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Bohemian Rhapsody

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by L8bloomer, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. L8bloomer

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    Ok, so kind of a different post, but I know we’ve talked a little about LGBTQ friendly shows and movies before. I watched Bohemian Rhapsosy tonight and can I just say that I was crying about Freddie Mercury’s struggle with his sexuality? I felt like the movie accurately portrayed the struggle we so often feel. He clearly loved his wife so very deeply, despite his sexuality. I was getting emotional thinking of the love I have for my husband, and the hope I have that we could still be best friends if we broke up. I got the sense that he (Freddie) really hoped he could make it work with his wife, and not only because of his being in some denial of his true identity. Anyway, just some musings...
     
  2. Meander

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    I'm going to say this right now: I'm not sure you're going to get much support on this one. Because regarding Freddie's sexuality, there's a few things about Bohemian Rhapsody which are contentious. For starters, the actual Freddie Mercury was bisexual, whereas in this movie, when he tells Mary Austin "I think I might be bisexual," she goes "Freddie, you're gay," effectively erasing Freddie's bisexuality by claiming there's no such thing as bisexuality--just gay and straight. As someone who is bisexual, to treat an actual bisexual icon like that is honestly shameful. And some who have picked apart the film will tell you that that's only the tip of the iceberg.

    Fun Fact: Rami Malek is an alumni of my university's theatre department. So a lot of locals in that area are really rooting for him to win the Best Actor Oscar. And if he wins, it'll be deserved.
     
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  3. L8bloomer

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    Wow, I did not know any of that. I do agree it bothered me when he told her he was bi and she said he was gay... though I sensed a love between them that was deep but not necessarily sexual... idk, maybe just the way it was played out in the movie. I just related to the feeling of being conflicted in general.
     
  4. Lexa

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    That's actually not how I interpreted it. For me they broke up because he was not sure of his sexual orientation yet and that he needed to explore that. He was very probably bisexual though. He had more than one affair with a woman. It's also what Adam Lambert (I think a reliable source!) seems to think. I think the movie wanted to leave it out in the open, what his sexual orientation was, because he in his life did that too.
     
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  5. Meander

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    You would be right to say that there was a love between Freddie and Mary. In fact, there's plenty to suggest that they did remain close (quoted from Wikipedia and sources of it): "They remained close friends through the years, with Mercury often referring to her as his only true friend. In a 1985 interview, Mercury said of Austin, "All my lovers asked me why they couldn't replace Mary [Austin], but it's simply impossible. The only friend I've got is Mary, and I don't want anybody else. To me, she was my common-law wife. To me, it was a marriage. We believe in each other, that's enough for me."...Mercury was also the godfather of Austin's oldest son, Richard....In his will, Mercury left his London home to Austin, rather than Hutton, saying to her, "You would have been my wife, and it would have been yours anyway.""

    Honestly, that's probably what the real-life Freddie Mercury went along with.

    And that's not even getting into the fact that Bryan Singer (the film's director, also of X-Men, X-Men 2, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Superman Returns, The Usual Suspects, and others) has recently had accounts of raping young boys from incidents stretching back to 1993. Admittedly, that makes Freddie (in the film) first interacting with his future boyfriend via a drunken grope pretty uncomfortable. Not helping matters is that whenever Singer was asked about the allegations, he basically called them "a homophobic smear campaign" against Bohemian Rhapsody. Which should piss off anyone in the LGBT community.

    So yeah, Bohemian Rhapsody isn't exactly a squeaky-clean film.
     
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  6. OnTheHighway

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    I also got very emotional watching the movie. I listened to queen as a teenager at a time when I was deeply confused about whom I was. Back then I put him more in the gay category; and even today reflecting on my early perceptions it seems to me he was in a constant state of bargaining with himself. Only he truly knew where he lies on the spectrum.

    His death when I was younger had a profound effect on me. When he died, I was exposed to a lot of negative sentiment about his death: messaging that reinforced all the other heteronormative and homophobic messaging I was already exposed to.

    However, as I now look back on the journey I have been embracing, I am proud of what I have accomplished having been able to resolve my own questions, bargaining and sexual identity.

    The songs he wrote in the remaining years of his life immediately prior to his death were powerful self reflections of his own desire to come to terms with whom he was. I listen to them today with warmth, appreciation and positive sentiment.

    He is a true legend.
     
