Hi everybody, I've been a long time lurker on EC and find it to be an incredibly useful place. I'm 20 years old. I considered myself straight until I was 15, when I started to develop intense sexual fantasies about older men (25-35) and started watching gay porn (and loving it). Before this I felt like the typical straight guy and had intense crushes on girls in my class. Throughout the rest of high school, I continued to assume I was mostly straight with a little bisexual side. I even developed an intense romantic interest in a girl when I was 18 but it wasn't particularly sexual I don't think. But now at age 20 I'm finally starting to question if instead of being a little bi, I might be totally or mostly gay. This comes as a result of my extremely underwhelming experiences with women. I lost my virginity at 18, I had trouble getting and staying hard but I managed to get hard enough to penetrate and I ejaculated soon after. I remember feeling underwhelmed, I always thought it would be amazing sleep with a woman but I found it kind of boring. Playing with her boobs seemed kind of pointless and I was just going through the motions. I have since gotten into bed with three more women, but could only get hard for one of them. It may just be performance anxiety as I sometimes got erections when kissing them or during heavy flirting, but when it came down to actual sex I found their bodies to be unexciting. I preferred just kissing and cuddling. But they are usually more into it than me, last week I was kissing a girl that I had gone on a date with (I think she's cute but I don't really imagine sex with her) and she was really getting into it, kind of moaning and breathing very heavily whereas I was no where near as into it. It might be performance anxiety but I just don't really pursue sex with women and generally feel uncomfortable when it happens, I kind of know I will have trouble getting hard and aroused. Quite often I think I fabricate crushes on women because as soon as they like me back I lose interest and I never really care when things break down. I enjoy both straight and gay porn. Usually when watching straight porn my focus is either on the girl or the penis as the male actors are not usually attractive to me. This often makes me think I am definitely attracted to girls as I get aroused by girls in porn and think how great it would be to fuck them, but then I think back to how bland my experiences with women felt and get confused. I don't watch porn much but I'd say 90% of the porn I watch is gay, I rationalised this to myself as me checking wether I find males attractive, but this has been going on for 5 years now hahaha, could be denial talking. I generally find both types of porn very arousing, but then there's some days where gay porn gets me on a whole other level of arousal that straight porn never does. I waaaaaay prefer dick to pussy, and boobs are meh to me. Nothing gets me more hot and bothered than the sight of a hairy muscular mans body. But then when I am out in real life its really only girls who catch my eye. I constantly find it hard not to stare at beautiful woman, but I don't know if this is just more a conditioned admiration than real sexual desire. I never meet men I find attractive in real life, there are pornstars, celebrities and even guys I've chatted with on apps that I'd love to sleep with, but then when I see guys in real life I just can't find them sexually attractive. There has been rare occasions where I would find a guy attractive in real life though. With guys, I've never had a crush I've recognised as a crush. And I'd feel uncomfortable having sex with any guy I know. There have been certain feelings that may have been crushes in hindsight. For example when I was 16 I was completely obsessed with Kurt Cobain. I wanted to be exactly like him, I wanted to look like him. I used to admire how his face looked, but I never considered this as a celebrity crush. But in hindsight it maybe it was exactly that. Then a couple of years ago I developed a similar obsession with Frank Ocean, but then maybe as I have started to recognise my same sex desires more I did fantasise about him sexually sometimes. I've never developed an obsession over a female celebrity. Then there's my close friendships. When I was 12-14 I was inseparable with a guy in my class. I remember I used to admire how good looking he was but didn't see this as sexual attraction. I remember fantasising about him one or two times but it just felt kind of strange. When he started to make more friends and gradually distanced himself from me I was completely heartbroken. I actually cried so much over this (something I only remembered very recently), but maybe that's just a normal reaction to feeling rejected by a close friend. Then a year ago, me and one of my very best friends for nearly 4 years were both back in our hometown from our different universities. We sometimes just go on drives listening to music. But after I dropped him off and knew I wouldn't see him for a few months I cried the whole drive home. Again maybe this is just a platonic attachment but it felt so different to anything I've ever felt before. But then the thought of doing anything sexual with this friend kind of grosses me out as we are such good friends. I've never had such feelings of attachment with girls I'm dating. I enjoy their company but it generally feels empty and when the time comes to make them my girlfriend or stop seeing them, I always stop seeing them. Most of my fantasies without porn are probably gay, and I've had a number of gay dreams (including sex with a friend) but I never really have heterosexual sex dreams. There has been a lot of dreams where I'm about to have sex with a woman but then something happens to stop it or I wake up. Also whenever I have gotten high, I