed to change myself.

A Lutheran Minister, "Anything is possible thru God" was his opening line. I really don't want to get into the rest of it because it almost ended in me taking my own life.

If I was made in Gods image, how can I be damaged?

How many people wrote the bible? How many times has it been translated. The King James version that most carry, Well King James had his own male lovers, letter have been found in England. Homosexuality wasn't even a word in Jesus's time.

It takes time to become your true self, please, begging you not to go the conversion route.

Hugs
Dean

 

It might be worth considering seeing a secular, gay affirming therapist (preferably a therapist who has experience with working with lgbt people). Someone who can help you accept the fact that you’re gay and work through some of the baggage that comes with having grown up as a gay kid in a Baptist church.

For me personally, having grown up Southern Baptist, there was a lot of fear, shame, and self-hatred involved. I spent a lot of years trying to hide and suppress things. Once I ever took a step back and and looked and really thought about what I had actually been through with my church, there was a lot of anger. There’s been some grief involved because of the loss of that community and some loss of identity and, for me, my eventual loss of trust in that church. Grief that my life isn’t and will never be what I expected it to be as a child. I was never going to be this happy heterosexual wife and mother. There’s grief over wasted years where I could have been pursuing queer relationships or maybe even a family. There had been depression, suicidal thoughts, and anxiety over the years. Then there’s figuring out how to come out.

There just is a lot there to work through. Granted your journey may or may not be similar. But for me personally, having a therapist to talk those things and help me understand them has been beneficial. My current therapist understands the Baptist church but isn’t in it and that has been super, super helpful. She gets that culture and what I’ve been through without trying to drag me back into it.

 

For what it’s worth, I don’t know the laws in Canada, but in the US therapists aren’t legally allowed to betray your confidence short of extreme circumstances (like winding up on trial where it comes up or you threatening bodily harm or something where intervention is needed). I’d think Canada would be similar or better, but don’t know that).

 

You should read up on the “Reformation Project”. Christian lgbt people are out there. There aren’t tons of us, but we are here. We do exist. You just have to find the right churches.

 

Now, you probably aren’t going to find a lot of us in evangelical churches because they don’t feel safe or welcome. It’s a struggle I’m dealing with now because churches that teach what I grew up with aren’t going to be accepting. But, I’m not sure I believe lock step everything I was taught anymore. I’m having to sort through what’s still important to me and see what the closest fit is. Where can I feel safe and get and give value spiritually. It’s hard. I’m still working through it.

A good therapist isn’t going to judge you on all that, though. They’re going to help you organize your thoughts in a healthy way about it. I didn’t want someone to tell me what to believe. No wanted someone to help me figure out what I still value and believe and help me figure out how to heal. But I’m not you.

 

For God loved this world so he gave his only son, and if you believe in him you shall have eternal life John 3:16

The bible can be used for more than just hate. It doesn't say eternal life for everyone except queers. Some churches just pick out what they want to preach about. Only God can judge, and I believe on your action through out life, not just one aspect of your life.