Any other men

Yep, that seemed to be the conclusion we all reached last night.

After doing some research on the beginning of the word, it also seems like the initial intent. Comes from Plato's view on abstinence of sex leading to God or better enlightenment. So when two people of the opposite sex were able to "get past" the sexual urges then you get a stronger friendship.

It all sounds heteronormative as fuck though and sprinkled with viewing sex as sin from the flesh.

"Plato – the Einstein of Greece’s Golden Age – was long thought to favour love without sex, or ‘Platonic love’, but this new research reveals Plato was far from being a prude,” says Dr Kennedy, who is based in the Centre for the History of Science, Technology and Medicine, part of the University's Faculty of Life Sciences.

“The decoded symbols in fact show that Plato was not an advocate of Platonic love at all; rather he urged a middle path. For him, morality meant moderation – he wanted people to avoid both promiscuity and abstinence."

There even seems to be a debate about Plato's "true" meaning about sex and love, but from what I have been able to gather its fairly leaning towards abstaining from sex for the most part.

I think my friends were talking about the hypothetical situation where a friend is both a friends with benefits AND a platonic friend. I had asked if they thought that was possible. Their answers, for the most part, was that was the definition of a boyfriend/partner. That the combination of both is what you really want from a life-partner.

Which to me was surprising because I want that level of connection from A LOT of people and not just one person, but then again makes sense a bit considering I consider myself polyamorous.

This is why I really need to find some research. I only have stories and definitions from my friends, a lot of them who I have messed around with, so its def not a normal example

Yeah, maybe I have no idea. Mainly because I don't think I understand what it would count as having hard time being emotionally intimate with friends.

I think I have more closer friends than the average person and the connection that I have with my husband is just... out of anything I have ever experienced. But I do enjoy having sex with my friends if things click. Its fun, you connect with people in this very intimate way, and it allows you to get to know people fully. Its truly so much fun for me.

A friend did let me know that he thinks I view sex as just playing tennis. So to me it makes sense to enjoy playing tennis with all my friends because playing tennis is fun, but he also thinks I underestimate how people view sex so much different to the point that I may sound crazy. Who knows. Guess my therapist will have a fun session next week lol

 

Thanks for replying earlier. I don’t think you have a problem verbalizing yourself either.

This disagreement comes down to how everyone compartmentalizes and perceives love. You mentioned Plato earlier, a Greek philosopher. Greek philosophers also separated love into several different categories. You can be affectionate, unwavering, and erotic with a partner(s). The same could be said of a friend; however, the eroticism has to be past tense and not part of the equation now. Otherwise, as you said earlier it’s fwb. If sex is how you define a deep friendship, then that is fine too. Just know that people can reach the same, if not deeper levels of intimacy through varied-shared experiences and values. This is how friendships are formed by people with no sexual interaction between each other. For example: relatives, co workers, mentors, unmatched sexual preferences, age differences and so on.
I also agree that polyamory, along with being in non-hetero relationships influences this as well. I really want to learn more about that topic myself and maybe explore polyamory.

 

In thinking about why I coined the term “developing friends” while living in my new Fort Lauderdale hometown rather than simply saying “friends”, I think this point on gay men having difficulties with emotionally intimate friendships hits the nail on the head; and the notion that gay men have a hard time being emotionally intimate with friends really resonates with me.

After I embraced my sexuality while I was living overseas I was able to establish a small group of close “emotionally intimate” friendships. We were vulnerable with each other, talked about all of our dark secrets and supported each other. Developing this small group of friends took about a year or so for me after I embraced my sexuality.

I have yet to establish a similar group of close friends in my new hometown. Granted, its only been about six months since planting my roots permenantly in South Florida, so I recognize more time is needed. And as I maneuver through the local LGBT community and better understand what makes it tick, I am figuring out where I will be able to find “developing friends” that have the prospect of becoming “emotionally intimate friends”. However, it seems the local community here does have more complexity with being emotionally intimate than what I experienced while living overseas; and at the same time, the local community does seem to be very promiscuous.

