Nobody turned on her, I asked "why" because I find the concept of wanting to be seen and accepted as a woman while refusing to see and acknowledge the struggles of women around the globe and help fight for women's rights worldwide all the while wanting us to fight for hers an interesting one. I don't understand it and I definetely don't support it but I respect that it's her opinion and her feelings and that's okay.
I'm not trying to make this another of our arguments, but when people use the quoted part as an excuse for their cause it sounds ridiculous. The idea that a group can somehow not claim responsibility for its members actions and suddenly call them not a real member just because the member does something bad isn't reality. Muslim terrorists are still Muslims. KKK members are still Christians. TERF's are still feminists. You can't just say 'oh well they weren't reeeeally ____ because they did _____' they were still a member and still did it, otherwise every group would be perfect because anyone who isn't perfect wouldn't actually be considered part of the group. With that logic there would be no such thing as religious followers because nobody from any religion follows 100% of their religion's rules, it's not possible, there are too many to follow like not eating a certain meat on a certain day or whatever. As for the straying away from what they represent thing...not really. Christianity/Islam says the Christian/Islamic god is the only true god. A normal person hears it and thinks 'oh I should go convert everyone else and then the issues will be solved'. A radical hears it and thinks 'oh I should go kill everyone else and then the issue will be solved'. They're both members of the same group solving the same problem and reaching the same result, the only difference is the method they used.
Hi girls Sorry for my late reply to these comments, I did not realise they were here. First of all i am amazed how my simple comment of not regarding myself as a full on feminist can be meet with such comments that people like me are letting woman "real woman down", with the fight for equality etc. Being a trans woman (therefore not a "real woman" in some eyes as pointed out), it seems even now I still need to act, be a certain way, in order to fit into woman hood. It seems I just cannot just be me, as i live the life as the woman i so longed to be. I suffered with this before I transitioned, at school I was teased endlessly as I had feminine mannerisms, as well as interests, hobbies. i had to suppress these mannerisms , as best I could, failing badly often. Teacher would yell at me in class to stop acting like a girl, I was told to stop hanging out with girls, as teachers would say I was being creepy, weard, even though I was not attacked to them, I just related to them, enjoyed doing girl stuff. I had to instead be this be that do that instead. I had to pretend to be "a man" so act strong, dominant etc etc, even though I had a quite and submissive nature. So when I started living full time as a woman, 9 years ago, I am now 41, instead of part time, the feeling of, omg at last I can just be me was so huge i cant explain! Though I was not much, or good at being a boy (still hate using that word) I can promise you being a boy, man, comes with its own issues straggles I can promise you, its not all roses being a guy as well, trust me. Its not just only woman who struggle. Trust me girls, there are advantages being a woman too, even i, as a trans woman, have noticed you get away with things that no way you would get away with as a guy, and you are treated better by public in many cases and there is more of a sisterhood, were as as a guy you are often on your own, more dog eat dog. I have recently been told by good meaning feminists, the following. I needed to go camping at a LBQT festival, I asked a male friend before I left to show me how to put a tent up that he lent me, when I told some lesbian woman at festival this they jumped down me and said "you dont need a man to show you how to do that". I was not game to tell them that I still had issues at the camp site and a couple guys offered to helped me, and i gratefully said yes please. I often ask a stranger guy for help if I am lost, need help etc etc, much to a GFs dismay hehehehe. I have had similar issues faced by "real woman" as well, Im happy to line up to use the toilet LOL. I have been spoken over so often by guys at work I have lost count, I have been followed by a guys, had unwonted attention in pubs, bars, the street. I have even had a guy rape me in a park, and the extra fear that he may kill me when he discovers Im trans if he did not already know. Endless sexist comments. But when i transitioned I promised myself that i would not jump up and down when meet with sexism, i mean i dislike it yes, but I figured i had to accept being a woman has its draw backs as well, and take the good with the bad. I dont wont people telling me I should act this way or do this or that, Iv had my whole life that way, not now, no more, I wont to be me. I do my best for feminism were I feel fit to do so, in my own little way. OMG even in the bedroom I am told, that i should not do such n such with even a BF as its demeaning to woman, even though I may in fact like it. So I will get a BFs dinner, breakfast, not because I enjoy letting feminism down, but because I just enjoy it! I have a submissive nature that I had to hide in past, not anymore so i actually like the guy to be in control (to a degree) , and I am not ashamed of that. (I have limits and still wont my interests to be taken into account and not to be taken advantage off, so please dont hyperventilate LOL). Please can i just be me, and not dragged over the hot coals for it by some who have different views. Lilia
