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trans without dysphoria

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by milomaybe, Oct 17, 2018.

?

in your opinion, do you need dysphoria to be trans?

  1. yes

    38 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. no

    19 vote(s)
    33.3%
  1. milomaybe

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    in my opinion, you cannot be trans without dysphoria- what are the warning signs? how did you know you were trans? you just decided one day?
    sorry if someone out there doesn't agree, but "tucutes" and "transtrenders" do in fact harm the trans community by gaining attention through their crazy "genders" (personality traits), making everyone think that transsexual and transgender people are crazy.
    sorry.. i just had to get that out.
     
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  2. RedMoth

    RedMoth Guest

    It's not that I'm going to try and invalidate or disrespect somebody for saying there trans without experiencing any dysphoria. However, I don't understand where the need to label yourself as trans comes from if you're not experiencing any sort of dysphoria. If your somebody who does identify as trans but doesn't experience dysphoria where does that come from? When did you realize you were trans? Is there anything that you're uncomfortable with that clued you into being trans? I just don't understand.
     
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  3. Hats

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    In my case I knew when I had a gender switch accompanied by dysphoria. However, since then I have experienced switches both with euphoria but no dysphoria and also switches without either euphoria or dysphoria. In my experience it’s definitely possible to know you’re trans without feeling dysphoric.

    By referring to “their crazy "genders" (personality traits)” this sounds like you view non-binary genders as illegitimate genders. Am I correct?
     
    #3 Hats, Oct 17, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
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  4. milomaybe

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    I don't view nonbinary genders as illegitimate. I think they make a lot of sense, but when people are going aroud saying their gender is "plant" and their pronouns are "aer/aers/aerself" I'm not going to think they're transgender.
     
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  5. milomaybe

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    I completely agree.
     
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  6. Hats

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    I’ve never seen anyone identify as “plant”, but in the case of neopronouns personally I don’t have a problem with that. After all, discussion of nonbinary trans identities is a much more recent thing than discussion of binary trans identities and people are only just starting to find words, including pronouns, with which they feel comfortable describing themselves.
     
  7. Kodo

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    Personally, I believe that you need to have dysphoria in order to be trans. Otherwise it would make no sense to transition.
     
  8. Mihael

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    All ridiculous "gender" identities aside, I think you are making a wrong assumption that certain people's needs negate other people's needs. No mature individual will deny that fact that different groups might need different things.

    You are also making the wrong assumption that the trans person in question lived as the opposite gender to begin with and not outside norms.

    How does one know? Deep inside you just know. And the right gender feels right, obviously. On the flip side, hating your breats or genitals doesn't make someone trans, such body issues might have many different reasons. Same goes for the name and clothing and whatnot.
     
    #8 Mihael, Oct 18, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
  9. pinkclare

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    I've had these conversations in several different contexts throughout my life and almost always when one person says you can be trans without dysphoria and another says you can't, it turns out they are defining the word "dysphoria" differently.

    Sometimes this is quite obvious. I've heard folks claim something along the lines of, "I don't experience dysphoria, but I really wish I didn't have breasts." Well, guess what kiddo? That feeling of wanting your breasts gone is a type of dysphoria. Even a mild discomfort, when gender-related, can be dysphoria - it doesn't have to be full-out rage.

    Other times it's more subtle. Take emerry's post above for example. "The right gender feels right." Well, if the right gender feels right, what do the other genders feel like? At the very least, they must feel some type of "not right" if you are able to make the distinction of one feeling right. And, as I define it, living as a gender and finding it to be not right is dysphoria.

    With that definition, I don't think it is possible to be transgender without having ever felt dysphoria (obviously many are able to transition away from it, so there is no need to consider dysphoria a permanent state). The only people who have never lived as a gender that felt not right are cisgender.
     
  10. Pret Allez

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    Sorry but I am a bit confused and not sure if I am able to parse out what you mean. On one interpretation, it's a radically kind statement. On another, it's a really hurtful transmedicalist thing to say. I hope and trust that you mean it in an affirming, compassionate way.

    I delayed HRT by probably three years because I suffered under the fear of gatekeeping and the thought that I wouldn't be seen as trans enough. I just started too months ago, and I'm very happy. But the gatekeeping really, really hurt, and I'm still triggered by it to this day.
     
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  11. Mihael

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    I don't like this way of framing being transgender. Being transgender is having a gender mismatch, not some discomfort. We don't become the gender we are as we transition. We were this gender to begin with. Just nobody saw that. Maybe even we ourselves didn't see it.

    Some people are uncomfortable with being more androgynous, yes. Having the characteristics of the opposite gender. Some aren't.
     
    #11 Mihael, Oct 24, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
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  12. i7025

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    you need dysphoria to be trans otherwise you would be more likely to de transition
     
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  13. Pret Allez

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    Cool, so I'm not sure if I have dysphoria or not but I've been on estradiol and spironolactone for two months, and things are absolutely fine.
     
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  14. antaeus

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    I don't think it's useful to frame this in terms of respectability. I think it's a meaningless standard to most transphobes, as 99% don't even understand what gender dysphoria is. People already that trans people were crazy, IMO they've just found another way to express it. If you look at the cis people making fun of "transtrenders" they're almost never focusing on if they have dysphoria or not--they may reference it disingenuously, but the focus is almost always on shaming what they don't understand. Most of the time, the jokes target a person's gender nonconformity, physical appearance, or their politics; dysphoria is just brought up so they can shirk transphobia accusations while upholding an image of a "respectable" trans person that's politically convenient for them. It's always about excluding the other, and you can't work within the confines of respectability politics without throwing another group of people under the bus. I think it's necessary to work towards a society that's universally open-minded and accepting so that people can freely question how they feel and if transitioning or identifying a certain way will help them. I know it's utopian, but I think it's very possible on a small-scale and you don't need to actively work against it.