I recognize Fort Lauderdale is an “age appropriate” community, where the term “age appropriate” is often used here in place of “retirement” for whatever reason. And within this community, I am no where near retirement age; although I do enjoy hanging out with older generations just the same as younger generations. I am just hypothesizing, but maybe the older generation that is more pronounced here does have a harder time than my generation which was easier to come across when I lived overseas?

i have one developing friend, that has the prospect of becoming an emotionally intimate friend, that is in his mid 60s. When we first met, he was keen on exploring a romantic relationship with me. When it became clear to him, while I enjoy our time together given all the similar interests and life perspectives we share, that I was only looking to be friends, all sorts of drama ensued. However, now that he seems to have gotten past that, he does seem to be more open to being friends, and our relationship seems to be heading in that direction.

While I certainly did previously go through my own promiscuous stage on my journey, I no longer have the urge to sleep around, this also seems to be a limiting factor developing emotionally connected friendships with many that I come across here. Sex seems to be a fundamental part of making friends here, albeit not the type of friendships I am looking for. As I have previously reflected, when combining sex and friendships it seems friendships which include or have included sex become overly complex. And with those complexities underlying drama is created which impedes the development of a true emotional connection between friends.

I have concluded that for me I prefer to establish real emotionally connected friendships without the inclusion of sex. For where I live this seems to mean it will take longer to establish a new close circle of friends, but I am OK taking the time needed doing so. Being new to the community, I am getting a handle on the avenues I need to take in order to find such emotionally connected friendships, however narrow those avenues may be.

 

Okay, this is where the jump happens where its starts becoming a toxic message for me.

You are holding to the idea of this enlightened friendship that can only be attainable through not having sex and that the act of not having sex will get you to this level of intimacy faster.

Same thing is said about waiting to have sex with the person you are dating. Or that you should wait until marriage.

Seems like this culture is just obsessed with the idea that sex gets in the way of connecting to others.

You say that I should be open to the idea that you can connect to others without sex, but I have never doubted that. Most people in the world believe that. The vast majority of the world also practices relationships like that. I'm open to the idea that there are many paths to connecting with other people and not just one enlightened way.

I have chosen not to for a variety of reason, but the main reason is because it has also worked for me. I have an amazing group of friends, my life is just bliss right now for me, and a lot of it has happened for me since I was able to let go of this toxic message that sex cannot be another road to connecting with others and not just your "other half".

This might just be one of those subjects that we are gonna have to disagree with

Oh, I'm totally with you. This is why I hope that most white people stop relying to heavily on white therapists only.

My therapists is queer, poly black woman and I am in love with haha

 

If you have access to any research about this topic I would appreciate it. While I'm content with how its working in my own life, I would be very curious to learn more about this subject. So far, I haven't found any research that has looked into relationship satisfaction between people who waited to have sex and those who didn't.

In the research that you found, what seems to be the amount of time where there is no longer a significant improvement to the relationships for waiting. For example, I'm guessing there is no significant improvement from waiting 1 year compared to waiting 5 years before having sex.

I have reached out to a couple anthropology professors to see if they can help point me in the right direction. Really trying to find some studies about polyamory relationships too since that community seems to have been able to master what I'm talking about.

For my personal take, I slept with my husband within the first week of us meeting. We messed around the third day we met. We have been together for 7 years now and no major issues so far, so it just further confused the hell out of me why people are so afraid of having sex with people in order to make a relationship work. Granted its only 7 years, but my parents have been together for 30 years and they got engaged within one month of getting to know each other and married 11 months into their relationship. Didn't even wait for marriage to have sex and they have a great marriage.

Seeing data for myself would be very helpful if you happen to have access to some studies that are hidden behind some paywalls.

 

All my male platonic friends are straight. They've been much better at keeping in touch with me than any gay guys I've tried to be friends with.