Hey guys, I wanted to see if anyone is having/has had the same problem as me... I'm taking a very long time to accept myself and the fact that I'm gay, something that I thought I would have done by now. Despite what I keep telling myself, I am making some progress, albeit painfully slow. I have recently met a couple of people off ######, but only when I've been drinking and then my judgement obviously isn't ideal. So I want to try to stop doing this. I also would like to not just do hookups for a few reasons. I'm not sure if I would have the confidence to go and meet a guy when sober though. I also am nervous about meeting other gay guys, because I don't know how they would react to me still being pretty much in the closet, and also still being very ashamed about who I am. I'm very embarrassed about this, and just dont feel like trying to explain it to people who are fully out. Anyway, any thoughts, it would be great to hear them! Thanks
With me, I'm not sure how much it has to do with my sexuality, but I hate myself too much to do any of this stuff.For example, I can't stand the idea of anyone looking at me fully clothed (and arms fully covered) let alone undressed to any extent. So dating is very much still out of the question. And I don't think I would do it after drinking either, because when I'm like that around people I'm not more fun or relaxed or whatever, I'm just intolerably needy and stupid. Since realising, I've been nearly completely frozen on the spot.
Hi there! Even though it might not feel much, but the fact remains that you have made progress in accepting yourself. Posting on EC is part of that progress. The progress you have made thus far, counts. What could help in how you see yourself, and in addressing some of your fears is to remind yourself about your progress and hopefully it will help you to feel something positive and provide you with some confidence. Maybe it is a bit too early to meet another gay guy and build a relationship with them, but if you can, I would encourage you (and if you have not had the chance to do so yet) to build some friendships with others who are gay and out, or in their coming out process as this could also help you to build some confidence within yourself, and learn to like yourself. One thing to trying not to worry about is what others might think. There is no reason for you to feel embarrassed; everyone has their own experiences and hurdles to overcome. The other thing to start working on, is to learn to like, and eventually love yourself for who you are. You have no reason to be ashamed about who you are. How come you feel ashamed of who you are?
Hey guys, thanks so much for getting back to me. Melancholy, Yep, I completely understand. Body image and self-esteem about how I look, are making things really difficult. What I am trying to figure out now is, do I actually look as bad as I think I do. Or is it just me being horrible to myself. Its hard to tell the difference between thoughts that are true, and those that are not sometimes. Hi Mirko, Thanks for the encouragement I understand what you mean. Although, even if the dating thing is taking out of it, and its simply meeting other gay people, I still cant do it. I was just about to say "No gay guy wants to be friends with the gay guy who hates himself for being gay", but I feel I have written that on a post here before (I'm going to go back and check later). But anyway that's not the case anymore. I don't hate myself for being gay. BUT, I am still ashamed of it. And this is what makes it so difficult to talk to other gay guys. I'm embarrassed that I still fear people finding out. Telling people that makes things awkward and is difficult to do. Anyway sorry I'm sort of waffling on a bit. I know, and I really am trying to work on this for years, but I just never seem to achieve it. I'm just never good enough for myself, and I don't know if I ever will be. It's just the personality I have, and doesnt seem like something that could be changed. How come I feel ashamed? I dont know...Society told me I should be for being gay, and I bought into that. Now society says its ok, but I seem stuck in the old views. What else? I'm ashamed that I'm ashamed. I hate that I have a problem with it, but I do. I'm ashamed that I struggle with things and make up stupid reasons for not asking for help. I'm pretty much just ashamed about who I have become. But I'm working on that. God, this post took a bit of a turn! Sorry about that. Still pretty much looking for advice on how to meet guys and make friends with/without telling the person that you're still very much settled in the closet. Anyones thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all!
