1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

What are your thoughts on people who have explosive reactions to misgendering?

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Destin, Dec 28, 2018.

  1. Destin

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    2,055
    Likes Received:
    715
    Location:
    The United States
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I saw a video of a clearly mtf transgender person freaking the heck out at a cashier because the guy called her sir instead of ma'am. I know the whole misgendering thing is annoying for trans people, but I was wondering what's considered the correct way to handle those situations after watching the video. How far should a person go to correct misgendering and at what point does it become inappropriate?

    Here's the video: https://streamable.com/p4xjo
     
  2. Mihael

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    3,049
    Likes Received:
    704
    Location:
    Europe
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I wouldn't freak out at someone who had no chance of knowing how I want to be addressed - like a cashier. But if it was a collegue who knew and I told them multiple times and who didn't even look like trying to be helpful, even if awkward about it or unable to modify their language habits, then I would get angry.
     
  3. Kodo

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2015
    Messages:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    849
    Location:
    California
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I don't think that it helps to have an explosive reaction to being misgendered, especially if it was a stranger who made a mistake. The cashier seemed to be apologetic and afterward addressed the woman as "ma'am." I do sympathize with the woman though, anger like that is often the result of dealing with shit for a long time and it gets pent up. She has probably dealt with being misgendered all the time and finally reached a tipping point. It doesn't make lashing out okay, but there is usually a reason for why people get angry like that.

    Personally, I have tried to just calmly correct someone or privately let them know what my pronouns were if there was an issue. I might would get angry if it was someone who knew I was trans and yet still decided to call me by female pronouns.
     
  4. Lin1

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,336
    Likes Received:
    531
    Location:
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    In her defence it does seem like she was repeatedly called sir after repeatedly saying she didn't want to be addressed as such which is highly unprofessional.

    I think cashiers and other staff members should stop assuming genders altogether and stop using "mam" or "sir".

    That being said, her reaction probably made her look unreasonable and less likely to receive the respect she was wanting.
     
    DreamerAsh and Destin like this.
  5. Mihael

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    3,049
    Likes Received:
    704
    Location:
    Europe
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    In my surroundings, nobody has a clue they should use different pronouns if someone comes out as trans. It's quite paradoxical. And this is why I don't understand the outrage about pronouns. I see that many people see that there is something going on and what it is when I got a short haircut and started to wear men's tshirts and button ups, I came out to some too, and they really try to be helpful and friendly about it, but they still go with the she pronouns. I never asked otherwise and they never asked me either, and probably have no clue about it. It's a different question if this is how it should be, but I would blame rather the culture than lack of good will in many cases. I see it a lot that even a stranger or nearly a stranger treats me like they would treat a guy, goes on with "bro talk", talks about his girlfriend and assumes I know a lot about cars if this is a man, asks me to carry things if it's a girl, and still calls me a madam or a she. That's where my scepticism stems from.
     
    Destin likes this.
  6. YuriBunny

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    I'm an introvert; I live in my head.
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    If it's just a cashier, you probably don't have to deal with that person frequently in your everyday life, so I think it shouldn't matter what they call you. And getting angry enforces negative stereotypes about transgender people. That said, it would be smart for cashiers to avoid using "sir" and "ma'am". Those aren't necessary words at all.

    Even if it's a person close to you or someone with whom you interact on a regular basis, I think you should try to avoid seeming angry if you can, and try to talk calmly about how much it bothers you. That's my impression, but I'm not transgender, and I won't claim to understand what it's like!
     
    Destin likes this.
  7. Totesgaybrah

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Messages:
    992
    Likes Received:
    151
    Location:
    CA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    She’s probably not at all like that on a daily basis. She was probably having a bad day and that cashier misgendering her was the tipping point.

    Then the cashier said sir like two more times. I don’t think it was on purpose, maybe he’s been living under a rock for the last 5 years or just isn’t too bright.

    I compare this to how I would react to being called gay in a derogatory manner.

    If I was having a good day I’d either try to educate or laugh it off with a nasty joke.
    If I’m having a bad day I might say something like she said in the video.

    Let’s go outside and I’ll show you how gay I am.

    She definitely could have handled the situation better but I’m happy she stood up for herself instead of letting it slide.
    You have to stand up for yourself in this world because you can bet your ass nobody else is gonna stand up for you.
     
    Destin likes this.
  8. eismeister

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2018
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    Republic of Ireland
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    All but family
    Random people I don’t understand being upset with. I’m a gay woman, and identify as a woman, but dress pretty typically masculine and have an undercut. Get called sir all the time. Doesn’t bother me. Don’t bother to correct them. Sometimes fun when they finally see my chest lol. But, I can understand getting upset with someone who does actually know your preferred gender pronouns. That would make anyone upset since it’s painful. Sometimes I wish straight people would think how it would feel to be called something they aren’t.
     
    Destin likes this.
  9. BothWaysSecret

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,916
    Likes Received:
    136
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    A few people
    I can understand any transperson's frustrastion with being misgendered. That said, there is a way to handle it and that was not it.

    She did not need to go apeshit crazy on the guy and destroy the store. I get that the guy kept calling her "sir" and that was not right, and she has every right to be mad at him for that. But making a scene was uncalled for.
     
    ladykiki and Destin like this.
  10. Pret Allez

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    6,785
    Likes Received:
    67
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    First, people in customer-facing positions need categorically to stop using gendered language. "Sir" and "ma'am" need to stop. It can only go badly if the customer is trans and the employee doesn't realize it.

    Second, if you're going to repeatedly misgender the customer after she corrects you, then you're an asshole and deserve whatever invective you get hurled your way.

