1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Do you regret divorcing and/or coming out?

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by JToivonen, May 30, 2019.

  1. JToivonen

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2019
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    160
    Location:
    Brazil
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    A quick update about this therapy I tried last weekend:

    Actually my sister got it all wrong, and so did I. It's no conversion therapy. What the therapist proposes is a reconstruction in the sense of me being able to understand who I really am and how I was "built" along my lifetime (not sure if it made any sense). She, the therapist, doesn't want to change me - quite the opposite, she wants me to understand how I ended up where I am, so I can be true to myself, to who I really am, and then I'll be able to rebuild myself, by getting rid of the lies I've told (others and myself)and disguises I've put on. I asked her specifically about how she felt about gay people and she said there's nothing wrong about being gay. I was very assertive, so I asked her again and again if she thought being gay was wrong or sick or sinful and her answer was always "no". I also questioned her "what if in the end of all this I came to the conclusion that I'm really gay?" and she said "that's fine, as long as you are honest to yourself". So it made me feel more comfortable and I'll be seeing her again this next Friday.

    After I left her office, I asked my sister (who's a conservative Christian, although she's more liberal than the rest of my family) if she was open to all possible outcomes. Like, if I were truly gay. She said she'd be fine too, as long as I'm happy. But, as we talked, I realised there are some strings attached to it...

    She said she hopes that I'll stay married and won't "turn out gay" and that she's doing all she can (including affording my tickets to her town and the therapy itself) so that, if I do separate and come out, she'll have a clean conscious. She won't feel guilty, in the sense that she'd feel she'd done all she could to avoid this scenario. I'm not saying that she doesn't love me or care about me...but, in a sense, she wants me to be happy according to what she thinks it's right.

    She also told me that, if I do come out, I'd still be her brother and she'd still love me. But she'd never accept a male partner of mine. She wouldn't have him over in her house. She wouldn't want him to be part of her life. He'd no more than just as an acquaintance. I thought "that's tough to take!" , but I said nothing. And she's the most liberal person in my family...so I can only imagine how hard all the other (my mother included) would treat me.
     
    justaguyinsf and FooFight54 like this.
  2. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I have a little experience with this.

    I was raised in a very Catholic family. When I started dating my wife, who was not Catholic, my parents shut off most contact with me for nearly a year. Many family members boycotted our wedding.

    Well. It turns out gay runs in my family. I have 3 gay siblings.

    My parents changed. They love their children and are now, in their 80's, LGBQT advocates. They've even given up the Church for their children.

    I hope your family can do this. I would have never believed my family would be be wearing rainbow shirts in a Fourth of July parade in a conservative small town. But, that's what we're doing.

    You just can only hope your family will support you. But, you can't live your life by their standards either.

    Maybe your family will step up!
     
  3. justaguyinsf

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2016
    Messages:
    603
    Likes Received:
    375
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    I have a good friend who moved to the US from Brazil about 20 years. He tried marriage to a woman here, but after a couple of years divorced and eventually came out as gay. He is now married to a man, and they've been together about 15 years or so. (Btw, he and his husband have had their own share of marital problems but they now seem to be pretty happy and satisfied together). It's interesting because your description of your family and your relationships with them remind me of his family ... very strongly conservative Christians who have really had a hard time accepting his homosexuality. It sounds like his mother is starting to accept his being gay and is also now willing to come and stay with my friend and his husband, but I don't think my friend's father will ever accept it. I think his family's nonacceptance bothers him quite a bit, but I also think he's generally pretty happy.
     
    JToivonen likes this.
  4. Chiroptera

    Admin Team Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2014
    Messages:
    2,505
    Likes Received:
    1,383
    Location:
    Brazil
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Oh, if that's the case and she is a real therapist, then good! It might be helpful. It's basically the same type of therapy than the one you were doing before?

    As for your sister and family, of course, it isn't great that they aren't accepting, but at least she seems willing to talk to you. Besides, who knows, maybe she will change her mind in the future? Maybe after understanding your feelings better and living with an openly gay brother, she will be able to see that there's nothing wrong in being LGBT+.

    In the end, this is about you and your feelings. I'm not saying you need to completely ignore or fight your family, but you have your own life, and you shouldn't feel obligated to live in a way that is the way others want you to live, instead of living according to your own feelings.

    My own parents, while accepting, never had access or interest in information about the LGBT+ community before I came out. After I did, they started to read more about it and my mother even joined a group of mothers of LGBT+ people. They still have some misconceptions, but they learned much since I came out. Of course, it's a different context and family but, in time, maybe your sister and family will learn that being LGBT+ is ok. Like I said, the fact that she is willing to talk to you is a good start. :slight_smile:
     
    JToivonen likes this.
  5. JToivonen

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2019
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    160
    Location:
    Brazil
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I sincerely hope for it to be true. I know it might happen someday, but I'm not counting on that.
     