I suppose my answer has, of necessity, two parts. First: it's not abnormal to feel like this. Sure, there's a lot of popular media suggesting that after you come out to your first person, you're inducted into a fabulous wonderland of fun, parties, and potential boyfriends. Where everyone is just a friend you're yet to meet. But the truth of the matter is that your fellow gays are scary. If this wonderland exists, it's still a new place with people who live a life that is different from the one you currently lead. And you can't help but worry what they'll think of you. I'll even go further and make a confession. After ten years out of the closet, and being out to family, friends, colleagues, and my boyfriend's conservative Mormon family (yeah, long story), gay bars or gay clubs or even gay boardgame nights still scare the everloving shit out of me. For some reason, the resilience I have learned to feel against rejection from straight people is different from the fear I have of rejection by gay people. I suppose even the idea of rejection by gay people feels more "real". Like it's a deep and true assessment of who you really are. And I'm sure that you and I are not alone to feel this fear to a greater or lesser degree. I hope that at least makes you feel a bit less alone. But that takes me to my second point: in the end, those scary other gays are people too. They also have school or a job to worry about. They have to get food. They go see a movie. And after a busy day, they also put on their PJs and try to get a good night's sleep. They don't spend more than 10% of their time being "actively gay". And the rest of the time they live lives just the same as any of your current friends or family members. And at some point, they were exactly where you are now. Even if prefer not to bring it up to just any stranger swooping by. There might be some who pretend they were always out. There might be a few catty ones who prefer to "not waste their time on noobs". But in every group you'll meet, there'll be a few who remember what it was like to be new to all this, and how nice it was to have someone who understood and offered a helping hand. And who'll be happy to pay back by being the next generation of helping hands. How do you find those? I honestly think it's best to limit yourself to some specific goals and practice a specific story. If public situations are not your forte, it's best to do it as a bit of a sting operation. Go in, talk to just ONE person, go out. Invent an excuse if you must. You're new, you want to meet the group/the guy, and you want to do it now, but you have to fit it in before some other appointment. Just one drink, one hour, and some initial helloes, and you'll come back at a future date if you enjoy yourself. If things go wrong, then eh. You lost an hour. You are then free to never come back if you had a horrible time. I promise you they have better things to do with their time than obsess over it. And if they think you're an idiot, so what? You don't have to see them ever again. Also, your story is really not as negative as you feel it is. A story is all in the delivery anyway. One person's "stuck in the closet" is another's "first step on an exciting journey!". Above all, don't sit there with an aura of "I'm a failure, please don't hit me!". Instead, frame it as "Coming out is a lot of work, and it was more daunting than I thought, but this is another step on my way out of the closet!". People aren't meeting you to get access to all of your gay friends. They're meeting you for you! If there is any lesson I learned, it's this. When you talk about yourself, don't talk about the things you don't like. Or the things you haven't done. Or the things you're not comfortable with. Instead, practice on rephrasing them as things yo DID do. Things you WANT to do. Things you're willing to give a try. And you'll find people who want to be a part of that story. But above all, don't feel like some sort of failure. I stand by the above advice. But I have my fair share of failures. One of them was so bad I didn't talk to any gay guys for over three years! But when I got back into the outside world, I found out that my failure was ephemeral at best. And that when I tried again, success was eventually right around the corner.
Hi there, I think it would be worthwhile for you to try figuring out how to overcome the shame that you are experiencing. Wanting to meet others, is a great starting point, because it is a vulnerable act; you are putting yourself out there, and there are no guarantees that it will work out the way you have planned it. But of course, those are the moments you want; and it is also the moments that will allow you to start working on overcoming your fears and shame. At the end of the day, it means showing up say for example to a LGBTQ support group meeting, or at a gay youth social group, or attending a local event that would allow you to meet others, where you can be yourself not needing to worry about whether or not you are out, and how others will see it. And maybe to start meeting others, a safe space could be a good ground for being introduced to others who might struggle with the same fears.Perhaps this is something to explore if you haven't had the chance yet. Alternatively, you could also try meetup.com and see if there is a group in your area that would be of interest. If you prefer to talk one-on-one with someone, you could try messaging someone (say a group organiser) and see if they'd be willing to meet with you one-on-one to start things, before you go into a larger group setting. In doing this, you don't need to talk about your out status. In working on overcoming the shame you are experiencing, try to work on the things that you can be proud of, where you can tap yourself on the shoulder and say 'I did it.' In overcoming fears, and shame, failure is going to be a part of it, but it matters what you do with it - as Filip indicated. Are you going back into the arena as it were, and giving it your best again? And this is what counts - nothing else. If you have not had a chance to look into some of the work by Brene Brown on shame and vulnerability, I would encourage you to have a look at it and perhaps try to think about some of the most applicable points relevant to your situation. I have linked a couple of videos below: As you know, everything is connected. Adding to it, we are also our own enemies because we are self-critical, and we question everything we want to do, would like to do, or have planned to do - in particular when we are in the closet, when we are trying to let go of fears. Starting a sentence with 'I am not good enough' can lead to questioning things even more and with that, you potentially also feed the self-critic. As hard as it is, try not to hammer away on being ashamed, or worrying about what others might think. What others might think, or how they are going to view you, is something you cannot control, but what you can control is how you go into it. As Filip said, meeting new people, and making friends with other persons who identify as being gay is not easy. I can certainly attest to that. It means having to put ourselves out there. But of course it also means not focusing so much on 'being gay' as Filip mentioned as well. At the end of the day, and while your sexual orientation is a part of you, it doesn't define you as much as it might feel. If you think about yourself, what are some the things that would help to describe you? What are some of the things that you truly enjoy doing? What are you good and great at? When you meet someone new, the chances are the person across from you, is going to be as nervous as you. Chances are, the person across from you is going to have the line "please don't let him ask me how out I am, because that would be an awkward question to answer," circling in their mind when you say 'hi'. Thinking about this, I don't think you need to worry about needing to say anything about being in the closet. Make it easy for them and make it easy on yourself by talking about the things that make you, you. The things you enjoy, the things you want to do. In starting to build friendships with others who identify as gay, and depending on the circumstances on how the friendships came about or how we met, I didn't needed to come out or be upfront about how out I am or whether or not I am in the closet to start things off. Was I worried it might come up at a moment, I didn't expect it? Yes, I was. But at the end of the day, it hardly, if ever came up. I developed some good friendships while being in the closet and taking my cues from them on how to come out and build the confidence I needed to start opening the closet door and leave it open, helped along the way. Admittedly, it wasn't easy to begin with, but the more I sought out the connections and listening to them in public places, like coffee shops, the easier it became to open up; the easier it became to have a conversation in the middle of a coffee shop full with customers, talking about how to get out of the closet and listening to the person sitting across from me on all the things they have done to be out. The conversation didn't start with being gay or being in or out of the closet, but with something totally unrelated. In looking at how to frame your experiences thus far, and perhaps also in starting to overcome the feelings or thoughts of 'not being good enough', and as Filip mentioned, is to frame things in a positive light - the new exciting steps you could take, or adventures you could be on which could be anything.
