Hello all, So I'm hoping you fine people will be able to help me out with a little bit of mental clarity or at the very least be able to please offer some advice. I just want to warn you that there is some talking about sexual abuse so if that is a trigger, please do not read further. Ok so growing up I seen myself as straight, I mean I was straight up until about 5th grade. I only had crushes on girls. It wasn't until 6th grade that I started fantasizing about boys and it's pretty much been that way ever since. I want to mention that I was sexually abused by my father, I.e touching me inappropriately at a very young age, around 5ish till about 8ish. It wasn't super common but it did happen a few times. (Please don't say bad things about him, he's a better man now who made poor choices at that time and I really don't want to read insulting comment after comment). Well I remember at about 6 or 7 me and another male friend would go and show each other our penises and sometimes even touch them to each other. I actually did this with a couple of different male friends, one on a more common basis and the other just once. But the just once friend we got fully naked and touched each other. Of course at the time I didn't realize what I was doing but now looking back I see how abnormal that behavior is for a child that age and I can only attribute that to my father's actions. Fast forward to today. I only watch and masturbate to Gay porn and fantasize about having sex with men almost exclusively and only rarely with woman. I tried watching lesbian porn once and I actually did have a slight reaction but nowhere near the stiff as a board reaction to gay porn. BUT, I only have romantic feelings for woman. The thought of marrying a man or making out with a man actually repluses me. Any sort of romantic thoughts that involve men repulse me. I firmly do not want to end up with a man. It's not about self hate or internalized homophobia. I just genuinely do not have any inclination towards wanting to be romantic with a man. When watching gay porn, I skip the making out and foreplay scenes straight (pun not intended) to the hard fucking part. Even the blowjob stuff I sometimes skip. So I'm stuck in this dark place where I don't know what is even real anymore. I'm very clearly heteroromantic but homosexual. I dream about marrying a woman and having a family and just living a "normal" life but I'm worried I won't be able to perform sexually. I want to add a couple of points. I am attracted to women, like I do find women attractive and I do feel inclination to persue woman I am attracted to, just not sexually. It's the lack of sexual urges to women that really scares me. Imagine getting married and then coming to have sex on the honeymoon and being physically incapable of performing (My religion is one where sex does not occur before marriage btw, so I'm still a virgin to either men or woman). I've been fighting the urge to sleep with a man because I'm worried I'll like it too much and then never ever be able to go back to woman but since I don't have romantic feelings towards men, I'll never be enotionally fulfilled with a man either. So now I'm having to choose between sexual fulfillment and emotional fulfillment. One last point. I told my best friend over a week ago that I am gay. He's been nothing short of amazing about it. He literally never skipped a beat. It's like nothing has changed between us at all. He even has begun telling me we should go to gay bars and now when talking about women's bodies, he'll comment about mens for me. I.e he will be like "When a girl puts her breasts out it's the hottest thing ever, it's like when a guy has really good pecs in your case". Like making an active effort to totally adopt that I'm gay. But it's been bothering me for over a week now and I couldn't understand why. Here is my best friend totally accepting me for who "I am" but yet I have so much deep regret for telling him. I actually wish I never said anything. I think I finally realized why it's been bothering me so much. It's because I am lying to myself. If I really was gay, his response should have made me feel so happy about it. However it didn't. It made me feel like I was lying about who I am and now I can't take it back. Like if I end up with a girl, he will forever be thinking but I'm gay. Anyone have any thoughts they can kindly share. I'm bearing my heart here, I never ever told anyone this stuff in my life. Even writing it down, the sexual abuse part was incredibly difficult for me to relive. Thank you
Hello! Your situation does seem quite confusing, so I don't know if I can really be of help but I'll try. First of all, I am sorry to hear that you had to go through abuse as a child. I have no idea if that has a link with the other things you talked about, but if you think it could, maybe a good (don't hesitate to try several if one makes you uncomfortable!!!) therapist could help you entangle that if you have the means to see one. About your friend: explaining to him that you are not sure that you are gay would be a good idea if you worry about what he thinks. Maybe he will be a bit confused, but seeing his supportive reaction to your coming out, with a good talk he should hopefully at least try to understand. Have you thought about the possibility of being attracted to both genders? You said you feel hetero-romantic but homosexual. You also mention having had a slight reaction watching lesbian porn. If you feel more attracted to men than to women, being bisexual is still a possibility. A question to consider is how do you feel about hetero porn? Do you tend to watch more the women, the men, or both? Do you also skip the foreplay and scenario parts? (I personally always skip the scenario no matter who I am watching) I know that you denied the option of internalised homophobia, but when I saw the word "repulsed," that is the first thing I thought of... I am not saying it is, because I lack a lot of information and knowledge on that, but maybe you do not realise it because it is too internalised? Also, if that can reassure you a tiny bit, a "failure to perform" also happens to men who fully identify as heterosexual as well; knowing that does not make the problem go away if it happens, but maybe it can be comforting to know. Hope these suggestions can help you think about it a bit more!
