[Hawk's Thoughts] Cis...? Trans...?

You're right. All those things don't mean you're a man. That's why the questioning stage can be so difficult. It's the pronouns and how people were perceiving me in society that really cemented the idea that I'm a guy, for me. That and the intensity of gender dysphoria. Do you experience dysphoria? If you have discomfort with your primary sex characteristics then thats a massive indicator that you're trans. Also social dysphoria, feeling uncomfortable with pronouns and the way you're perceived in society can also be an indicator (the latter not so much as I know a lot of women feel uncomfortable with their position in society and want to be seen to be the same as a man).

What is it that made you believe that you were trans in the first place? Are there any close friends or family, even over skype or on a call that could use your preferred name and pronouns? It really does help cement things in your head to hear it from someone else.

 

Hey, Hawk. How supportive are your parents of your gender and sexuality questioning? Do you think that you're mom said you might not be trans because she doesn't want you to be, or does she genuinely feel this way? Same with you dad. Does he think you're not interested in women because he wants you to be interested in men?

I think (based on my perception and what I read on this site) that the questioning phase is harder for AFABs than it is for AMABs. For cultural reasons, AFABs are given much more freedom to experiment with gender and masculinity than AMABs are with feminity, and society has allowed masculine women to exist more than they have allowed feminine men. And this leads to questions like yours, "am I masculine woman, or am I a man?" Aberrance already touched on being perceived as a certain gender by society, and this was also what cemented for me that I'm trans. Yeah, I like feminine things, but my gender identity is much deeper than that. I could be the most masculine woman in the world, not wearing makeup, with short hair, but I still want society to see me as a woman.When I walked into my first appointment with my gender therapist (it's awesome that you have one scheduled - definitely keep it), and she used the right pronouns and my chosen name, I truly felt euphoric, it just felt right and I knew it was me.

How do you want society to see you? Are you fine with being viewed as, thought of , and considered a woman, no matter how masculine? Or do you feel intrinsically male? I think that's what it comes down to.

PS, if you're looking for bad ass masculine women, Ruby Rose is amazing. She's genderfluid, and has talked about how she was saving up money as a kid to transition from female to male, but one day she realized that she didn't need to, and was happy living as a masculine woman.

 

i wish i could provide you some clarity in any way, but the truth is... gender is complicated as hell. there's not one thing that makes someone a certain gender so it's incredibly difficult to pin down exactly how you feel, even more so if you stop associating femininity with women and masculinity with men and blur boundaries of society's perceptions of a certain gender. there is a lot butches and trans men have in common, and a lot of people struggle with discovering where one identity starts and another begins. historically, a lot of trans men identified as butch - partly because it was more accepted than being trans, partly because there wasn't the right vocabulary to properly express trans experiences yet. there's a significant number of trans man who first presented as masculine women, but later realised they were trans. there are also masculine women who thought they were trans, but as they transitioned realised the case at all and then de-transitioned. there are also people who navigate the space in between, such as female-identifying lesbians who use he/him pronouns and/or experience discomfort with their body in a way that is similar to dysphoria and/or present in a way that society will label masculine and male.

i can't offer you the trans perspective because i'm not trans myself, so for that definitely take a look at the posts above mine! i can however provide you the other side - although i'm not necessarily very butch (i'm more androgynous in terms of gender performance) i did struggle with gender a lot and it took me a pretty long time to recognise where that came from and how to deal with it. in my search i dove into all sorts of perspectives - i followed trans men on youtube, i looked into the stories of de-transitioned women, i read all sorts of non-binary accounts and dove into literature on stone butches like Leslie Feinberg. i asked myself questions such as who i wanted to see me as a certain gender (i did not mind if other women saw me as a woman [given that they wouldn't push stereotypes on me] but i hated the thought of men seeing me as one, because i absolutely did not want to be attractive to them), i experimented with binding, i joined a new website to try out if i'd prefer he/him pronouns - but it was actually when a close friend came out as a trans man that i realised that that specific experience wasn't mine at all. strangely, as he progressed in his (social) transition, i became more comfortable identifying as a woman, because i realised i didn't want any of what he had (and to me that didn't necessarily relate to physical changes). i don't particularly care about my gender anymore - i don't see the purpose of using boxes in society and i don't mind if someone mistakes me for a guy or is unclear about my gender, but i do take great offence with people making assumptions based on the gender they perceive me as, whichever that is. if asked i call myself female almost as a political statement, i guess: i've always been bullied for being the 'wrong kind' of female, everyone's always told me things i do actually belong to men, and for me identifying as female is also a matter of reclaiming that, taking full control over who i am regardless of what society says. and also to kind of stretch the idea of what it means to be a woman, i guess. but i don't particularly concern myself with it anymore these days.

ultimately, it will probably be time, some soul-searching, and life experiences that help you figure this out. it can sometimes be difficult to differentiate between the way you feel, the way you're "supposed" to feel, and in your case, the things your parents maybe want you to be. i do agree with the above about your parents - their ideas are likely heavily influenced by their expectations of you, which in turn are affected by society a lot. they don't know you better than you do - no one does (oh man, if only, so someone could just provide you answers!) so try to not let their opinions get too much in the way of your self discovery. easier said than done, of course, especially if they play right into your doubts. But do remember that just because your dad says you're not gay doesn't mean you can't be, and just because your mum says you're probably not trans doesn't mean you're not. It's good that you're going to see a therapist, and I definitely think that's a great step to take - regardless of what the outcome will be.

here are some gnc women who present masculine in varying degrees to look into if you're looking for some badass women out there:
Leslie Feinberg (author of stone butch blues), Lena Waithe (actress/writer) Hannah Gadsby (comedian), Jenny Shimizu (actress/model), Audre Lorde (writer/activist), Esther Eng (director), Stormé DeLarverie (drag king/activist), Judith Butler (gender theorist), Chavela Vargas (singer), Alison Bechdel (cartoonist), Tig Notaro (comedian), KD Lange (musician), Miki Vargas (photographer), Billy Jean King (tennis player), Meshell Ndegeocello (musician), Annie Lennox (musician)

 

What was that? Those things he wanted and you did not?

Curious, your experience is so similar to mine. But it would just feel wrong for me to say that I am a woman in full honesty. Or put myself in this box otherwise. I keep on envying others that they are being recognised as their gender. It just feels so depressing to hear "a woman can". Idk. It's an interesting topic.

 

To be honest, it's hard to pin down. It's in little things. Just the way people approach him, talk to him, the changes to him as he grew more comfortable with his gender. I was all super happy with these changes for him, but i realized i didn't want them for myself and definitely not in the same way. Maybe it was mostly in the sense that in being trans, there's a heavy emphasis put on your gender both from the outside (people judging you, passing, etc) and the inside (constantly having to defend your gender to others), and i dislike any gender label on me because of the assumptions that come with it, whether that it male, female, or a non-binary identity. My connection with womanhood is strongest, however, because of the experiences I've had in life that I have in common with other women and people afab, not necessarily the core of my being. So it's more of an alignment with political womanhood than actually identifying as a woman per se, but that's the closest thing to identifying as any gender i am interested in.

I don't want to clog up this thread too much with my own experience outside of what Hawk asked about, but feel free to contact me outside of it if you want to talk more

 

Aha. I see. Thank you for clarifying. I know exactly what you mean. Being on the other side of the fence, I care for those small things and like them a lot. Idk if that makes me a man or whatever, but I like the response I get when stataing that. An awful lot.

Yup, got it. Sure, let's not fill this thread with off-topic stuff.