    Even accepting your premise, I don't think that it's productive to say it. Gender dysphoria can be tricky to identity, and a lot of dysphoric trans people may not fully understand what it is. Some people who call themselves non-dysphoric may experience the same level of disconnect or discomfort as a dysphoric person but not call it that because they don't understand what gender dysphoria is or find it useful to understand their experience that way. It's really just giving ammunition to people who do not care.
     
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  15. fadedstar

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    Language and biology are two separate things. And the layperson in general doesn't have the intellectual capacity or curiosity required to comprehend the nuances of biology.

    Edit: I'm saying the layperson's assessment of another when it comes to such matters is irrelevant and baseless.
     
    #15 fadedstar, Oct 29, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2018
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  16. Hillary B

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    I have read this thread with interest. I don't see myself as being out and out dysphoric. But I do see myself as (mtf) wanting to be the woman inside - and okay sometimes outside when I've worn more female oriented clothes/makeup etc - that I"ve always wanted to be.
    I know this is in safe discussion on EC but I still think all of us should be incredibly careful about making a sort of 'I think this... [about other people/their degrees of dysphoria]; I think that...’ about other people's positions and journeys on the trans and gender oriented arenas.
    Live and let live.
    Let's all be true to ourselves and not try to put ourselves into categories that limit human freedom and expression.
    And support each other.
     
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  17. Athexant

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    I'm of the opinion that people need dysphoria to be trans. Now, I will say that dysphoria looks different for every individual. It is more severe for some individuals than others. Some people describe their dysphoria as a "hatred" for their bodies whereas other trans people describe dysphoria as a "disconnect." Some people may only experience dysphoria about some body parts but not others. Some people have dysphoria but choose not to undergo surgery or medical transition, which is completely valid. There are also different types of dysphoria, namely body and social dysphoria. I personally believe that you have to have dysphoria to be trans because if you didn't, there is no reason for you to transition. Even "gender euphoria" that people push only makes sense if you felt a disconnect before, which would be a sign of dysphoria.

    Also, I am studying to be a medical doctor. There is scientific evidence that the brains of transgender people are structured like the brains of the gender that they identify as. For example, an FTM trans person like myself has a brain that is structurally similar to a cisgender male's brain. In addition, there is evidence of different hormonal changes during the fetal development of the brain and genitals that influences a person's knowledge of their gender identity. Being trans is rooted in science.

    As for the crazy tumblr genders, I just kind of roll my eyes and move on. However, I also understand that non-binary people exist. I have all of the respect in the world for non-binary and gender non-conforming people. At the end of the day, I'm going to use the pronouns that make other people comfortable, even if I don't agree with them (in the case of the crazy tumblr genders). I think the biggest issue I have is "trenders" that hurt the community in the eyes of people not in the community. As a trans person, I have never once said: "Did you just assume my gender!?" but I have to deal with the ramifications of "trenders" and SJWs who think that they are helping when they actually make things worse. There are people who will not take me seriously because when they find out that I'm trans, they think that I'm some super-sensitive snowflake running around and screaming at people for "thought crimes."

    Sorry for the rant at the end, but I feel strongly about this. This is in no way meant to be an attack on anyone, just a push for change.
     
  18. Athexant

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    I'm really sorry that you delayed HRT and felt attacked by gatekeeping. The medical community is taking its sweet time, but they're coming around. For what it's worth, I'm studying to become a medical doctor in the US, and I'm a trans individual. The premise of diagnosing people with gender dysphoria is not meant to attack you; it's useful because if being trans wasn't classified as a "medical condition," insurance wouldn't cover surgeries or hormones. Having a looser definition of gender dysphoria is nice because there isn't one type of dysphoria that fits everybody. Some people feel a disconnect; others hate their bodies. Some people feel social dysphoria, some feel body dysphoria, and some feel both. Some people might only feel dysphoria about some body parts and not others. There are also trans people with dysphoria who choose not to undergo surgery or HRT for personal reasons, and that's valid. Having any type of dysphoria, no matter how moderate or severe, is the one thing that makes us trans and makes us eligible for medical transition. I feel like trying to push for being trans without dysphoria would be something that insurance companies would use as evidence that they don't have to pay for gender-reaffirming procedures.
     
  19. fadedstar

    fadedstar Guest

    No, you don't need to meet any kind of socially mandated standard to modify your own body in any way whatsoever. I think what one does with one's own body is entirely one's own decision. All assessments and judgments be damned. If you feel like doing it on a whim, I think that's fine. I have zero respect for respectability politics. I see any "value" placed on one individual by another as automatically invalid. I take the "radical" stance that no one is entitled to detract from the autonomy of another besides self defense in response to a direct physical attack.

    Think for yourself and do with your own body as you please.
     
    #19 fadedstar, Oct 30, 2018
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  20. Hillary B

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    Fantastic answer Athexant. That has given me so much to think about and relate to. Yes I can call my ‘dysphoria ‘ a disconnect but it is powerful oh yes! The power to in man mode feel down and close to depression which - when I metaphorically slip Into my woman slip makes me well transforms me into feminine acceptance of life in a less confrontational more (dare I say) submissive way but most of all an accepting way. Especially with the love of girlfriends or gurl friends surrounding me.
    Um I was diagnosed as it were Genderfluid by my counsellor - is that relevant and do you guys gals know if you can be trans and genderfluid??