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Gun Control....

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by quebec, May 12, 2018.

  1. quebec

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    Ok...I know that this is a hot topic....so, let's be nice to each other (and nice to me, please :old_smile:). After all we are LGBTQ brothers & sisters and NB's and Trans...anyway let's treat each other better than we've been treated!

    @Blast recently made a post about nuclear weapons that started me off on a thought-thread that ended up some where that I didn't expect...gun control. I'll explain....

    I firmly believe in our constitution and especially the bill of rights. I think that the first two amendments are particularly important. So, I am not in favor of abolishing any of the bill of rights.

    However, I question a totally open-ended interpretation of "The right to bear arms". That right is already restricted by current laws. So the concept of a limit on the 2nd Amendment is already in place. We don't allow ordinary citizens to own a completely functional Abrams M1 A2 Main Battle Tank. OK....I know that's an exaggeration...but I'm making a point here. There is a limit to how far the 2nd Amendment stretches. I constantly hear; "Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I also hear; "No one needs an assault rifle for hunting".

    So now the reason @Blasts post got me to thinking... "Nuclear weapons don't kill people, the guy who pushed the button kills people"

    OK....well DUH!

    1) Nuclear weapons do kill people
    2) Assault weapons do kill people
    3) People do kill people

    If we totally eliminate assault weapons.....people will still be killed. If we totally eliminate all guns....people will still be killed. If we lock up every person that has ever threatened someone in the past....people will still be killed. That makes it sound like an unsolvable problem...but it's not.

    We should start in elementary school teaching children the absolute value of all human life (including LGBTQ folks). We should make it clear to kids as they reach middle school/junior high that our 2nd amendment freedoms come with a huge responsibility. That those freedoms where put in place to allow us to protect ourselves and our families. Using guns for hunting was important at the time the constitution was written, but was always secondary to protection. In high school elective classes in gun safety, etc. should be made available. A person who is NOT trained to use a gun safely is a danger to themselves and everyone around them. And yes, we should be more careful with who can buy a gun.
    We already restrict gun purchases, but the system isn't working...it needs to be updated and then enforced. Should people be able to buy assault rifles...I have an opinion...but I think it would be better for a national debate to take place on this topic and then let the people of the US make that decision....not sure exactly how...but we're a democracy (at least in name). So let's find a way to let the people make that decision.

    Gun owners have a right under the 2nd Amendment to own guns. People in general and kids in particular should be able to go about their lives without the fear of dying in a mass shooting. We may not be able to eliminate the violence...but if we can reduce it, many lives will be saved.

    You may be able to tell from what I've written that I am not a bleeding-heart liberal (whatever that is) and I am not a far right "alt-right" fanatic. I do kind of like the middle of the road (my wife always yells at me for driving there). I do tend to lean left even though that's tough in super-red Idaho!

    Just so you know...I am not a gun owner. However, I am a supporter of our constitution.

    Sorry if I've stepped on toes....I'm trying my best to have a sensible discussion on this hot-potato. If I succeed, it will be the first one that I've seen!

    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
  2. Destin

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    I'm not sure classes would help. I agree people who aren't trained are a danger though. If I'm being honest, guns scare me and even if I were offered a class on them in school I'd have been too afraid to take it. I've tried to learn about them because I know it's an irrational fear but it didn't really help. I'd visibly cringe every time a shot went off at the gun range and couldn't even keep my eyes open when I shot them. My eyes would close and I'd tense up from being afraid of the gun and recoil even when I was the one controlling it.

    Also I don't know about other places but Florida gun laws are meaningless. Like no joke I could go buy a military fully automatic machine gun right now in just a few hours illegally if I wanted to. Changing the laws will do nothing here. Enough money can get whatever you want in this state when it comes to weapons and the police totally know and just don't care. The protests against AR-15's are pointless to me because I know teenagers with stuff that makes those look like toys. I know an 18 year old who owns this, and no amount of gun laws are going to stop someone holding it from doing whatever they feel like.

    Saw.jpg
     
  3. Blast

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    Why such a fanatical attatchment to the bill of rights? How can such a document be taken so to heart when it was drafted and amended by none other than aristocratic slave owners? They literally owned people. Who are they to talk of rights?

    Having said that, I believe in gun ownership for opressed minorities. Something which has always been restricted and fought against by those ‘constitutionalists’ who claim to be so in love with the second amendment.
    When the KKK was executing black people in the street, the Black Panthers armed themselves and fought back.

    As LGBT people, we should know the power of direct action. We should know that the spectre of opression is never far away. Never forget the Stonewall riots.
     
    #3 Blast, May 12, 2018
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  4. Naters2000

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    That was a very thoughtful point, David. And I completely agree; teaching the value of human life and the responsibilities of gun ownership would be an excellent thing to teach our youth. Instead of arguing over the interpretation of the second amendment, let's point the energy to churn out people with a healthy sense of what's good for society.