Do you ever feel a little jealous of the younger LGBT generation?

Good point

 

Do you think nudity annoyed you because it made it more challenging to keep the bisexuality buried?

I've had a few phases of swimming for exercise since joining EC in 2013. Previously, I'd been aware for some time that, at the least, I could imagine having sex with another guy. And yet, the funny thing is that I found that seeing nude guys was a lot less interesting than was once the case. Last interesting locker room experience was in the late 1990s, which was probably an era of strong denial. One day, I swam at a college pool, and that day there were many guys who were kind enough to shower nude. Including one very fit guy right across from me. Nothing since--denial era, or post coming out to self era--measures up to that day. And I don't why things changed. Was it somehow connected to coming out to myself? Was it just that I'm older now? Was it just that I just no longer had the luck of seeing hot guys nude?

 

I’m sure I was annoyed because I was repressing it. Now I’d love to see some hot guys nude, but don’t have the opportunity

 

It' an interesting question. I guess I do a little, mainly just because of how much more awareness and visibility there is now. When I was growing up (I'm 47) I actually did not know being gay was a thing. I actually thought I might be the only one. It wasn't like those people are bad or we don't like those people, I didn't know those people existed. I encountered my first openly gay person when I went away to college--and I say encountered, rather than met, because I really don't mean just I met my first one face-to-face I actually mean I really encountered the idea for the first time (and met them face to face). The fact that it took me as long as it did to really come to terms with that idea and that I didn't come out until after college is really pretty much the only substantial regret I have in life and I feel relatively confident that if I had been exposed to the idea earlier (as almost everyone is now) I would have come out earlier. So yeah I guess there's some envy there...

On the other hand I think there's a certain perspective having lived through some of the formative years of the movement that I wouldn't trade in. I think gay people of my generation are generally happier than those of the current generation coming up. I guess it's possible that it really is just a generational thing and the people who are twenty now will be even happier than my cohort and I are now when they are 47, but I honestly and quite strongly don't think that will be the case. And I'm not entirely sure why. I guess maybe you're just meant to inhabit the age you do, although to be honest I'm a little envious of the generation just before mine as well. Yes, I suppose it was all pretty awful but when I discuss it with people about ten to twenty years older than I am--sort of the violet quill generation--it just seems like they lived through such amazing things...

 

Even as repressed as I was, it's a strongly polarized wash for me. Keep in mind that I was almost a teenager when homosexuality was declassified as a mental disorder, and I had been a parent for a decade before it was officially made legal in my state (not that that really mattered.)

On the one hand, yeah, it's easy to say that kids have it easy these days. There is public support, and the people who stigmatize LGBTQI and/or A people usually can't do it with impunity. Speaking broadly, coming to terms with one's orientation and identity can be a more normal part of adolescence.

Personally, I was depressed and kind of hated myself without any conscious cause at least since I was eight. My father was born during the Woodrow Wilson administration, and I'm beginning to suspect that he never really accepted me me until I married and had children. I have vague memories of my mother redirecting me from some "girly" stuff (which was good as a survival strategy, not so good as a growth strategy.) My salad days were in the 1980s; there was a lot going on at the time, and I missed out on a lot of it, and by coming out now I'm losing some old friends and haven't yet made new ones (not to mention some old, old friends who drifted apart way back when.)

On the other hand, there just seems to be less community these days, and identity seems to be a lot more ...labeled, for lack of a better term. Also, while I'm glad that the world can be a less angry place, I'm really glad for the "grit" that I carry from the punk ethos.

Personally (again), sure, I didn't die in the 1980s, but the big thing is that I have my kids. Beyond that, I'm now fairly well situated to wake up, but I think that I would have been happy at any time.

 

Good point, Sarah -- jealousy, envy, regret are all better to dismiss and replace with better things. How about: community, respect, and thankfulness?
Hey, I saw your tagline, about getting something you've never had by doing something you've never done -- I've been wanting to tell you, I'm applying that everywhere in my life: at home, in the neighborhood, and at work. Thank you!

 

really? wow. you are quite welcome. one of my guiding principles too.

 

I will admit to having a few twinges while watching "Love, Simon" a few weeks ago and thinking, I spent close to 10 years in my teens and 20's, trying to figure out what I was feeling and what to do about it, and here this kid has such a simple, uncomplicated, Hollywood-style coming out, complete with a kiss on a ferris wheel and insanely accepting parents and friends. Or thinking how nice it would have been to be able to giggle about cute boys with a friend, the way my daughter's gay friend do with her. And then I remember how shy and awkward and clueless I was as a teen, and think, I'd probably still be confused and miserable because I'd see all these better-adjusted gay kids and not know how to talk to them anyhow. So it's just as well that it took me 50 years!

I usually fight off regret and jealousy with a very big stick. They will never make you feel better and they will never result in a positive change in your life. Like @smee I have my daughters, and I can't imagine a life without their love, support, laughter and friendship. I lost the chance to have the young, innocent and often stupid experiences with love and sex that people often end up remembering with great nostalgia and fondness; but I also didn't watch friends die of AIDS or grow into the habit of isolating myself from people by using them as anonymous sex objects and tossing them out afterwards like damp Kleenex. There is about a 30 year gap in my gay life, but it's not like I was in a coma for 30 years either. I was just doing other things that I wanted to do as well.