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  7. L8bloomer

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    @Meander I must say that I have been thinking more about all this... I agree there is a good chance that Freddie Mercury was bi and not gay. What’s interesting but also sad is the fact that we don’t know, and it’s possible he didn’t know either. I’ve read up on this topic a bit more, and it seems that the speculation about his sexuality is really all over the place. There are people who want to claim Mercury as a gay icon, saying he was a bit confused and was still with women based on societal norms. Then again maybe he was just a queer guy exploring all sides of himself. In the movie, there is a definitely a bi-erasure happening, and perhaps that’s reflective of what happened to him in life. And, for me at least, I think it also reflects the struggle many of us feel... am I bi or gay? How gay am I? Does it even matter?

    In any case, I appreciate your responses and the fact that I learned even more about Mercury. He was a pretty amazing guy!
     
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  8. FindingLouie

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    I wept during that movie too. It was truly moving to me for a few reasons. I grew up during that time period and that music is important to me. His journey is similar to mine. His family...who took so long to truly accept him. My artist ex husband is also gay. And I was Mary. Albeit a gay Mary. And I believe in their love. And I do think their friendship endured. But it isn’t the kind of love that would be satisfying for romantic love and connection. It has little to do with sex. Anyone can have sex with anyone. That does not mean you are acting in accordance with your soulful desires, true identity, or anything authentically inside of you. There’s all kinds of sex and reasons people engage in it. But THAT kind of sex, the sex that makes your soul sing with true connection and knowledge of self, is powerful.

    @Meander I have heard that opinion regarding Mary saying he was gay takes away from the identity of his bisexuality. I don’t agree that that was the point of that. That was her processing their relationship and her experience. It doesn’t matter ultimately what his “label” is. He gets to identiy that for himself anyway. No one else. And he’s gone now and that went with him. He was our queer brother in the big scheme of the community. That’s all that matters. The point of the movie for me was his journey in self-acceptance and self-love of that queerness in him. A journey we all have to take. Which is why it resonates so powerfully.
     
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  9. justaguyinsf

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    Why is it "sad" that we don't know the precise answer as to what label should be affixed to Freddie Mercury's sexualty? I really don't get it, and I think the obsession over labels is simplistic and ultimately fails to grasp that human desire many times transcends categories.
     
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  10. L8bloomer

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    I didn’t mean to offend... what I meant more is the aspect of why we need labels anyway, as I said later in my post - “does it even matter?” I don’t know the label to my own sexuality, let alone someone else’s. But I guess that sort of makes me sad in a way, as that relates to my own personal guilt about leaving my husband if I’m not “totally” gay. I get what it is to be bi and feel marginalized and forced into a category, as I’ve always identified that way. But now that I’m somewhere between bi and lesbian - while still married to a man - it’s a bit harder to sort it all out. Our own experiences always influence how we interpret art like books and movies... I acknowledge that I’m seeing this in a certain way due to where I am in my journey. But I’ve appreciated the different viewpoints and how they’ve made me think, and I’m sure if I re-watch this a few years from now, I’ll come away with a different perspective.
     
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  11. Nickw

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    I agree with @justaguyinsf. I think there is a tendency to really want to define sexuality. To put it into a box or to somehow understand sexuality by assigning a behavior to a label. "I'm bisexual so I must need to feel this".

    Mercury was an incredibly gifted and intelligent man. I have to give him the credit that maybe the film didn't. He may have completely understood himself and his sexuality. We just don't know that. We can only assign our own experiences to him to try and understand.

    I've, recently, learned how deeply and differently I can feel for men and for women. How I can be a lover of both and how intense those feelings can be and how wonderful.

    I have "Don't stop me now" go through my head constantly as I ski or ride my bike. But, lately, it has become a bit of a mantra for me as I learn how I can engage all sorts of feelings I was unaware of. "I'm having such a good time". Freddie might well have taken this to a level that I can not hope (or should I try) to understand.

    At the end of the day, Mercury's music will live on regardless.
     
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  12. Nickw

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    Hey. I just love that you brought up this subject BTW. Anytime we can use an example like this to try and figure out ourselves is great and another gift that Mercury may have provided us.
     
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  13. justaguyinsf

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    No offense taken! I guess you just "triggered" me! :dizzy_face: And what you say about your own experience makes sense in terms of identifying with Freddie's apparent struggles. In any event, I think most people are in a grey zone when it comes to sexuality. But it's much easier to think in either/or terms so most people just fall into that approach without any critical thinking on their own part. I think sexuality is one of the less interesting aspects of a person ... Freddie's outrageous talent supersedes his sexuality any day! I even find his devotion to his wife to be quite honorable ... regardless of his sexuality.
     