I be bi. I don't welcome compliments when I know person is just stroking, catting or being obvi sarcastic by facial expressions or knowing this person don't like me so is insincere. I enjoy stranger compliment best since more sincere
Then sorry but you are part of the problem, the fact that you think being talked over and having to put up with sexism is equivalent to being (seen as) a woman is quite insulting actually. We (cis-women) dream of being treated fairly and with respect and everytime you knowingly pass as a woman and actually support sexism and men being disrespectful to you as you perceive they would to any women (just because you enjoy being seen for who you are) you are making it harder for us. I am a massive intersectional feminist and support 100% trans people so when a trans woman declares she isn't a feminist it seems a bit like an insult, kind of like she wants (what she perceives) as the advantages of living as a woman and wanting other women's support in doing so while not being willing to provide this support back. I understand each have personal reasons and I respect that but I genuinely fail to understand it. Hi Sorry for my late reply to these comments, I did not realise they were here. First of all i am amazed how my simple comment of not regarding myself as a full on feminist can be meet with such comments that people like me are letting woman "real woman down", with the fight for equality etc. Being a trans woman (therefore not a "real woman" in some eyes as pointed out), it seems even now I still need to act, be a certain way, in order to fit into woman hood. It seems I just cannot just be me, as i live the life as the woman i so longed to be. I suffered with this before I transitioned, at school I was teased endlessly as I had feminine mannerisms, as well as interests, hobbies. i had to suppress these mannerisms , as best I could, failing badly often. Teacher would yell at me in class to stop acting like a girl, I was told to stop hanging out with girls, as teachers would say I was being creepy, weard, even though I was not attacked to them, I just related to them, enjoyed doing girl stuff. I had to instead be this be that do that instead. I had to pretend to be "a man" so act strong, dominant etc etc, even though I had a quite and submissive nature. So when I started living full time as a woman, 9 years ago, I am now 41, instead of part time, the feeling of, omg at last I can just be me was so huge i cant explain! Though I was not much, or good at being a boy (still hate using that word) I can promise you being a boy, man, comes with its own issues straggles I can promise you, its not all roses being a guy as well, trust me. Its not just only woman who struggle. Trust me girls, there are advantages being a woman too, even i, as a trans woman, have noticed you get away with things that no way you would get away with as a guy, and you are treated better by public in many cases and there is more of a sisterhood, were as as a guy you are often on your own, more dog eat dog. I have recently been told by good meaning feminists, the following. I needed to go camping at a LBQT festival, I asked a male friend before I left to show me how to put a tent up that he lent me, when I told some lesbian woman at festival this they jumped down me and said "you dont need a man to show you how to do that". I was not game to tell them that I still had issues at the camp site and a couple guys offered to helped me, and i gratefully said yes please. I often ask a stranger guy for help if I am lost, need help etc etc, much to a GFs dismay hehehehe. I have had similar issues faced by "real woman" as well, Im happy to line up to use the toilet LOL. I have been spoken over so often by guys at work I have lost count, I have been followed by a guys, had unwonted attention in pubs, bars, the street. I have even had a guy rape me in a park, and the extra fear that he may kill me when he discovers Im trans if he did not already know. Endless sexist comments. But when i transitioned I promised myself that i would not jump up and down when meet with sexism, i mean i dislike it yes, but I figured i had to accept being a woman has its draw backs as well, and take the good with the bad. I dont wont people telling me I should act this way or do this or that, Iv had my whole life that way, not now, no more, I wont to be me. I do my best for feminism were I feel fit to do so, in my own little way. OMG even in the bedroom I am told, that i should not do such n such with even a BF as its demeaning to woman, even though I may in fact like it. So I will get a BFs dinner, breakfast, not because I enjoy letting feminism down, but because I just enjoy it! I have a submissive nature that I had to hide in past, not anymore so i actually like the guy to be in control (to a degree) , and I am not ashamed of that. (I have limits and still wont my interests to be taken into account and not to be taken advantage off, so please dont hyperventilate LOL). Please can i just be me, and not dragged over the hot coals for it by some who have different views. Lilia