I've often thought of the places I'd like to live, and realized that even just looking at types of houses, and not even cities, there are so many that if I were to try and experience them all, I would be hopping around so much that I really wouldn't be able to enjoy them much. Life in general is like that. You can't change the past anyhow, but if you could, the George Bailey/Butterfly Effect ripple that would result would mean that you might very well not recognize what you could end up with, and might be far less happy than you are now. Best to assess your current state, and move forward in a positive way, rather than being stranded in a lot of what-if's..

 

This goes a bit off topic...but for me it's a hugely relevant issue of envying young LGBT men of today...

As I've commented here before a long time ago, I have seriously low income. I see that as a huge problem for dating/relationships. Indeed, it seems so big, so overwhelming that I haven't even bothered trying to date.

Well, I did once sign up for a popular free dating site. I won't name it, since the name is not to be mentioned here, for fear that it could cause the world as we know it to end, and end with the horrible rebirth of the old EC software platform in use a year ago. Sort of like how horror movie creatures come back to life.

In any case, I signed up for a dating site, but I don't think I even filled out my profile. I wandered about, looking at profiles, and thinking...hmmm, he sounds interesting...but there is no way in hell he'd date white trash like me! I deleted hours after joining. And I'm someone who still has membership in every discussion forum I've ever joined that still exists.

I frankly envy younger people. Poverty would seem like less of an issue for a 21 year old--partly because many are poor at that age. Meanwhile, a lot of the people my age might well be guys who came out later in life, and now have huge financial problems caused by a straight marriage ending. A guy who has just lost half of all his assets seems unlikely to embrace someone like me whose value on paper is near zero.

Plus when one is younger, one has more options for fixing cash flow. This current economy makes it harder--but at least a 20-something has time. I sometimes have talked with someone who did counseling at a community college, and it's pretty clear his attitude is: "John, the best you can hope for is enough to rent a barely decent place, and buy groceries!" And with that life, how does one attract a relationship that's even worth having?

 

You're already in a relationship with someone who is worth every moment of your life. Everything else follows from there. Sorry, I know I give advice too often and it may come off as trite (pithy, clichéd,... ), but that's probably the best way that I can put it.

 

The world does keep improving little by little, so I can see why people think this.

 

It should never, ever matter whether someone is straight, bisexual, gay etc...so long as they are nice, friendly, caring, accepting people. So if being more open in society allows the youth of today to be more like that, then the civilised world will be a better place for it...and the knock-on benefits for older generations is obvious. So I'm not jealous at all.

 

Well said

 

Agree 100%. Different set of challenges.

 

Horrific

Yes

Comment: I ask the question, if a gay teen is sent to "conversion therapy" what happens to them? (I'd like to have someone answer that.) I really am afraid to research this. Why? Because I ask, was the boarding school I was sent to similar to a conversion therapy institution? With little to no research, I answer the question yes.

How can I present this theory with little to no research. Well during PE (physical education) workouts I was ordered to do an exercise as if I were humping a girl. In fact I was told ~"think of your girlfriend" I didn't have a girlfriend at the time and didn't want one. I resisted doing the exercise. I was disciplined.

Of course this PE incident & other incidences labeled me as a fag - indirectly. What do you think happens to fags in boarding school filled with older stronger boys? What do you think happens to young looking fag kids in boarding schools? They get beat up a lot. They get hanged from hooks on walls and hit - I was threatened with this repeatedly. They are made to stand naked and basically whipped. Some are taken into special rooms, held down and have broom handles rammed up their rectums. Do you want me to go on? Yes all of this happened and more. Get the picture?

 

Hi, I can understand and relate to a lot of what you've wrote.
I have been going for the last 3 years now as a single parent of 3 and have watched my debt just get bigger and bigger.
I've shared a lot of the same thoughts regarding the apps as well. One thing to keep in mind, not that it is easy for me either, is how we ALL have baggage. Honestly I think that is the biggest thing that keeps me from moving forward. That feeling of not wanting to tackle someone else's baggage, and not exactly wanting to expose someone else to your own.
It is rather intimidating if you figure most everyone else is above your station in life. But I think it is important too that we remember all of us have something special we can bring into a future relationship.
Just because you may not be able to offer much in financial gain, doesn't mean you can't love someone as well, if not better than another could.
Maybe when we find ourselves feeling such things, we should take time and try to find some positive things about ourselves that we can offer someone. Surely at some point there will be someone who considers themselves lucky to have us.
Good luck to you, and I hope you are able to gain some peace somehow with all this.

 

Well-said, @BiBarefeet! It is the content of our character that matters.

 

To some degree the puss of the past must be drained before one can move on. I say the anger and hurt has to be dealt with. This is basically what a therapist or groups sessions does. He/she or a group makes you deal with the puss.

Spot on

Spot on.

 

Yes because now days it’s much more acceptable.

 

I was not part of the gay community hor had even come out to myself during the 1980's but it seems like there was much more of a feeling of solidarity and purpose among gay men back then. Fast forward 30 years and the gay community has been subsumed by other forces more interested in making money off of gay people and the "community" aspect seems largely irrelevant. And the labeling has really gotten out of control. So while it's somewhat easier to come out today it seems that a lot has been lost in the process.