  6. JToivonen

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2019
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    160
    Location:
    Brazil
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Funny thing is, I think in my case my father would accept it faster than my mother. She's very, very conservative, bit he is more of a progressive, a liberal, leaning very much to the left. I know it'd be shocking for him to have a gay son, but he's the one who says no one should suffer any kind of prejudice, so I might get some acceptance from him.
     
  7. JToivonen

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2019
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    160
    Location:
    Brazil
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    That's true, at least she's open for conversation. And she's not very judgemental. So who knows?

    I'll keep seeing my current psychologist while start seeing this new one. The one that lives in my city is more of a listener. I mean, I tell him how my weekend went on and then he gives me some insights. The psychologist who live in a different town is more of a councillor, in the sense that she'll do more of an "invasive" job. Invasive is not the word...I guess she's going to ask me more than just listen. I don't know if it made any sense.

    Like I believe she's going to give me real tools in order for me to build a path to be who I am. With my current psychologist I think is more of a place where I go, talk and then he says things for me to think about.

    Yeah, this explanation sucked, I know! Hahahaha
     
    #127 JToivonen, Jun 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  8. Chiroptera

    Admin Team Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2014
    Messages:
    2,505
    Likes Received:
    1,383
    Location:
    Brazil
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I get it, don't worry. :slight_smile:

    Have you talked to your first therapist about this? If the second one is registered on the CFP (in other words, a true professional), then, yes, that is much less problematic than it would be if you were seeing a charlatain that could harm you. However, I'm not sure if seeing two therapists at the same time is recommended (just like in the way you don't usually see two different doctors because of the same issue). Honestly, I can't affirm if this is ok or not, but you should talk to your first therapist to make sure this is a good idea. Otherwise, it may be more confusing than helpful.
     
  9. JToivonen

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2019
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    160
    Location:
    Brazil
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I was worried about that too, I must say...but I didn't have time to talk to him about it, because I usually meet him on Tuesdays and my sister offered me to go to this second therapist on the following Wednesday, so I saw her on the Saturday after.
     
  10. Chiroptera

    Admin Team Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2014
    Messages:
    2,505
    Likes Received:
    1,383
    Location:
    Brazil
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Understood! But make sure to mention this on the next appointment, to avoid any issues. Therapy is great and I definitely recommend it but, like when using a medication, it must be done properly or it may end up complicating things.
     
    JToivonen likes this.
  11. JToivonen

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2019
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    160
    Location:
    Brazil
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    You know what? I just realised something I want to share with you.

    As you well know now, I want to be openly gay and separate, but I have this huge sense of responsibility and guilt about leaving...and, because of that, I'm stuck in a hope that I may overcome all this and stay happily married, because leaving her would be too painful.

    So this new therapist was talking to me about certain things last Saturday, and now I just had this insight:

    My father left my mother when I was six. And I had all the issues of not having my father around. And I saw how intensively my mother suffered because of him. So, from a very early age, I promised myself that I'd never cause this much pain to any woman or to my family. So I came to realise; maybe that's why it's so difficult for me to leave!

    And also, as everyone here knows how conservative my family is, I grew up listening to all these stories about how much of a jerk my father is, so I hated him until I was 18 years old. Then I realised "he's not perfect, but he's the only father I have. So I can spend the rest of my life hating him and crying over the father I never had, or I can start a new story now". So I forgave him. Our relationship improved greatly and I, for the first time, had the chance to hear his side of the story. I'm not saying he didn't do anything wrong (because he did), but he's not the devil some members of my family told me (funny, my mother never said anything bad about him - on the contraire, she always told me to love him no matter what).

    Anyway, I told this story because, as I said, people said to me my father was a jerk and I never wanted to be like him. And everytime I think about leaving, I feel I'm the bad guy, the worst person in the world, the most selfish man who's ever walked on Earth. So I see myself as a villain and I can't forgive myself because of that.

    So maybe that's why the second therapist told me some of my ideas are "contaminated" and that we'd have to clean them so I could move on...wow, I hadn't really understood that up to now!
     
    #131 JToivonen, Jun 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  12. Chiroptera

    Admin Team Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2014
    Messages:
    2,505
    Likes Received:
    1,383
    Location:
    Brazil
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    That makes sense. It's good that you are exploring these feelings in therapy, so you may process them and better understand your feelings. :slight_smile:

    Breaking up with someone is never easy, and being married certainly complicates things. Still, there are many different cases and contexts where a break up may happen, and it's hard to blame everyone without understanding what happened (also also understanding that there are different sides of the story). From what you are saying, it seems that your case is very different from what happened to your parents, as it's about your own feelings and orientation (and, although you did explain what happened, I assume your father was a different case, right?).