Because saying you aren't a feminist is pretty much saying you aren't for equality all while wanting to be considered equal? You are entitled to feel that way and it's fine but people are bound to be a bit surprised by it and have their own opinion of it. All women are different, there is no way to be a "real" woman, what would being a "real woman" even mean anyway? I sure don't identify with the entirity of other women. Nobody ask of you to be a certain way at all but if by real women you mean people pointing out the differences between "trans" and "cis", unfortunately it is always going to happen. I don't think pointing out that there are things a trans woman won't experience that cis women do (and vice versa!) invalidates your status as a woman at all, the same way a cis-woman not experiencing everything other cis-women might go through (such as pregnancy or else) don't make them more or less "real" women. You are 100% a woman but your journey is different to the one of a cis-woman, no point denying that surely? I am sorry this happened, the idea that some activities/behaviours are "un-manly" or "too feminine" or whatever is utterly ridiculous, and I am very sorry you were made to feel terrible for liking different things to what people expected you to, you should 100% embrace the person you feel you are and live your life accordingly. Those women aren't feminists, they are just being ridiculous, yes it's true that you don't need a man to show you how to do that but assuming you asked him because he was the most qualified to show you and that you would have asked him, had he been a woman, I can't see what the fuss is about, there are plenty of things I can do on my own without a man "mansplaining" it for me but if I don't know something and the most qualified person to help me happens to be a man, I will gladly accept his help and listen to his advice/tips. It's not about refusing all and any help from men, it's supposed to be fighting against the idea that men are the only one who can help (think woman working in a garage and someone assuming she is the secretary and wanting to speak to a man about his car when this lady has been fixing cars for years, type of scenario, which has nothing to do with this current situation). When people are being ridiculous like that, put them back in their place. There is nothing anti-feminist by accepting help from men if you need it. Nobody ever said there is zero advantages to being a woman, I can think of plenty: often free entrance at clubs with free drinks, easier to get in etc... I can also acknowledge why those privileges are a thing though, it's rooted in sexism (clubs also need women in there to attract men who are much more likely to spend money than women are so they need some sort of pawns to attract them inside their club aka women willing to get into their club first). I love being a woman, I wouldn't change it for the world, I definitely wouldn't want to be a man, it doesn't mean I can't see the advantages that come with being born one though. And if the few examples you have given are the main thing we have to look forward to as women, it's pretty sad. (I am very sorry you were raped by the way it's absolutely horrible and thank you for sharing) How much of this do you believe you would experience or would have experienced had you been born a ("sterotypical") man? , I am saying this because those are indeed and unfortunately only a few of the real concerns women experience on a daily basis and when you compare it to your former statement (about the upsides of being a woman) the whole picture looks pretty grim (doesn't it?), and does lead me to wonder that while yes men have problems too (of course!) are those things they also fear and have to consider when they step outside their home? (I doubt it) That's what feminism is about, it's about making sure women don't live in a world where men constantly speak over them, get harass when going on about their daily business or raped when walking home at night because men apparently can't control themselves. The fact that we still live in a world where those are common occurences is exactly why we still need feminism. You don't have to be a feminist but feminism is made so you as a woman, don't have to "put up" with it, regardless of whether you think it comes with the package/luxury of being a woman. That's ridiculous, again, I don't know who are those pretend feminist you meet but that's ridiculous. Feminism is about freedom for women (and minorities), that involve freedom of being as submissive or as little to a man as they want, there is nothing anti-feminist with cooking for your man, doing his laundry and staying at home looking after the kids and cleaning all day if that's something YOU, as a woman, want to do and chose to do an enjoy doing, as long as it's a choice the woman is making and not an expectation her partner has for her, it's 100% a feminist choice. Will some women disagree and say it's anti-feminist yada yada? of course! Are they right? Hell no, and if they tell you so, please send them the definition of feminism again. Being a feminist is about being the woman you are unapologetically, regardless of what society will think and/or say of you, which is exactly what you are doing so keep on. Not everybody will agree with your choices, the same way not everybody agrees with mine and that's okay. Agree to disagree and keep on living your life I suppose, do what feels right for you (regardless of what I or anybody else's think) and I think you are already doing a pretty good job at it so keep it up, I suppose.