Have you been in therapy for the sexual abuse? I am not a therapist but I recommend one in this case to help you get more clarity concerning your sexual orientation. The sexual abuse can still have an influence on your feelings for men today without you realizing it.
Hi, and welcome. I'm really glad you're here... you're definitely in the right place. So first, to address the sexual abuse issue, there's no data (and this has been looked at pretty extensively) to support the idea that being sexually abused as a child changes sexual orientation. In other words, if you were straight before the abuse, you're still straight afterward. If you were gay before the abuse, you're still gay. What is true is that sexual abuse often causes people to analyze and consider their sexual attraction and orientation earlier in life than others. Now... on to the childhood play. Actually... what you are describing is completely, totally normal. A very large percentage of boys (and many girls as well) "play doctor" as children, and this can include getting naked, touching, and so forth. It is usually innocent, and probably isn't particularly notable in terms of your sexual orientation at present. Now.. onto the current issues: Porn isn't a particularly reliable indicator of sexual orientation in one way or another. What is far more reliable is masturbation fantasies you create in your mind when you masturbate without porn. If you're used to always using porn, this might not be the easiest for you to do at first, but if you give it some time, the ability to create fantasies in your mind should be there. So basically what you want to do is see whether fantasies about men create strong arousal and excitement when you're masturbating, and then, in a separate session, try the same thing thinking about women. One or the other will generally create a much stronger sense of arousal. That's going to be the most reliable indicator. From what you have described, I suspect that you're going to find that the fantasies of thinking about guys are going to be what's arousing, and fantasies about women will not arouse you. If this is the case, then your attractions are mostly or entirely toward men, which means you're gay. The fact that you already told someone that would tend to indicate that you already, at some level, know that, but are having difficulty accepting it. Most people, when they start confronting the idea they may not be straight, aren't happy about it. No one wants to be gay. And additionally,y when we start to consider that we might not be straight, the loss of that perception is something we process in stages (denial-anger-bargaining-depression-acceptance), which can take a few minutes... to a few months... or longer. They're also not sequential; one can go back and forth between stages. Additionally, the revulsion you describe when thinking about being in a relationship with a man is a learned response, part of the denial and anger; also a very common response. (There is no credible evidence to support the idea of a discordant separation between sexual and romantic orientation; this is pretty much something that's appeared in past 5 or so years, and is generally a coping strategy that appears during the bargaining phase.) What is commonly described as "romantic attraction" is actually simply 'emotionally intimate friendship', and many gay men have very deep, close friendships with women; it doesn't make them any less gay. As for your response to your friend... assuming that the masturbation test above comes out as it most likely will... it's less "If I really was gay, I'd be happy with his response" and more "Oh fuck. This is real. And this isn't what I want at all." Which... is consistent with someone who is going between the denial and bargaining stages (again, a very typical part of the coming out process.) Finally, your reluctance to explore sex with a man because "I'm worried I'll like it too much" is also support for the idea that you already know you're gay. If you were straight, and hooked up with a guy... it wouldn't get you excited in the slightest, and you wouldn't worry about "not being able to go back". Likewise, avoiding taking action with another guy isn't going to not make you gay, keep you from being gay, suppress the gay feelings, or anything else. All it will do is make you miserable. So... the tough thing here is... you need to spend time figuring out where your authentic sexual arousal and attractions lie. See what the masturbation experiments do for you, think about it, and I think things will become clearer for you. Now... at the end of the day, only you can know whether you're straight or gay. And it will likely take some time to figure that out for sure. Just, as much as you can, relax and be curious about what you're feeling, and open to possibilities, as difficult as that may sound. Feel free to post more, and let us know how things are going.
