I apologize in advance as my story is long and also apologize for any typos. I am not sure if this is the right place to tell my story but I have to get it out somewhere and hopefully I can receive some honest advice even if it is what I don’t want to hear. I am currently a 30 year old guy who has a wife and a 1 year old. I have always considered myself very happy but lately I have started to question everything I thought I knew and its tearing me apart inside. My best friend and I have been extremely close since we have been young kids. We were pretty inseparable since being around 10 or 11 years a lot. We did literally everything together, including sports to the point where my parents actually made me choose a different activity to do in middle school because they thought we were spending too much time together and I was not making any other friends. In high school we ended up doing the same activities and played lacrosse together all 4 years. Obviously hanging out together all the time we fell into the same friend group and started dating people and always hung out together as a 4 some. When it came to choosing to apply to college together neither of us even had a conversation about going to school together, it was simply so “What school are WE going to next year”. And so we got into the same school and were roommates there. I had never looked at him anything but platonically ever until college. He was my best friend and that’s all I knew. We both did the college things, we drank, we partied, we had sex with girls, we dated girls, but nothing ever serious. The more I look back there was probably plenty of girls I could have started a LTR with but did not because we always wanted to hang out with one another instead of me or him hanging out with a girl long term. The summer after our junior year he got offered an internship for his major at a city that was 2 hours away and it devastated me. I did not want him to go at all. I hated he was going to be that far away. I remember driving there every weekend to hang out with him because he did not have a car while he was in the city. There was one night toward the end of that summer when I went out there on a Friday night and we went out drinking and got really drunk. I don’t remember exactly what I told him when we were out but I do remember talking about how much I missed him not being around every day. That night when we went back to the apartment he was renting for the summer I climbed onto the couch in the living room like I had done all summer to go to sleep. I don’t remember exactly how it happened but he told me to just come sleep in his bed. I don’t remember questioning it at all in that moment but had I been sober I absolutely would have been like, what is happening. So I climbed into his bed and I remember my heart was just racing non stop until I just passed out. The next morning we were both incredibly hung over. He had a TV in his room and we just laid in his bed for hours and watched TV until we went out later and got food. I couldn’t stop thinking about what was going to happen that night. Was I going to sleep in his bed again? And sure enough that night, both of us sober, I went to get ready to stay on the couch and he said, “Oh we can just share the bed again.” And from that moment on we always shared the bed when I would visit him for the last few weeks of that summer. After college we both got good paying jobs obviously living in an apartment together. It was great. I was really happy. Then I ended up meeting someone at work, a really great girl. She was what I was looking for, fun, energetic, job along amazing with my best friend. They got along so great in fact she ended up introducing him to one of her friends and they started dating. For the next couple years the four of us did everything together. We went on vacation together, we went to each other’s family events, we planned parties together. Eventually I ended up proposing to my girlfriend and we ended up getting married and buying a house together. My best friend and his girlfriend followed suit soon after and got married a couple years after we did. I remember a month after I got married we talked about going out to dinner that Friday and during work that day I had text my best friend saying, hey we are going out to dinner tonight make sure your girlfriend are there. I got home that night and my wife and I had a huge fight about it. She wanted alone time with me she accused me of only ever wanted to do things as couples. I honestly had not even realized I was doing that. I just knew I loved spending time together as the four of us and that’s what I assumed everyone wanted. After that fight I said I would be better about making time for us to be alone more often together. After my best friend and his girlfriend got married they ended up buy a house in a close by neighborhood to us (they hadn’t lived far away before that either). Again our cycle continued, we always did things as a 4 some, and life went on as usual. My wife and I had talked about wanting children for a while now and we started trying. It did not take every long we ended up getting pregnant a couple months after trying. I remember specifically going out one day after work to have beers with my best friend and telling him that my wife and I were going to have a baby and it was the oddest reaction. He was like well now I have to have a baby. I remember saying our lives weren’t a competition and he doesn’t need to have a baby just to keep up with me. He got so angry at me (and we never ever fought) saying he doesn’t feel like he needs to keep up with me he just wants to have kids that are the same age and to not assume things. I couldn’t understand why he was so upset. We never ended up talking about that night why he was so upset and just ignored it. But sure enough 6 months later his wife and him got pregnant. He called me on the phone one Saturday and he told me about it I teased him about how he reacted when I told him I was having a kid. Again I got very defensive reaction from him and he said I don’t realize how much things would change if I had a kid and he didn’t. I told him it wouldn’t have changed anything. He said there wasn’t going to be much free time in the future and we should plan a trip to get away together. One last trip before we become “family men.” We ended up driving to New York City a couple months later, a spot where we had driven to a lot in our 20s since you can drink till 4am. We planned on staying for 2 nights. Got their pretty early in the day the first day which led us to start our drinking binge pretty early. By the time midnight came out I was pretty hammered, I wasn’t sure how much more I was going to be able to drink never mind staying up till 4am like we had originally planned. My friend was pretty much their too. We had brought some alcohol to pregame a bit in our hotel room so I convinced him to go back and we will just hang out in the room and have some more drinks there. We went back and the 20 minute walk back to the hotel made me realize there was no one in hell I was going to be able to drink another drop when we got back so I was really looking forward to just going to bed. We got back to the room and there was no water anywhere so I walked down to the lobby myself into the 24 hour gift shop and paid an outrageous price for 2 bottles of water. When I got up to the room my friend was laying in one of the beds and he had placed our bags and cloths on the other. I said oh nice, I have to moved all this shit now, and he said no just sleep in this bed so you don’t have to move it. Again being drunk like the last time this scenario was presented to me I did not even question it. What did