    So, yes, you aren't evil or bad for feeling like you are now, and, if you decide to break up, that is still not an evil decision. It is certainly not easy, but living miserably and repressing yourself for the rest of your life isn't healthy, for anyone involved in the relationship. Don't feel bad for being you.

    And, although I recommend you talk to your first therapist about this and sort it out on how the therapy should work, keep exploring these feelings in therapy. It certainly helps.
     
    JToivonen likes this.
  13. JToivonen

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2019
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    160
    Location:
    Brazil
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Yeah, his case was different, but I honestly don't know much...the few things I know is that he was never really welcomed in my mother's family. Since he came from a poor family, he was viewed with suspicion. And apparently he had affairs with other women from day one. He even had a girlfriend when he got married to my mother...so yes, our cases are totally different.

    I'm still to find a way to break the cycle of guilt that stops me from moving on. Hopefully, someday I will. I just wished it happened sooner.
     
    #133 JToivonen, Jun 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  14. Highlander2

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    116
    Location:
    UK
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I've been out for 6 years now. I was married and with my ex-wife for almost 19 years, with two children.

    I didn't plan it. I didn't believe I was gay. I didn't think it was something, despite having gay thoughts, that I couldn't control and that the phases came and went.

    The process of coming out to her was traumatic and very quick from the realisation and acceptance that I was gay, to telling her, in a matter of a week. That added to the trauma I went through over the following months, I have no doubt now about that.

    Add in to that a couple of relationships with guys over the last six years that left me feeling less than fulfilled or valued, and I look back at my old life.

    I met a man, a couple of years ago, that I am going to marry next year. My fiance isn't perfect. He leaves his clothes lying on the bedroom floor. He leaves the milk outside the fridge. He leaves paperwork lying on the table. He's often late for things. He can be stubborn. He can be argumentative.

    But.

    When I lie next to him and see his face and eyes looking back at me, his smile, and the touch of his hand on my face or my skin...when he takes my head in his hands and kisses me, when he wraps his arms around me and squeezes me..., when we go out for dinner and he reaches under the table and strokes my leg...when he cuddles up to me in bed and wraps an arm and hairy leg over me and I feel him pressing into my back (!), when we plan our life together and I feel happy and feel like being with him is the most natural thing in the world...


    Then the life I had, good though it was (but different), had something missing from it. I have that something now. And while there are days I could cheerfully scream at him to pick his socks and shorts off the floor, and does he not see the washing basket at the end of the bed, I wouldn't go back. I couldn't go back. The feelings I had for my ex-wife switched off the second I accepted I was gay, and while I care about her and love her as a friend, I didn't desire her from that moment on. We have a good relationship, and I see and look after my children regularly and they are part of my new family with him too.

    But I wouldn't go back. Tough though the times have been, and I wished that there had been a different and less hurtful way to make that change - and there's likely to be tough times ahead too - what I have now was what I wanted for all those years.
     
  15. JToivonen

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2019
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    160
    Location:
    Brazil
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Wow, that was really inspiring!

    That's exactly how I feel sometimes. One day, she was the love of life, the other, she wasn't anymore...I have a really hard time accepting it (and so does she, obviously)...I just can't understand what happened. I mean, even though I felt like I wanted to be somewhere else during a considerable part of my marriage (this thought itself creates a lot of guilt inside of me) and I've longed for guys all the time (even when I wouldn't admit it to myself), my feelings towards her changed so, so fast... I'm still trying to figure out what happened.
     
    NotTooLoud and FooFight54 like this.
  16. nerdbrain

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2014
    Messages:
    536
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    New York City
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Questioning
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I have thought a lot about this subject myself, since I still have a strong emotional attachment to my ex wife. My theory is that my feelings for her are a kind of projection of my feelings for my mother. I feel warm and reassured in her presence, and I want to protect her and keep her from harm. But sex is off the table. In many ways, I relate to her as a little boy.

    I don’t feel that way towards the cis and trans women I date. I relate to them as an adult man (more or less), and I enjoy playing the dominant role sexually.
     
    NotTooLoud and JToivonen like this.
  17. NotTooLoud

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    156
    Location:
    Washington state
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I suspect that what happened is that you felt something you have never felt before, something so overpowering and wonderful that you just didn't want to let it pass you by -- as you had before, because you would not allow yourself to let it in. Now, you just can't go back, and who in their right mind would want to?
     
  18. Contented

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,471
    Likes Received:
    2,341
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Like so many others once I acknowledged my attraction to another man and had sexual relations it was as if a switch had been thrown. I no longer had any desire to be with a woman. I wanted out of my straight relationship, which happened rather quickly. I am now living the life I had always dreamed of with a man that made that dream a reality. Never ever have looked back.