Hey guys, Thanks so much for the great replies. I'm going to try and take it on board as much as I can and see where it takes me. I think I just need to bite the bullet and try it! Filip, Yep, I completely agree. Being rejected by straight people is difficult, but I am terrified I'm not going to fit in with gay people either. Just like growing up and having to hide things, I never knew what the right things to say when other kids asked me questions. I needed to answer like a straight person would. But honesty, this never went away, the anxiety I get when gay people ask what type of guys are you into, or even just general things. It's like I'm still trying to decide what the correct answer should be. Which is stupid, I know. I think it just comes back to what you said about rejection from other gay people being terrifying. I like what you said about seeing other guys in a different way. I suppose its hard to remember that many have gone through this even if they don't seem it. Thank you for all the advice. And thank you for this last section. Sometimes we feel like we're all alone, and we're the only ones that seem to fail and mess things up. But I suppose I hide my failures from others, so they must do too. It's nice to not feel so alone out there. Mirko, Yep overcoming the shame is an ongoing battle. Usually seems like a losing one, but sometimes I make a little gain, so I suppose I should just keep holding on to that. I havent been great with vulnerability this far in life, it usually takes alcohol to push me into things, but again, its a work in progress! Thanks for the advice and videos. I have come across them before, but its been a while. So maybe it would be a good idea to watch them again. I really like this. It's something I do all the time. I've been asked before, if I would talk to anyone the way I talk to myself in my head. And the answer is absolutely not. It's disgusting. I can reduce myself to nothing in minutes, with the thoughts I have. Sometimes I am better and I try the whole positive self talk. But it's hard to get in the habit. I just seem to keep slipping back into the old ways. You both touched on this. Similar to what I mentioned in last paragraph. I realise this at times, and feel good but about the prospect of what could happen. But often, I seem to forget, and only see the bad things. I find it hard to see that positivity. But I will try to remember it more and practice it more. Thank you all again
You have gotten som fantastic advice. I duble down on how amazing brene brown's work has been on my own life. She does a fantastic job and getting to the root of the problem Listen, we all hated ourselves at some point. Some people for less than others, but the gran majority of us fucking hated being queer. It sucks, its an extra obstacle, its a fight that we wish we didn't have. But here is the thing. That struggle that you are so ashamed for right now? That is what ties a lot of us together. We are fucking warriors and survivors. When I see another openly gay person in the world I instantly love them. I love them because they are living in a world that tried to kill them, yet here they are. When I meet someone in the closet and struggling with the shame of being gay, I also instantly love them. I love them and admire them for trying to fight the bullshit that we have been fed since we were young. I don't think "wow, I can't believe its taking them THIS long...how weak!" Hell no. I think "Wow, I remember when I used to hate myself that much. I wonder how I can be of help. I hope they can get to a place of self acceptance at some point". We know how hard it is and we are here for each other. Think about this website. People are paying for this forum and people are volunteering countless hours of their time because we understand how hard it is. All of us also exist outside of this forum too. So go find people like us in person. There are waaaay more than you think. For example, If you have a gay friend ask you that then say you have no idea. Say "Still trying to navigate this whole thing. How did you guys figure out your type of guy?". Not knowing is part of the journey and it gets easier when you let other people in. Like everyone else above, I would also invite you to change the way you are telling your story. Right now you are saying "Look at this poor bastard. So sad that its taking him so long to accept this gay thing that sooo many people have already accepted. Can you believe its taking him so long? Wow" When you tell it that way its no wonder you are sad. Here is my take on your story from a total stranger: You are a guy who despite all the bullshit messages in your childhood, you found a way to start learning about yourself. You have the will of a survivor and you are trying different ways on accomplishing your goal. Instead of just giving up, you are here on a forum asking for help and fighting another day for the happiness that you know you deserve. You aren't settling for being ashamed even if its a struggle. You are pushing yourself and doing the best you can with the tools that you have. You are fucking amazing. I hope you know that even if its just online, we love you. Other gay people already know some of your darkest worries and we are still here loving you because we have been there. It feels a bit far away because its online, but we are all "real gay people" outside of this forum Keep on going man. You got this
<3 Hi Smurf, Thank you for that! You've given me some great advice a few times over the last year plus or so, and this really helps again. I know its normal to struggle. Everyone struggles. But its nice to be reminded that I'm not alone. I hope I can go out and meet people like you guys! Makes sense! Maybe I'll try and force myself to be a bit more positive. Maybe eventually it'll catch on. Thank you so much for the amazing encouragement and kind words. Thank you everyone! You all will never know how much it means to me