Thank you for the incredibly thorough response. I really appreciate how you broke down each point step by step. I think what my next step is going to be is to try and abstain from all porn and masturbation for a few months until I have a "reset". I've never actually tried a full few months long reset but I have abstained from gay porn and masturbation for about 30 days at one point. What I found is the longer I didn't watch gay porn, the more I could see myself with a woman. It did not stop me from being sexually attracted to men, but it made a VERY noticeable difference in how confident I felt in my attraction to woman. I did cave and watch gay porn again and it was like a switch went back to wanting to have sex with a man only. Something I find interesting is that no matter how sexually aroused I am, as soon as I cum I no longer am sexually attracted to men. I become actually disgusted by what I'm watching. I know it's a normal sexual response to not want sex after orgasming and that most people feel shame after watching porn, but to go from hell yeah I want to have sex with the hottest guys to what the heck was I just watching, it feels like something else is there. It's not just a not wanting porn, it becomes a why was I watching that. Then after a few months of not watching porn or masturbating, I want to see where I stand. I know for a fact that I am attracted to men sexually and that isn't something that will suddenly change. However I want to see, can I be sexually aroused by woman. I've been watching nothing but gay porn since I was in junior high. My brain has learned to associate gay porn with arousal to the point I can't even get aroused without watching porn. Therefore I am hoping this "reset" will return my ability to fantasize again and at that point I want to try and fantasize about women and see what comes about. I am most definitely NOT straight but maybe there is a possibility I'm bisexual as someone has mentioned above. I don't feel like I can call myself gay. Maybe it's because I'm scared. But more than that, I feel like calling myself gay is a lie. Just like calling myself straight is a lie. So I want to try and do the reset and see where I stand. Thank you so much for your very thorough response and I really appreciate all your talking points. I have nevet watched heterosexual porn in my life. I find the woman in porn to be a very inaccurate representation of actual woman and it grosses me out. It's strange but I feel dirty watching straight porn but not gay porn. I know this sounds like me being grossed out by womans bodies but I'm not, it's moreso the women in porn in my mind are just weird. I have considered the possibility but I've never tried to explore it. I most definitely will in the way I outlined it above. No I haven't. It's always grossed me out but I always figured that it didn't have lasting impacts on me. Maybe it did and I don't yet realize it yet. As mentioned above, studies haven't shown a link between sexual abuse and sexual orientation, however I still believe that sexual abuse can confuse sexual identity and make people feel they are attracted to something and not something else. It's definitely something to look into.
As I already wrote I am not a therapist so I am not going to interfere in your discussion with Chip. I know studies haven't shown a link between sexual abuse and sexual orientation. But I know my childhood experiences (not sexual abuse but emotional neglect, emotional abuse, and sometimes physical abuse, mother not able to bond and dangerous for my emotional health, father rarely at home and VERY controlling behaviour, I never really felt safe in the house) confused me concerning my sexual orientation. That's why I mentioned it.
I'm very sorry to hear about your rough upbringing. I hope you will find ways to heal, if not heal to at least cope! I was agreeing with you that despite studies not showing a direct link, that I still felt that exposing children to inappropriate sexual contact/abuse can significantly impact their sexual identity. Kind of how someone who grew up with abusive parents might seek out abusive relationships.
