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Can someone explain this to me please.

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by fadedstar, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. fadedstar

    fadedstar Guest

    Maybe I'm just an idiot but from what I gather "straight" means heterosexual i.e. either a male who is attracted to females or a female who is attracted to males. Time and time again in the lgbt+ community however I hear gay or bisexual people claim that they have slept with straight members of their own sex...?

    Huh? How? Do they mean closeted? Or are straight people somehow overriding their natural impulses and sleeping with their own sex on a frequent basis?
     
    #1 fadedstar, Jun 22, 2018
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  2. Destin

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    Straight just means they're attracted to the opposite gender only. You can still have sex with people you aren't attracted to, so straight people can still have gay sex they just won't like it as much as a gay person would. I mean, sex is still sex, if a straight guy can't get a girl to have sex with them some of them are still willing to sleep with a dude just to be able to have sex with anyone.

    I've slept with a straight friend, and he was not attracted to me at all, so I don't think he's closeted. He was just curious what sex with a guy felt like so wanted to try it once.
     
  3. fadedstar

    fadedstar Guest

    I can understand wanting to try something once but the idea that a person can have sex with someone they have no attraction to whatsoever (just because) is completely foreign to me. I could maybe understand it if for example a straight guy had sex with a women he had no deep attraction to but to me a man who enjoys sex with a man or a woman who enjoys sex with a woman is not fucking straight.
     
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  4. Chierro

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    I’ve messed around with straight guys. It meant nothing to them. They were just horny and wanted some release. But, at the end of the day, they’re straight.

    Now, sometimes, guys are straight but want to experiment and come to realize that they’re bi or gay. That happens.
     
  5. fadedstar

    fadedstar Guest

    This I understand.

    This to me just sounds like straight up (no pun intended) denial, manipulation or cowardice. Clearly it meant something to them otherwise they wouldn't have done it in the first place. If they were that desperate for a "release" they could have just masturbated. I somehow doubt that any of these men are genuinely straight. Because what they're doing goes against the very definition of what it is to be straight. I'm not judging them for their sex lives but I am judging them for what seem like damn lies.

    I guess I will just never understand this.
     
    #5 fadedstar, Jun 23, 2018
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  6. fadedstar

    fadedstar Guest

    Look, basically I can understand why these "straight men" are calling themselves "straight." I get that it can be scary to admit something like that especially when it can change how people view them. I totally understand that. I don't judge them for that because that would be harsh. But what I don't agree with or really understand is us (people who are not straight) calling them 'straight' when they are clearly not. It feels to me like we are doing a disservice to ourselves by normalizing this kind of attitude.
     
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  7. Love4Ever

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    Fo what it's worth I don't get it either and I never have. I do think it's odd that a 100% straight person would willingly sleep with someone of the same sex. To me that would mean they are not 100% straight. But a lot of these people strongly prefer the opposite sex so a lot of them continue to call themselves straight. I mean, I guess you can do that if you want or it's more convenient but to me these people are actually bi. Same with gay people who say they are gay but have had sex with someone of the opposite sex and enjoyed it. So, yes, I'm confused by this as well.
     
    #7 Love4Ever, Jun 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
  8. Love4Ever

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    I think a lot of it comes down to stigma. If you strongly prefer the opposite sex then coming out as bi might seem unnecessary and scary. It's easier for a lot of people to just stay in the closet as straight. Especially if you're bi, because if you're a woman a lot of people won't believe you anyway, and if you're a man they'll just think your gay. So especially for men, if a guy likes women, he will sadly be rejected less if he appears to be straight. There is also the pervasive myth you must be 50/50 to be bi, so people who are NOT fifty fifty don't feel like they can claim ownership of the word which is plain not true. Heck if you are 10% gay and 90% straight you can still be bi. Are you more straight than bi? Yeah sure, but it doesn't mean you can't use the word. Who knows, the person they marry might be of the same sex. Or even a 95% straight person could have an exception to their usual orientation. Stranger things have happened.
     
    #8 Love4Ever, Jun 23, 2018
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  9. Bernice

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    I can see where you are coming from. It's one of the reasons I consider myself Bi even though I haven't done anything sexual with a guy in twenty years. However years ago I think I thought of myself as straight because I was only interested in women. To this day I really am only attracted to women or trans). I have never really found myself attracted to guys. If I'm imagining a scenario in my head (during masturbation) where I am sexually with a guy, that guy is always faceless.
    Would I have a relationship with a guy? No. Would I 'sleep' with a guy? No. Would I do anything sexual with a guy? yes.