    Third, most people in this thread are cis and don't really get how painful this is.
     
    Destin and ThatBorussenGuy like this.
  11. ThatBorussenGuy

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    2,054
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Between the posts
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    A few people
    If it's an accident, it hurts but I'm not going to make someone feel bad over it. If you do it on purpose, you're a dick and I will absolutely call you out over it. Her reaction was extreme, but I know what it's like to be misgendered over and over again, and after a while I'd get pretty pissed off, too.
     
    #11 ThatBorussenGuy, Jan 2, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
    Destin likes this.
  12. Harjus

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2014
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    61
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Things that are understandable are not always acceptable.

    I understand her reaction very well but that doesn't make it right. I feel sorry for her because now it's all on the internet too.

    We should try to behave really well since we are a small minority and people could judge us all based on one encounter. I try to remember that. I don't usually bother correcting people if it happens (not that often anymore) but it does feel bad.

    I am not completely innocent myself. I get this weird cold anger. I never yell or show much emotion when I get angry for real but I will make sure I am understood. It sometimes scares people. Few times I have gotten really mad because of misgendering although there were other insults or inappropriate touching involved too. I am not proud of how I dealt with that. I have also had to walk away from situations because I felt like I was going to snap.

    This anger comes from years and years of dysphoria, being treated badly, not respected at all, made fun of, not being seen etc. It's bitterness about "lost years". It's deep hopelessness. People react differently. Some abuse alcohol or other substances, some have anger issues and people get mental health issues.

    I don't know this woman though. I don't know what kind of person she is. She might just be a complete berserker close to 100% of the time or maybe she just faced a great personal tragedy. You never know. Maybe she went back to apologize and pay for the damage she maybe caused in the store but we wouldn't know that. She is a human being that really exists. She could even be reading this thread.
     
    #12 Harjus, Jan 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  13. smurf

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1,645
    Likes Received:
    638
    Location:
    Florida
    I would invite you to misgender a straight guy over and over again. While its not the same scenario, I can guarantee you that the guy will freak out on you if you don't stop. And that is not keeping count how many times this woman was able to let it go beforehand.

    To me, its incredibly violent to expect people to remain calm all the fucking time when they are living in a country that is out to get them. Is her outburst correct? No, but I also don't think vilifying her makes anything better.

    Obviously most trans people are able to either ignore when they are misgendered. Its hurts, but most people deal with it. The fragility of cis people to not be able to handle one bad outburst is insane to me. I much rather her have this outburt than internalize the pain and do something drastic later on. I value her life and her emotional well-being more than anything she might destroy.

    If you are cis and you see someone being misgendered in front of you then step the fuck up and help.
     
    #13 smurf, Jan 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
    Jinkies, Mihael, Flynn S and 2 others like this.
  14. Lone Wolfe

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2018
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    Washington
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    There is more strength in keeping your cool, and patiently teaching the ignorant ones around you the correct terms. Patience and persistence prevail over temper.
     
    Destin and BothWaysSecret like this.
  15. I'mStillStanding

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    382
    Location:
    East Coast
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I agree blowing up isn’t the best choice. You often lose your message, and you want to try and educate others. That said this video was heart breaking! You could tell how hurt she was and how humiliated she felt by his actions (intentional or not). I know they say we are suppose to “lean in” to these areas and lead by example. Teach and educate to overcome prejudices... but I mean even Michelle Obama said (and I quote), “And it’s not always enough to lean in because that shit doesn’t work all the time!” So, while kicking the boxes wasn’t the best, I’m not gonna say what she did was wrong. Those who were there won’t forget the energy that was felt in that room. They will be more aware of themselves in the future should they encounter a similar situation. I just hope the lady in the video, who by the way was clearly ma’am I’m not sure how that could be a slip in a face to face conversation (I say that because I’m always called ma’am at the drive through then I pull around and they see the 6’2 guy with beard and a voice like the cast of designing women and they are in shock) was able to get corporate and get some resolution.
     
    Mihael and Destin like this.
  16. Harjus

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2014
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    61
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    A few people
    I agree. It was heart breaking to see.

    She does have boobs and has made an effort to look feminine. Not a "sir" definitely. Looks like a woman to me, not a crossdressing cisman. We don't know how long she has been trying to pass. Could be years of efford that nobody sees. She has lived a propably really tough life in the body she has. Maybe she has had to be tough to survive. I have seen people commenting how she acted so masculine she cannot be a woman but you should see my cisgender sister when she gets mad. Is she a man now too? She has propably learned to survive that way.

    This woman could be veteran. We don't know. I can see the anger and the instinct kicking in. I could see the frustration. She didn't actually attack anyone physically though. She challenged the cashier but she didn't attack him physically.

    Yeah, still doesn't make ot right but I won't judge her or anyone else in that situation.

    And still, we don't know if she went back to apologize or not. I know people sometimes do that.Maybe she did.
     
    Destin and smurf like this.
  17. RainbowGreen

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    Québec
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    It is certainly not ''right'' per say to lash out when getting misgendered, but it can be really, really frustrating.

    I have never destroyed anything or physically hurt someone after being misgendered, but I lashed out. I was pissed. When you get misgendered every day, it piles up, and then you burst. I said some hurtful things and was generally really cold with the people who misgendered me, but at that moment, I felt it was the only way they would understand how much it meant to me.

    I don't excuse her behavior, but I understand it full well. No, you technically shouldn't be this upset at a cashier considering that they don't know you, but even I get pissed at them when they misgender me now (which is thankfully rare after years of T). I just don't confront them. I go home pissed without telling them a thing, and it does kinda ruin my morning when that happens.