[ So I have bad news for you. There's no "reset switch" with masturbation that will change sexual orientation. There are a couple of websites out there promoting utterly unscientific baloney that make these sorts of claims, but the research on the topic is solid. Thus, it's utterly pointless to give up masturbation (and, actually, unhealthy, as orgasm has beneficial effects on the brain and other systems that cannot be gained any other way.) Additionally... the "It didn't stop me from being sexually attracted to men" part is telling here: I hate to burst your bubble, but from what you are describing, you aren't straight. So you can basically make yourself miserable for months or years trying various ridiculous schemes... but nothing is going to change your attraction to men. A normal and, actually, expected response for someone who is in denial and vehemently does not want to be gay. When you are masturbating, your unconscious mind, where your sexual arousal/attraction is located, is front-and-center. As soon as you ejaculate, that part goes offline and conscious mind comes back online. Hence the revulsion, complete with the "why was I watching that" and all of the rest of the mind games. This goes away as an individual begins to accept himself. Again, I hate to rain on your parade, but It isn't going to happen. That isn't how it works. Now... if you want to waste 6 months trying, of course, that's your perogative. But in probably thousands of people here at EC over the years who have said basically the same thing, I don't know a single one who has ever had the desired response. And all the time you're doing this... you're wasting the opportunity to begin moving forward with your life. This would change if you stopped watching porn for a week or two. Don't stop masturbating, just stop watching porn. It may not work terribly well (or at all) the first few times, but it will come back soon enough. And at that point, if you're a glutton for punishment, you can fantasize about women... but given what you've said above, it's pretty clear that's a lost cause. You may be able to convince yourself and rationalize that you're bisexual, and marry a woman. But unless your masturbation experiences without porn show an equal level of arousal when thinking about women as they do when thinking about men, you're wasting your tome. And, btw, I don't mean furiously beating your meat until it almost falls off in order to be able to ejaculate; I mean genuinely equal levels of arousal and excitement. Here's the issue: If you convince yourself you're bi, and go out and find some woman, convince yourself you're in love, and marry her... most likely you'll end up, 5 or 10 or 20 years from now, figuring out you've spent that time lying to yourself. By that point, you've wasted your time, your wife's time, and created an incredible amount of pain for everyone. Before you even consider that, please take some time and read a bunch of the threads in the 'later in life' section, as it's full of people that have done exactly what you're doing here... and it never ends up well. Probably. What you're describing, through these posts, is textbook classic denial. And unfortunately... people who are in denial usually don't listen to reason, ignore facts, rationalize away information that doesn't fit with what they want. But to the extent you can... keep that in mind, and maybe save yourself a whole lot of heartache.[/quote]
I just sort of feel the need to say that if you want to try to stop masturbating for a few months, go on ahead. I'm actually supportive of this, because I've done it before when I was having some very negative fantasies that were negatively affecting my life and, frankly, it helped a lot. Masturbation is healthy, but not having it isn't going to kill you or wreck your health. There is no reset button to switch your sexual orientation, but in my personal experience abstaining from certain sexual fantasies (and masturbation, if you need to) can more or less reset some of your fantasies. I'm sorry about what you went through with your father . . . mine was abusive and an alcoholic (later a meth addict), and how he treated my mother has had a very strong impact on my life as a whole--especially my romantic life. When I turned thirteen I was sexually abused by someone, and here's the thing--that did have an impact on my sexuality. Not my orientation, but my fantasies, and what I could get off to. Maybe I'm accidentally putting my own experiences onto you, but I do wonder if your fantasies are actually a coping mechanism and not a sexual orientation? There's just a lot of what you're saying, regarding your fantasies, that reminds me a lot of my own experiences. If I'm being honest then my train of thought probably wouldn't make 100% sense unless I were to tell the whole story, but I'm not up to doing that here (maybe in a PM though, if you think it would help you). I want to be totally clear here: I'm not fully disagreeing with Chip at all. And, to be honest, there's a lot of what you're saying that really does sound a whole lot like denial and internalized homophobia, which I think you should try to work through anyway. . . . The main thing I am saying is that I think there is a possibility that what you are experiencing isn't necessarily sexual orientation, but your mind's way of coping with trauma.
I can relate to it very much. I myself am a man who is intellectually, emotionally and romantically attracted to women. I've had relationships that got further than "just friends", but unfortunately my sexual desires don't wake up, and sometimes the fact that I cannot give her intimate love makes me wanna cry. With men, it's totally different. I haven't yet met (I'm 40 now) a man with whom I could achieve the same level of closeness as with women. Also, my sexual desires for men are very narrow and fragile and can turn into repulsion just because he changes clothes or shows a photo from his younger days (I'm exclusively attracted only to older men with specific looks and behavior). Porn doesn't work for me at all, only very specific fantasies do, however, those are not sexual fantasies but something emotional or surreal, like getting myself a body of an older man. I can say that my sexual reactions are caused only by craving to be a different person and be accepted by other men, but not by desire for sex "as such". That's all so messed up. But hey, the life is weird...