    So I guess with some people they base it on where they are really attracted to. Weather that's right or wrong I don't know. As I said I'll now class myself as Bi as I have been with both in the past and would not rule out any possibilities in the future. And to a degree its being proud of who am I and the struggles others have gone through for things to be more acceptable nowadays. That said when talking with some team mates the other week and dropping into conversation how I was Bi I noticed how a couple of people quickly moved away.

    Interestingly a few weeks ago while pondering on weather I was really Bi or not given that any activities with a man was a long time ago I asked a friend (who had previously had a relationship with another female but was now married with two kids weather she considered herself Bi or not she replied that not really as she didn't define love by someone's sexual organs. (so she wouldn't really consider herself straight either, she just is her and doesn't attach a label to herself)

    So maybe by that statement and twisting it a little some of these people who have been with the same sex but consider themselves straight are defining it by people they could be in love with and not just one off sexual encounters if that makes sense.
     
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  10. Destin

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    Since this describes me I'll try to explain. I call myself gay now because there is a large emotional difference between genders. I greatly enjoy sex with both genders, but the emotional connection with guys during it is extremely strong while with girls it's not that big of a deal. I hate describing a person this way, but to me most women just feel like really good sex toys I can have fun with and not much more than that. A guy on the other hand feels like an emotional attraction where every touch is special and makes me feel deeply connected to him.

    I've seen a lot of posts on here saying there's no difference between sexual and romantic feelings, but I certainly feel a difference so I would have to be gay since I only feel strong emotions for guys. Gay seems to make sense.
     
    #10 Destin, Jun 23, 2018
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  11. HDIGH

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    Just as I think it is problematic when we try to police labels within our own community(i.e. the debate on bi/pan and others), so too can it be problematic when we try to do the same for the straight and gay community. I said on another post how too much focus on the Kinsey or % scales can lead to problems. Just because someone experimented with same sex sex doesn't make them gay, or even necessarily bi. And vice versa regarding a gay person having hetero sex.
    It almost seems a reversal of the thing bi/pan face with being told "you're not straight enough to be straight or gay enough to be gay".
    If someone has a 10% attraction to same gender I'm perfectly fine with them considering themselves straight. Only 10% or so attraction to opposite? Gay it up! Those same 10%ers that want to claim bi? High-bi-five and welcome to the club!
    Some that try to maintain their "straightness" may very well be in denial but it is not our place to force them out of the closet, to others or even themselves .
     
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  12. Homoie

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    I have a few opinions on this. Maybe they haven't come to turns with their sexuality and don't want to go through finding a label. Maybe people are only in it for fun or for pleasure and they don't actually have that attraction. I feel like with girls there is a lot more acceptance with "straight" girls having sex with other girls. Maybe because it is fetishized. I don't really know
     
  13. fadedstar

    fadedstar Guest

    There's a lot to unpack here and I'm tired to be honest so I'm not going to respond to everything you've said. I'm not saying we should force any kind of labels on anyone. if people want to identify as 'gay' or 'straight' who am I to say anything to the contrary. We're on the same page there.

    What I'm talking about is when a gay/bi/pan whatever person is repeatedly having sex or otherwise being intimate with the same individual and then calling that person "straight." I perceive that as being rooted in some kind of self hatred/internalized homophobia. Like they are elevating their "straight friend" to a higher position and devaluing/degrading themselves to second class. I think it's rooted in the mentality that "straight is better and more normal." Which is ridiculous because those "straight" people aren't even straight. These "straight fiends" get to have their cake and eat it, they use their queer friends as sexual objects and get all of the privileges of not being in a minority. Whatever, I'm not saying we should police or "out" these people, but why continue the charade on their behalf? (Especially on an anonymous Internet forum.) It just seems so counterproductive and self hating to me.
     
    #13 fadedstar, Jun 23, 2018
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  14. OGS

    OGS
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    I'm pretty much with HDIGH on this one. You say you're not going to force a label on anyone, you're just going to call them liars for not using the one you want them to. What's up with that? Why are you so invested in other people's lives and the way they talk about them? I've known guys who've slept with "straight" guys. Sometimes people are closeted, but sometimes people get drunk, people experiment, people do stuff because it feels good at the moment. Hell, half the gay guys I know have had sex with a woman somewhere in the distant, or not so distant, past. People do things and feel things and then they talk about them. I don't see the issue with listening to people's own accounts. As far as the whole thing about gay people who have long term sexual relationships with people they nevertheless refer to as straight it's not something I've ever actually encountered, let alone something I would feel the need to be upset about.
     