    #13 justaguyinsf, Feb 23, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
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  14. FindingLouie

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    Labels are important for the marginalized because then they can unite and support each other. And March when necessary. Political purposes. It helps to keep things simple and explainable. It helps build community in order to hold each other up and that’s been a lifesaver for me. I’m thankful for labels.

    That simplistic thinking isn’t really helpful in the personal, internal realm of things though because life and situations and sexuality isn’t black and white. There’s not right or wrong in the traditional sense. Nothing is quite as simple on the inside of a person. And also the heteronormative, homophobic, mysogynist, xenophobic, Judeo/Christian, patriarchal society that many of us grew up in doesn’t allow the answers to come from within. Especially for women. We aren’t taught that we can trust ourselves and our feelings and that we know what the best answers are for us. There is always some authority outside of us that knows more. We are taught that anyway. Our lives were meant to be in service of others so we have always bowed and sold our authenticity out from under our own skin. At first in this process I let guilt and fear rule me. All my life actually. Then I realized if I didn’t honor who I really was from the inside out, no one else would and I wasn’t honoring anyone else’s truths either.

    But I’m grateful for those who came before us and let the world,and they themselves, put that simple label on them. Where would we be without Ellen after all?
     
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  15. justaguyinsf

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    I agree that using labels is a shrewd political tactic to, as you say, keep things simple and explainable. The problem is that the labels, such as "gay," do not correspond to real human beings, which are complicated and don't neatly fit into categories. Another problem is that the labels come to stand for much more than sexual attraction, but also encompass political views, moral values, etc. This drives many who are strongly attracted to their own gender to reject the label "gay" and stay in the closet, which then engenders resentment in those who are "out and proud." It's a big problem and I'm not sure how it can be fixed at this point.
     
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  16. L8bloomer

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    So, I think that as humans we have a tendency to want to put people and things into categories. There is apparently some ancient survival stuff tied in with that. But I agree that many people look at the label as so much more than who you love... and I admit it’s probably one of the things that’s kept me from moving forward in my path (there are several factors too, such as family, finances, job stuff). And the truth is there’s more than one way to be gay, right? I don’t need to cut my hair and drive a Subaru, lol. Why does this stuff bother me? At 44, I care much less than I ever did what people think, but it’s still there...
     
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  17. Nickw

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    I can't imagine there is anything "gayer" than how I spent this evening with my friend and there was not a single piece of glitter to be found anywhere.

    I've been thinking a lot about what I have with this guy and some of what makes it easy for me is that we're just two, regular, guys. What we have reminds me that my sexuality is defined by how I feel about this man and not anything else. I am just ME sharing intimacy with another human.
     
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  18. Rupert30

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    Am I the only one who thought that movie sucked?
     
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  19. OnTheHighway

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    What about it did you not like?
     
  20. FindingLouie

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    I think gay corresponds just fine to my human being. And I'm a real human being. I'm very proud to be gay. But I get that you are saying it's way more complex than that and I also believe that. I certainly do not fit the bulldyke stereotypes of a lesbian. And I'm certainly not a "high femme" lesbian in anyway, on the inside for sure. But I am a lesbian. Just the way I am. And I don't need anyone's approval to know that. That's the gift of coming out. There's a quiet power of self acceptance after the burning flames of disapproval from the family and community of origin and the loss that surrounds that. My experience in the gay community is that they just want people to get real, with themselves and others. Within the community, labels aren't taken all the seriously and often cross-over each other. The enlightened people embrace all queerness.

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the resentment. I have felt no resentment from the gay community that it took me until I was 43 years old to come out. The wise humans understand that a person has to be all the way ready to come out and take the loss and heat that comes with doing that. However, I do understand why the "out and proud" want everyone to come out. And that is because the more we are able to debunk the myths of gayness and become transparent in the world at large the more we will be able to live freely everywhere with all the rights others have. And then live healthy lives that are subversive and in the closet. That the fear of those who grew up with all of those homophobic myths of gays being perverts, and predators and that there is some kind of "gay lifestyle" can be dispelled . Including to ourselves. And the only way to do that is to show up as "gay" at church and school and the grocery store and concerts and art shows. Like the famous Harvey Milk says, "gay brothers and sisters,...You must come out. Come out...to your parents...I know that it is hard and will hurt them but think about how they will hurt you in the voting booth! Come out to your relatives...come out to your friends...if indeed they are your friends. Come out to your neighbors...to your fellow workers...to the people who work where you eat and shop...come out only to the people you know, and who know you. Not to anyone else. But once and for all, break down the myths, destroy the lies and distortions. For your sake. For their sake. For the sake of youngsters who are becoming scared by the votes from Dade to Eugene."
     
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