turn extremely gay. Like I desire a man more than Ive ever desired anything ever, almost like I need it. I have had one gay experience, I met a man who was a bit older than me through an app and gave him oral sex. I was almost shaking with fear though and couldn't stop concentrate. It felt incredibly rushed and I wasn't ready. It was not good as I felt so embarrassed and couldn't stop worrying. But then when I got home all I could think was how I wanted to go back and have sex with him. The memory is so arousing to me now even though I was too nervous to enjoy at the time. I masturbate to the fantasy of having sex with him all the time, and I never fantasise about past female partners. Sorry for such a long post, I would really appreciate any thoughts your have on my situation (PS. Chip if you read this I find your comments on other posts to be incredibly insightful, I would love to hear what you think about my situation). On days where I tell myself I am gay, I feel a profound sense of relief, and a lot of my tenseness and unhappiness suddenly lifts, but I don't know if I really am. I want to be because then everything would make a lot more sense. But yeah to summarise, I'm more turned on by male bodies and the idea of gay sex, but never find men in real life attractive whereas I constantly check out women, despite sex with women being boring to me. Thanks! )
Hey there wanttoknow. First of all welcome to Empty Closets. Please feel free to get in touch with any staff member if you have questions or need help in navigating the forum. That said, I’d want to pen down my two cents after reading your long post. So please bear with me while I respond to the different things you mentioned. It isn’t uncommon for people who are initially questioning (or still questioning) their sexuality and/or gender to experiment in order to figure out what they think they are. So it can be confusing to pinpoint in a short time. Some people figure it out quickly while others can take years before they’re ready to accept it for themselves before coming out to the world about it. As per your experience, as you’ve mentioned, with women, if you felt that it was underwhelming and you felt you don’t have the interest (initial interest) you thought you did, it can very well be possible you don’t have sexual attraction towards women. Might you still find women romantically attractive? Perhaps. That is something I think you can explore if you want to. However, even attraction to women could be something you might’ve wanted to merely explore or experiment with? It is possible you aren’t attracted to them at all, and merely assumed you were. In terms of what you think might be your performance anxiety and your experiences thereof, just to point out a similar experience I’ve had. I find men attractive and have gone to bed with a few of them. However apart from kissing and a bit of bodyplay (fellatio included), penetration or mutual-masturbation wasn’t something I was into with either of them. I got soft quite quickly and couldn’t ejaculate at all. While it did baffle me initially, now I’ve just come to terms with the fact that I can orgasm or ejaculate when other men try it on me, It’s something I do only on my own. So it could be a preference and not any “problem” if you think it is (I don’t mean to insinuate that you consider it to be a problem). When it comes to porn, whether heterosexual or homosexual porn, it usually isn’t a good indicator of sexual attractiveness or affinity. Arousal towards nude women in porn doesn’t necessarily need to mean that you find women attractive in real life and the same can be said for nude men in porn as well. We tend to focus on a lot of things, so it isn’t easy for us to pinpoint what exactly made us look twice or focus on it. As for attractive guys in real life, yes. I find a lot of people attractive too. But then I’ve come to a comfortable state where I know instantly and can distinguish between my level of attraction to them. There is the silent attraction or admiration towards masculine perfectness that I find in pornstars, billboard models, actors and other “attractive” people. I know I look twice at them and turn back to look at them because I find them to be physically attractive. There could also be the “I know I can never reach them” part that makes me disinterested beyond ogling them, since I know they aren’t approachable and the chance of any of them having any relationship with me (physical or otherwise) is minute. The other kind is people I meet on apps, at LGBT gatherings and other places. I get to know them as people first, attractiveness put aside. If I do happen to find them physically attractive even after that, I do pursue them and try to see if a relationship works out. Because in my mind, it is attainable. I do think you are gay, and that your attraction to women, while it exists, isn’t to that level that you could be bisexual. That said, it is merely my opinion and I could be wrong. Take care
hi phoenix90, thanks for your thoughtful response! regarding the 'performance anxiety', it isn't that it is a preference for me. I usually get some sort of erection during foreplay with women but it is rarely fully hard and goes quite quickly. I've never been that turned on in bed with a woman, but this could just be nervousness blocking arousal. I don't get what you mean regarding the attractive guys in real life. I rarely see guys in real life that I want to have sex with, its almost like my brain won't allow it, whereas women catch my eye a lot, but it might be just some social conditioning as I've found women to be unexciting when actually in bed. I hope that if I am gay, which I suspect I am, as I come to accept it more and gain more experience with guys I can get over what ever is blocking me from embracing guys in real life.