  15. Love4Ever

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    But isn't this being disingenuous? If something "feels good" then isn't it logical to assume that there is attraction there? And if there is attraction to a sex that is not the primary sex they're attracted to, then they're not 100% monosexual. Why do so many people insist on being monosexual? I just don't get why they are so resistant to acknowledging multidimensional attractions. Why is it so essential to sweep any experimentation under the rug as being meaningless? Why is preserving the bastion of monosexuality so important? Why is there so much fear of fluidity? These are questions that have never been fully answered for me.
     
    #15 Love4Ever, Jun 23, 2018
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  16. Chierro

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    Physical pleasure and emotional attraction are different things. If a guy is really horny and he wants a blowjob but no girl and a gay guy offers, he may do it just for the physical sensation. He can close his eyes and imagine it’s a girl. All he is receiving is the physical pleasure of his penis being stimulated.

    The same thing applies to, well, most guys. Say a group of straight guys are roughhousing and being grabby and someone pops a boner. That doesn’t mean they’re gay or bi, it just means that their penis reacted to the touch. Honestly most guys who are horny can get hard easily.

    And sometimes experimentation is meaningless. I actually talked to a guy last year who said he was curious. I said, okay cool, come on up to my apartment, we can hang, see what you want to do. Eventually he decided to try and give me a blowjob but quickly realized that wasn’t for him. He’s not gay. That experimentation meant nothing to him.

    There is zero reason to put labels on anyone. If a guy has messed around with a guy but says they’re straight, just say “Okay, cool.” Maybe they’re bi, maybe not. It’s not up for anyone to decide but them. For some people, sex is all about the physical pleasure. For others, it’s about the emotional connection. Or a combination.

    Also, people can recognize attraction of someone of the same sex without being gay or a lesbian. Girls do it all the time, they talk about woman crushes. Guys can have man crushes. They can recognize “Yes, this person is physically attractive.” But just because they do means nothing for their sexuality.
     
    #16 Chierro, Jun 23, 2018
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  17. OGS

    OGS
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    No, I don't think that's a logical assumption, not to anyone who's actually felt attraction. I mean do you honestly think most people are attracted to toys in the same way they are to people, how about their hands? I mean, a lot of young men the wind blows just right and they're off to the races. Pleasure and attraction are distinct things--I don't see how someone couldn't see that.
     
  18. fadedstar

    fadedstar Guest

    Well that's your prerogative but I think HDIGH is straw-manning me to be honest. I'm not about forcing labels on anyone and I'm not advocating that at all. But when someone is clearly lying about their genuine orientation, I don't understand why you wouldn't just tell it like it is regarding that person... if it's behind their back on an Internet forum, then no one is getting "outed" here.

    And by "long term" I didn't mean years, I just meant more than once or twice... I think it's fair to assume that happens sometimes, no? In my opinion those "straight friends" are using their non-straight friends for sex, so something is going on there. I don't think it's just about pleasure, there are plenty of ways to get that without having consensual sex with someone of the same sex. I've also clearly stated that I understated the concept of straight people experimenting once. That's not what I'm talking about.

    I'm personally invested in this because I don't want to encourage or support the general attitude among "straight people" that openly gay/bi/pan people (who in most cases have already been through enough crap in life) exist to serve them sexually. It's similar to the way some genuinely straight men feel entitled to sex with women. I don't like that sense of entitlement. It rubs me up the wrong way personally and I don't want straight men presuming that if they ask me for sex I'm just going to give it to them automatically.

    I don't think a lot of gay guys really see or want to see where these "straight friends" are really coming from. I'm not a mind reader but I reckon what they're really thinking is "Yeah my friend is one of those gays.. but at least he sucks my dick, which makes it okay." Personally, if I had a straight friend (who openly professed to be straight) spontaneously ask me for sex (,because he knew I wasn't straight) I would dump that person and never speak to them again. I frankly don't give a fuck if a few lgbt+ people enjoy serving their "straight friends" sexually I'm not enabling this bullshit.
     
    #18 fadedstar, Jun 24, 2018
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  19. OGS

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    I think it's funny that you would use the term straw man to describe HDIGH's argument when that's exactly what I thought about your argument. And in this post you pretty much confirmed it: "I think it's fair to assume that happens sometimes, no?" So this isn't even something you've encountered. Yet you're going to use it to call people liars. Sounds a lot more like a straw man argument than anything HDIGH said in my opinion... Again, I've been out and about for 25 years and I've literally never encountered the notion that straight people think we're here to service them sexually. Accordingly, it seems like sort of an odd thing to get upset about. Now if you want to be upset about the way some straight men think about women, that's a real thing and well deserving of your passionate condemnation. Just my 2 cents...
     
  20. fadedstar

    fadedstar Guest

    Do you not concede that things are a bit different now compared to how things were 25 years ago?