it matter, we had slept in the same better lots of times up till this point. Sober me would have screamed… right but all the times before there wasn’t another bed available to sleep in. So I climbed into bed. I stared at the ceiling for a while and rolled over as I always sleep on my side. Then my best friend rolled over to my side and put his arm across me and pulled me into him. I laughed and said what are you doing. He said I’m going to sleep and you get to be my cuddle buddy tonight. I must have passed out pretty soon after that because my next memory is waking up and seeing the clock at like 5am with a pounding headache and we were still in that same position. Him with his arm around me. I remember wanting to get up to get the advil out of my bag I brought but I really did not want to move from the position I was in. I like his arm around me and if I moved maybe sober him wouldn’t put it back there when I got back into bed. My pounding head got the better of me and I ended up getting out of bed and taking the pills. My friend woke up and said grab him some too please so I did. I gave him some and he took them and I climbed back into bed on my side. I rolled back onto my side and sure enough he rolled back over and put his arm back over me. I’m not going to end up going into details about what happened next but ended up kind of rubbing my chest and stomach with him hand and then ended up bring his hand lower and lower until it was in my pants. He ended up feeling me up down there and I was aroused. Neither of us said anything until finally he said, you know, you never would have pushed us to this unless I did. Again I don’t really want to get into the details on here, but that night was the first time we fooled around together and we ended up kissing a bit that night too. The next day we didn’t talk about what happened, just went on like normal and that night drank again and same thing, fooled around in bed. That basically was the start of when I began to question stuff. Since when did I like guys? I had never had the urge to look at gay porn or anything before. It was like I was being gay only for him. I’m not sure if it was intentional or not but neither of us mentioned gay or bi ever that weekend or for the year that followed that weekend in NYC. After NYC we got back and did not talk about what happened in NYC. We went along with our lives as normal for a few weeks but my problem was I could not stop thinking about what happened. I started to jerk off constantly about what we did with each other in NYC. Then a couple weeks later him and I were drinking in my basement, drank a lot and I made a move and we fooled around again. This pretty much became a thing for months. It just became a thing we did when we would drink. And then it started to become a thing when we didn’t drink. We would just be hanging out watching baseball or hockey, or a TV show and we would mess around. This continued for a long time and we started going away together more often too as a way for us to be alone together. I ended up having my kid and he has his kid and our weird hook up relationship continues. Right now I know that I am in love with him, more than I have ever been with my wife. I don’t know how much longer I am going to be able to continue this messing around with him on the side with a guilt I feel for my family. Should I keep going with how things are or is that even too fucked up to suggest? Should I confront him about it and see where we stand?
Hi, and welcome. I can understand why you feel confused; the situation is definitely complicated. It seems clear that both of you are enjoying the sexual experiences you are having, and at least on your side, it sounds like it is more enjoyable and more physically arousing than experiences with your wife. And the fact that it's happening, with both of you willingly engaging, when sober makes it pretty clear that it isn't just something you can rationalize with "Well, we were drunk." So clearly there's something going on here, and it's more than just a passing thing. So I don't think it would be appropriate to keep up with things as they are. For one thing, I think constantly trying to do that while trying to maintain the facade with your wife (and he with his) will eventually tear you up. For another, if you and your wife's roles were reversed, you wouldn't want your wife doing this and not telling you. So authenticity is important. And finally, if you keep doing this, it's pretty likely that you'll eventually get caught, which will be really devastating for everyone. If you (both) choose to share what's going on, then you control how it is introduced and under what circumstances, which will have a huge impact on how it is received. I think the first question to really ask yourself is whether you think you can be happier in the long run with your friend than with your wife. From what you are saying, that's the impression I'm getting. And it seems clear the he feels very deeply and strongly for you as well. Once you have some clarity on what you want, then the next step would be to have a heartfelt conversation with him. I wouldn't think of it as a confrontation, but more of a "Hey, we're both doing this, we're both out of integrity with our wives, and that isn't OK. What do we want in the long term? One possibility is each of you divorcing your wives and starting a relationship together. As messy as that is with the kids, if you don't see your attraction and arousal waning (and that seems unlikely), and if he feels similarly, then that is probably the best choice. Your wives are young enough to find people who can truly love them the way they deserve to be loved, and hopefully you can still remain friends. Another possibility -- more of a stretch, but who knows -- is to explore the possibility of a non-traditional polyamorous relationship with the four of you. My concern here is that since the two of you seem very close, and your wife has already expressed some jealousy or frustration with your closeness with your friend, it may end up being the two of you, with your two wives feeling like third wheels. And of course the wild card is what your friend wants to do. Given that you've known him so long, hopefully he will share your values and understand why it's not OK to just continue on with things as is. This won't be easy, and it won't be fun in the short term. So the temptation will be there to say "Well, we'll just keep on doing this, and worry about what to do later." But that's a terrible idea, for the reasons I mentioned above. The challenge is for both you and your friend to get onto the same page about what you want, and then to each talk to your wives. Have you seen the Netflix series "Frankie and Grace"? It is a nearly identical situation (albeit with older people) to your situation; two couples... men are lawyers at the lawfirm they own... they fall in love and are with each other for 20 years without their wives knowing. Eventually, they decide to tell their wives, and the whole first season of the show revolves around the challenges the four of them have to navigate in coming to terms with what this means. The show also does an amazing job of exploring ambiguity in relationships, and the difficulties of situations where people are less than transparent. So it might be good for you and your friend to watch (though... not with your wives, as it might start their gears turning and make them suspect, if they don't already.) I'd encourage you to keep talking about this, keep thinking, and take a bit of time with it. I'm confident that you can resolve it, and hopefully eventually so that everyone is OK with it. That will take time and energy, but I think it's achievable.