hi contented, I suspect that this may be the case. Its frustrating though as in my conscious mind I want to embrace me being gay, however my subconscious is still playing tricks on me
Even though your first physical experience with a guy did not go that great, and given many first time experiences do not go as expected, have you considering trying to meet another guy? But instead of meeting someone random, how about getting to know someone that you can be comfortable with (and safe)? If your with someone you know and trust, it might lead to a very different type of experience for you.
I would sammy you are on the spectrum closer to gay, and that is fine. I am like you in that I find women attractive, but after a while, boobs get boring. There have been times when I was in the moment and could not finish, till I thought of putting my hands down a guys pants. The o ly problem with porn is it does distort reality. Most of those situations never happen naturally. It is a good barometer to what you like. Ivl find myself more attracted to the penis in pirn than the pussy. My main attraction down that rabbit hole was trans open.
Hey, First, welcome to EC. Always nice to have people "de-lurk" and join the community and participate. I don't hear much of anything in what you (OP) have written above that would indicate that you're straight, or really, even bi. What I'm hearing are pretty clear signs on all sides that your attractions, fantasies, desires are all for men. So, based on what you've written above, it would be hard for me to come up with any conclusion other than that you're gay. The places where you've questoned, and the experiences you've had with women all sound like the situation of someone who is still grappling with acceptance of being gay, rather than any genuine attraction to the opposite sex. Keep in mind that our conscious mind plays tricks, as most of us aren't thrilled at first glance with the idea that we might be gay. But I think if you were to re-read what you wrote above, and pretend you were reading someone else's story... I think it would be pretty clear to you.
thanks for your reply! yes, I do think I am gay, although I still have a hard time accepting this even though I want to. the main thing I find confusing is that I rarely if ever feel obvious sexual attraction to guys in real life, whereas I am drawn to attractive women. could this just be a product of social conditioning and my subconscious still fighting being gay even though my conscious mind wants to embrace it?
Yes, my guess is social conditioning and internalized homophobia. Let's face it, everyone has fear about rejection, and gay folks have just a bit more than many other folks.
i am much older than you but a lot of your post resonates, so maybe this will help... Yes on considering myself straight i don't know how you realized it, but when I first discovered masturbation, I remember 'trying' to orgasm about girls and it was so difficult -but then, out of nowhere, i thought about 'the gay kid' ... just giving me a blow job and I came in literally in 10 seconds... I was so embarassed about it - even to myself, but then just thought it was a 'mistake', felt horrible.. weeks went by it was still very hard to climax masturbating about girls - then I imagined giving him a blow job... .. again like 30 seconds.. porn - even chip will agree- is not tied into sex. yes sounds familiar.. yes, sometimes...a lot of the time i had to close my eyes and think about a guy. but sometimes it was fun and that's where the confusion sets in. yes i would not use porn as an indicator. Here is where I might say, and Chip will probably disagree- its possible this is a fetish or fantasy...I am attracted to all sorts of women my gay fantasies are about one type of guy. I will disagree with people who say its just societal pressure- for me my reaction is gut visceral attraction.. same here and i am twice your age plus10 yes, that 'type' of the fantasy... so again, many will disagree - this might be chemically induced.. it also turns people violent.. yes very familiar.. same here... but I am just not convinced there is something about my on the street attraction to women...
you can check my newest post from yesterday. i am finally accepting myself as gay. i am realising that when i look at women there is no lust there, women are just beautiful. also for the first time yesterday, i was starting to consciously notice guys. i disagree about your fetish point. by definition you literally can’t have a fetish for men. i think we have both been suffering with the same internalised homophobia, but i am gay and it sounds like you are too.
