1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

LGBT News Supreme Court rules in favor of allowing discrimination against same-sex couples

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by AndHeCried, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. AndHeCried

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2018
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Bristol
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    A few people
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/04/...es-with-baker-who-turned-away-gay-couple.html

    If Jesus were alive today, he'd go into that baker's shop, start knocking over tables and scream at the owners "Hypocrites! Hypocrites! I told you to love your neighbor as yourself!"
    And imagining that scene in cartoon South Park-esque form is the only thing that can make me feel better.
    Also, if someone could dress up as Jesus and go into the shop and do that it would be even better.
    Or it could be an SNL skit.
    God I hate this country.
     
  2. Rakkitora

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    I just read an article about this, it really makes me upset. One of the principles of American is religious freedom, but that doesn't mean using religion to allow discrimination. The truly angering thing is how stuff like this makes it even more difficult for gay couples to get more rights, particularly in the area of adopting or fostering children. It's horrible that religion is used not only to oppress the LGBT community but also to deny opportunities to children in need.
     
  3. ANewHope4

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2018
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    It actually seems to be a really limited ruling that doesn't solve any of the issues at hand. From what I'm reading, the Supreme Court ruled that the Colorado Civil Rights Commission had treated Jack Phillips unfairly. That argument is bolstered by anti-Christian statements made by commission members. The ruling pretty much sidelines the entire question of whether bakers (and others) can discriminate against same-sex couples. There's another case moving up to the Supreme Court involving a florist in Washington.

    It's not a great ruling, but it also doesn't mean that discrimination against LGBTQ has been enshrined in law.
     
  4. I'm gay

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,751
    Likes Received:
    809
    Location:
    United States
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    ANewHope4 (great name by the way) is correct. It is a narrow ruling, and the ruling isn't on the merits of the case. They ruled that the baker's arguments in the lower courts were not given proper consideration. There will be more rulings in the future on this topic.
     
  5. Conquistar

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Illinois
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Questioning
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Morally i stand against this man
    however from a legal stand point i can see where the baker is coming from with his first amendment rights
     
  6. Aussie792

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    3,317
    Likes Received:
    62
    Location:
    Australia
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    The title of the thread is extremely overstated, as others have pointed out. The Court did not say it was okay - they said the Commission which had heard the case in the first instance failed to observe certain constitutional rules on hearing the baker's case.

    If you read the of the majority judgment, you get a clear idea of how this decision was limited to the neutrality of the tribunal. It is an excellent ruling, in my opinion, insofar as it shows the Court has upheld some fairly basic constitutional protections without using it as a backdoor to overturning LGBT rights protections.

    (own emphasis)

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-111_j4el.pdf
     
    #6 Aussie792, Jun 4, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  7. brainwashed

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,141
    Likes Received:
    494
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    My take on the entire incident, from the bakers religious philosophy, his (the bakers) contorted Christian view, I want to control you, I'm going to judge you, you dont do as I say (have a male-to-male relationship), I'm going to perpetrate hate against you, you are going to hell. .

    Thats pretty much how I see the bakers point of view and his version of contorted Christianity which is not at all what Christianity is all about.
     
    #7 brainwashed, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
  8. Biguy45

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    477
    Location:
    United states
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    This isn’t really complicated. Don’t go to a business that does not want you. There are plenty of bakeries, why pick the one you know will refuse unless you are trying to create controversy
     
  9. KyleD

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    25
    Location:
    Spain
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Family only
    I'm pretty sure you can't deny a person a cake based upon their race in America so the same protections should provided to gay people.

    Besides, how will a gay person know who will refuse them service and who will not? Will "No gays allowed" signs be posted in the shop windows or what?
     
    #9 KyleD, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
  10. Biguy45

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    477
    Location:
    United states
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    I believe they knew what his response would be. That’s why they went there. I’m not saying the guy is right, but the controversy is unnecessary. Also, I believe he should have the right to refuse to participate in something he disagrees with. People do things every day I don’t agree with, I simply do not participate
     
  11. Biguy45

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    477
    Location:
    United states
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    I do realize this is an unpopular opinion and will likely get me vilified on this site. However, o don’t base my beliefs on others opinions. So, for those who will be pissed off, sorry, but I’m not going to lie
     
  12. KyleD

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    25
    Location:
    Spain
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Family only
    We will just have to agree to disagree.

    In my opinion a business shouldn't be allowed to refuse service based on religious belief because it is setting a very dangerous precedent. Access to housing, employment opportunities and healthcare can be made into a weapon in the name of religious freedom.
     
    #12 KyleD, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
  13. fadedstar

    fadedstar Guest

    He's working for himself not a public sector. If he wants to turn away potential customers based on some spurious personal belief system that's his prerogative but I think it's a pretty stupid business model. Ultimately he is just creating an opportunity for a competing business to take advantage of, and they will as most people need to make a living somehow. I'm guessing that giving him attention is exactly what he wants.
     
  14. OGS

    OGS
    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,716
    Likes Received:
    728
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Biguy and Nobleshark--would you feel the same way if as a matter of conscience they were turning away black or Jewish people?
     
  15. Biguy45

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    477
    Location:
    United states
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    Well. He didn’t turn them away he just refused to customize it for their wedding. Look, I understand why people are upset and it is a horrible practice and business decision I just have a difficult time telling someone how to think or act no matter how abhorrent they may be. Those people may never go away, but if they are ignored they can be marginalized
     
  16. fadedstar

    fadedstar Guest

    He's the one really losing out and selling himself short irrespective of which race, creed, nationality, orientation, gender identity or religious denomination he refuses custom from. Like I said there is always someone else waiting to earn a living.
     
    #16 fadedstar, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2018
  17. OGS

    OGS
    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,716
    Likes Received:
    728
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I think that's kind of a distinction without a difference even if it were true but it isn't really. They were turned away before they even got around to discussing what kind of cake they wanted.
     
  18. Biguy45

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    477
    Location:
    United states
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    It does make a difference, but it doesn’t really matter. I understand that differences of thought are not tolerated
     
  19. OGS

    OGS
    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,716
    Likes Received:
    728
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    The problem with both of these arguments is that they can be extended to include just about anything. If someone fires you for being Jewish or won't rent to you because you're black, the fact is that there will be another employer or another landlord who will benefit from the fact that they are crappy people. But it doesn't change the fact that someone lost their job or their apartment. There are certain things we simply don't allow in society, blatant discrimination is generally one of them.
     
  20. ANewHope4

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2018
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I live in a small town in an isolated rural area. If a local bakery refused to make someone a cake, there aren't any other nearby options. In many cases, it's not so easy to just go to another business if a local one refuses to serve you.
     
    #20 ANewHope4, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018