1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

What do the books of Leviticus and Genesis actually say?

Discussion in 'General Support and Advice' started by CuriousLad, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. CuriousLad

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    India
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    So we've just had hearings for scrapping an anti-LGBT law in our penal code. But some religious nutjob representing a couple of Christian associations quoted these to oppose the move. Now I'm not Christian but I've looked these up and I wanted to know how effective it is as an argument, considering that our Constitution like most others is secular? Btw Christians only constitute 2.3% of our population but that's still 28 million so can they move the court with this one? I'm ignoring the other "gays spread AIDS" and "they're threatening tradition" bullshit. They're really the only opposition left because the Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs said they won't contest the judgement.
     
  2. ZeroDarkness

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Florida
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    A few people
    So I won't pretend to know the Constitution of India since I live in the US and I'm sure it's different, but I can offer some insight seeing as I was raised in a Christian family. All I will say is that I don't see religion being a valid argument against actual law, seeing as it doesn't impede religious practices. Law is generally separate (as you said, secular) since if we were to base law on a specific religion, then other religions would be labeled as wrong by default since they follow different teachings and may believe in a different God or gods.

    That being said, I'll touch a bit on Genesis and Leviticus to explain why they are quoted so often. In Genesis, people are usually referencing Sodom and Gomorrah. Specifically, they are taking a passage to mean that being homosexual is a sin and that the people were punished because of it; however, it is much more likely (although admittedly this is my opinion) that they were punished because of the rape going on, not because of the homosexual nature of it. In Leviticus, it is more clear cut as to saying "Homosexuality is a sin".

    In my opinion though, if you are going to be going around claiming homosexuality is a sin from just a couple of passages, then you are ignoring the rest of the Bible and are ignorant by extension. People cling to these several passages like law, but ignore the fact that the Bible was not written by God and was indeed still subject to cultural bias at the time (keep in mind things like sacrificing animals were normal and it was a sin to eat certain animal products that are now staple foods that you can find in any grocery store). The point is, I don't see the Bible as being clear enough on the subject to ever make an actual argument out of it without specifically ignoring other parts to cherry pick what you want to make your point. It's funny how the Bible continuously says to "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and to not judge others yet most Christians spend all of their time judging others and ignore this message every time it is said (keep in mind that it is said significantly more often than anything "condemning" homosexuality).

    Again, this is coming from someone who is Christian and part of the LGBT community, so I'm not trying to trash talk my own religion, it's just that it's all too often taken out of context by what I would consider extremists and not actual Christians. Hope this helps to some degree, I'm sorry I couldn't offer more on the legal side of things.
     
    Ruby Dragon likes this.
  3. CuriousLad

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    India
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Yeah I forgot to update the post. The books were quoted to oppose arguments claiming that the law was solely a product of 1860 Victorian morality. So he said that the Bible somehow still justifies being anti-LGBT. Anyway thankfully the justices was reported saying your exact same words, along with a lot of other logical observations. So I'm pretty sure we'll win this along with protection against discrimination. But we'll need separate petitions for marriage, adoption and inheritance rights so yeah, a long way to go. But we're keeping out fingers crossed
     
    #3 CuriousLad, Jul 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  4. ZeroDarkness

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Florida
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Well hey I'm glad it's working out and seemingly heading the right direction, best of luck to everyone there ^_^
     
    CuriousLad likes this.
  5. PatrickUK

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    6,943
    Likes Received:
    2,362
    Location:
    England
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    First thing to say is that the religious nutjob wasn't quoting the entirety of the book of Genesis or the book of Leviticus. What he was doing was selectively quoting from three specific chapters: Genesis 19 and Leviticus 18 and 20. Fundamentalist Christians have used and abused these passages from the Old Testament for years now and it's getting pretty tedious to hear the same old crap spewed forth whenever their narrow- minded worldview is threatened by progress.

    To save me time and effort, I'm going to link you to a great resource from the Gay Church website that debunks many of the arguments about what the Bible says. The resource was written by Justin R. Cannon, an Episcopal Clergyman and author. Everything he writes in the resource is endorsed by a long list of world renowned theologians (just in case anyone claims bias):
    https://www.gaychurch.org/homosexuality-and-the-bible/the-bible-christianity-and-homosexuality/
     
    Ruby Dragon and CuriousLad like this.
  6. CuriousLad

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    India
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    I tried to go through it and it made for an interesting read. I wonder why this sect or church doesn't have more followers, I mean it's got all the teachings, just without any of the hate.
    Going back to the hearing, as I told ZeroDarkness, the lawyer didn't make a good case before the bench. I mean religious people never have an answer to how atheists or interfere with their own right to practice. So we'll definitely see the law overturned.
    But I'd definitely join the Episcopal Church if I was born Christian and wanted to hold on to my faith
     
  7. Nimmer

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2017
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    UK
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Leviticus also says that thou mustn't wear clothes of mixed fiber. I don't see many 'good Christians' following this, so... That's there for selective quoting, too.
     
  8. Shorthaul

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,498
    Likes Received:
    232
    Location:
    Idaho
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I offended a religious relative when I asked where in the Bible, God said it was a buffet and you could just pick out the parts you liked and tossed out the rest.

    Leviticus says a lot of things, that a lot of people don't follow. So if you spot a religious person with a religious tattoo, merely point out they have sinned according to Leviticus 19:28 You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead nor print or tattoo any marks upon you; I am the Lord.