I'm with wanttoknow. Fetishes would generally not be about a given sex. And, btw, congrats on coming to acceptance for yourself. That's an awesome accomplishment in itself, and while it might feel some combination of sad/scary/upsetting in the interim, it puts you a lot farther down the path to self-acceptance. Also, to clarify some things that amiready said: -- I've never said that porn has no influence as a predictor of sexual orientation. The actual answer is a lot more nuanced; porn isn't a reliable indicator of sexual orientation because it is a powerful and distilled means of arousal. But the combination of interest in gay porn, lack of interest in straight porn, gay masturbation fantasies, attraction toward men, more attraction toward men when under the influence... you add all of those together and it's a pretty insurmountable argument that someone with all those factors doesn't have strong same-sex attraction and is thus likely gay or at the gay end of the spectrum. -- The nature of the way marijuana and other drugs of abuse work on the brain, they would not alter sexual attraction or orientation. They can cause mood changes (happiness, anger, etc) for several different reasons, not the least of which is their influence on neurotransmitters that control various emotions. But there's no mechanism of action that would alter sexual orientation. At best, it might lower inhibitions so that whatever the unconscious attractions are, they'd be more likely to come out.
hi chip, thanks for your help again! actually i don’t feel sad at all, i feel extremely happy. i fortunately don’t know any homophobic people so i know coming out will be fine, even though it is terrifying to do. i feel a lot less tense, like the cloud of impending doom that has been over my head since 15 is clearing, and i no longer feel inherently broken
Congratulations on accepingt yourself. I did too but continued to stare at women - i can't say i get sexually aroused but have an innate desire to touch them. A singular sex fantasy can be tied into a traumatic experience- rape - or molestation by an older adult.BSDM is a classic example. I find many types of real life women attractive - but the fantasy about men is one type of guy could the fantasy be blocking my real life sex pursuits - i dont' know - I am willing to accept I am gay but personally it's just not making sense for me. Congratulations. I felt this way when I first accept myself as gay but I didn't make progress after that and my on the street attraction remains, that's led to confusion. Honestly there are points where I just want to accept it but is less of internalized homophobia I think and more a feeling that all the pieces don't fit - anyway I didn't mean hijack your thread I just wanted to share that i have had similar thoughts and feelings and I am interested to see what others think. But its just not happening for me in real life- if i met a guy i liked and went on a date, like him and had sex well, ok I am gay : ) I guess I have trouble with an all in my head fantasy...
Me again.. your post really intrigued me and thought about it more.. ...wow I just thought about most of my sexual experiences with women - lack or ho hum interest in dating, in bed, literally bored YESSSSSSSSSSS! and think about it some more... the only part i enjoyed really was 'getting off' i mean it feels good to be inside a woman, but looking back I often closed my eyes and thought about a guy. do you have any more info about repression? or something reading you can recommend? something just occurred to me yes i look at beautiful women find them beautiful don't really get aroused.. i look at their faces, I don't look at their breasts or front but 100% i look for a girls ass in tights in yoga pants -but I don't get aroused...but when I come home and fantasize, its about seeing a guys ass that way, and better still naked, were with a woman it doesn't do anything for me... your post really stuck with me and that's the conclusion I am coming to.
I'll probably be crucified for advising this but after all you are 20 years old. Go to a gay bar, have a few drinks ( not a huge number) take some time to talk to someone who you find attractive and spend the night with them. I wish someone had given me this advice when I was 20 years old and maybe today I wouldn't be a closeted bisexual married man of 55 just starting to learn about this, not that it's all bad..
I would not recommend having a hookup at a bar as your first experience (unless that's something that really appeals to you.) The majority of people here on EC who have had a hookup simply to have a first experience have generally not felt good afterwards. I'd suggest that you take your time, find someone you connect with, and let it happen organically. You'll likely be a lot happier with that experience. I can't offhand think of a good reference specifically on repression. However, Joe Kort's book "Ten Smart Things Can Do To Find Real Love" (that exact title; there's another one with a similar title, but a completely different book) is excellent. It also has almost nothing to do with finding real love, but everything to do with understanding yourself and coming to terms. It's been a while since I've read it, but I believe he touches on the issue of repression and how it can take time for us to come to terms with being gay.