Chip offered you some really good advice and I think the time has come for you to have a serious conversation with your friend about where all of this is heading. In truth, you probably should have had the conversation before you married, but I understand it wasn't as serious back then. I don't think you can put all of this down to a really tight friendship or two guys exploring their curious side though, because things have gone too far and you are now making a conscious effort to hook up with each other. I suspect you both look forward to it. I think this was perhaps the most telling quote in your post: It was a clear acknowledgement on his part that he was doing most of the pushing and initiating. In many ways it tells you that he wanted it and still wants it (and so do you) and I would suggest you use this as an opening in the conversation that you now need to have. Definitely take a look at Grace and Frankie on Netflix. Amusing as it is, the show does cover some important ground.
Hey guys, thank you very much for your feedback. I apologize for not getting back right away, I was away for a business trip the past week. I have decided this week I am going to sit down and have a serious talk about it because I can't keep living the way that I am with the feelings inside of me.
I came back here to finish telling my story. So this weekend I finally decided to tell my wife what had been going on. It was probably the worst conversation I have ever had or will ever have till the day that I die. The only way I could possibly describe how I am feeling or felt is like driving a car not paying attention and then getting into an accident and having the person who is your passenger get extremely injured and hurt and nothing happening to you. The guilt that I feel for the things that I have done out of my own selfishness has completely eaten me away inside. I know that in the long run I am making the correct decision but it doesn’t make me feel any better about the choices that I have made. I know that deep inside I am going to have to live with this for the rest of my life. I know that I have to face my family and face my child one day knowing that I did things for selfish reasons, but hopefully people will eventually forgive me for being able to be honest with myself and others. After a few nights of fighting with my friend about this was the decision I had ultimately decided to make – because this what I was deciding to do I was more or less forcing him to make the same choice since seeing how when I told my wife what was going on everything was going to change in our foursomes friendship and relationship with one another. On Sunday I took some clothes and some things and moved into a hotel room where I was able to rent weekly until I find a place of my own. I wanted to stay in the house but I just can’t face my family right now. To be honest I don’t really want to face anyone right now. I’m not really sure what I was expecting to happen with everything when I made this decision to come clean. I guess not everything is the Disney fairy tale ending after all.
I admire you for taking a difficult situation and making the ethical, but challenging, decision. As much as it may not seem like it at present, I think that this decision is the beginning of authenticity, which will lead to healing, for everyone. I also think and hope that, over time, your relationship with your friend will survive this, though it may not seem like that for the moment. Do you have a sense of where he is with this, and what he wants? It might be sensible, if people are interested and finances permit, for the four of you to go to therapy. In a perfect world, each of you could have individual therapists, and you could also have a different therapist to see the four of you for a handful of group sessions. The unusual nature of your close friendship/relationship with each other will make this challenging, but the right therapist could really help. If that isn't an option for one or more reasons, then I'd encourage you to continue talking about it here. And perhaps your friend might consider also talking about it here. The feelings you have for each other aren't going to go away even if he is angry, and even if you feel incredible guilt and shame. But you can work through the shame and come to terms with the situation, and hopefully all of you can work together to decide what is best.
So just kind of an update on things since it has been a while. So after talking it over, my friend and I are going to try a relationship. I mean I feel like after our entire lives just kind of got turned around because of what we have been doing I think we really need to give this a shot. I do love him a lot and although a lot of things don't seem right these days I am looking forward to starting this new chapter of my life with him. Its going to be difficult and challenging but I really want to try and make this work. Its kind of hard to explain but after all the dust has settled, just being with him feels right. Like the last puzzle piece fitting into the last slot to make things complete. I still feel guilty every day about what has happened with my family but I know that this is something I have to do. Not to sound too romantic drama about the situation but its kind of ironic that the saying is true... sometimes what your looking for all along can be right in front of you.
Great story. Great also that your close friend was also willing to give up his current life. For most people, either the feelings are not quite that intense, or the other guy does not want to end his relationship. So your circumstances are quite rare and special. Well done.
