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How to convert a religious homophobe when you're an atheist?

Discussion in 'Family, Friends, and Relationships' started by Tritri, Mar 24, 2018.

  1. Tritri

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    I thought about this and, although it hasn't happened, I need to know what to do in case it does.
    Suppose I come out to a friend and he tells me he has problems accepting that I'm gay. I try to change his mind and let him (or her) come to terms with it so I don't lose him.
    But what do you do if you're an atheist and their arguments are based on religion?
    There are websites that try to debunk the claims of how the bible is against homosexuality, and I could give those links to him. But I can't really argue using myself and not the links. Am I supposed to say, "no, that's just the old testament, that doesn't apply anymore" or "those passages are mistranslated" when that's not really what I think? It's hard to work from within a religion that you don't believe in.
     
  2. Hanyauku

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    I think the most effective way to "convert" someone who is not supportive of homosexuality, especially if that person is your friend, is to just be yourself. A lot times, particularly when it comes to religion, emotional appeals are better than facts and analysis in achieving a desired outcome in the discussion. And what better emotional appeal is there than to be that person's friend? As someone who grew up in a religious household and went to religious schools, I get where you're coming from. Everyone knows someone, and those of us from the Midwest know a lot of people, who is zealously religious and strongly against LGBT identities. The most important thing when talking to these people is to show respect. As hard as respecting their views may be, you won't get it if you don't give it. Be the bigger person.

    Honestly, I don't think showing them analyses of the bible supporting homosexuality will be helpful, mainly because I don't think their dislike of homosexuality is based on the bible. Sure, people hold up the bible all the time in order to support anti-LGBT beliefs, but most of that is cultural. Most strongly religious people are strongly religious because they grew up surrounded by other strongly religious people. That's how churches and organized religion works. I don't think a lot of Christians against homosexuality on religious grounds could recite specific passages condemning it, because they've just heard that it's bad at church, so they believe it. What this shows us is that everyone, you, me, Christians, atheists, and everybody in between, is influenced by those around us. So, be the positive influence in that friend's life. Show them that what they heard about gay people at church isn't true. Most importantly, show them that you're still their same old friend, regardless of who you love.

    A lot of time, people who grew up in religious environments don't know a lot of openly LGBT people. The only LGBT people they know is the negative construct they've built in their mind. I didn't know a single out person until my senior year of high school. It's really easy to condemn something when you're not familiar with it. It's a little harder when it's staring you in the face and happens to be your friend. If they're not supportive of you at first, be respectful, tell them this is who you are and it isn't going away, and keep being their friend as your open, proud, kick-ass self. If they don't want to be a part of your life just because you're gay, they're not worth keeping in yours.
     
  3. DinoArtist

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    Maybe instead of showing him bible verses and websites, assure him that what being said here is between you and him only. He may or may not accept your sexuality but you'll still have a friend just as long as you cone out to him in the most private way possible. Remember that you only risk losing a friend. He's got a heck of a lot more to lose if others found out what his views on homosexuality was. Thanks for sharing.
     
  4. Denial

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    I like to say God loves everyone, since you are atheist maybe you could say "don't you believe God loves everyone?". Also, you could mention that the Bible also doesn't approve of eating pork or shrimp (Leviticus 11:9-12) but that isn't practiced anymore and you don't see this to be any different. However, I have found it's very hard to convert people, I have tried to convert conservative Christians multiple times and have been only unsuccessful even though I consider myself a Christian. I wasn't super close to these people though, had I been it may have been easier for them to accept me. I have found it better to let go of certain relationships that are like this depending on who it is. Or just give them some space, maybe they will change their mind on their own.
     
    #4 Denial, Mar 25, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  5. dudette

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    I am very religious, so I can help you with the arguments :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
  6. Patrick7269

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    I think you’re in an interesting situation, and honestly, I think you need to accept that much of this is beyond your control.

    In my opinion you can simply be an example to your friend. They will have to understand you within their belief system, and your life as a counterexample to their faith may be challenging. I have some of my best friendships with people I don’t agree with, but in your case, you may need a high tolerance for someone that fundamentally doesn’t understand an innate part of you - if you want to continue the friendship.

    Beliefs are extremely powerful when we take them to be tacit proof of something, and we don’t allow the world to challenge our beliefs. At some point a strong belief actually shapes our perception of reality, and the belief is likely to remain unchanged despite strong objective evidence to the contrary. For that reason your friend may not be able to truly understand you, and this is completely beyond your control. Again, I think the best you can do is to be an example of who you want to be, and he can take or leave that gift of your friendship - and you as a human being with an innate dignity and right to be you.

    Patrick
     
  7. PatrickUK

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    Do bear in mind that many Christians will not react in such a way, but if their immediate response is to tell you they have a problem with you, it doesn't bode well and suggests they hold very conservative or fundamentalist beliefs. People like this are hard nuts to crack!

    A person who holds fundamentalist religious beliefs will not listen to reason from anyone - trust me, I know. They will not even listen to a theologian who has spent a lifetime studying the Bible and Christian faith. It works like this: if you are an atheist who dares to argue, you will be instantly dismissed as lacking in all knowledge. If you are a liberal Christian who attempts to argue from a place of knowledge, you will be branded a heretic or the antichrist and you'll still be dismissed. These are not people who will open their minds to alternative views or ideas. In their view, the Bible is inerrant and infallible and only means what is written on the page. It doesn't matter to them that it's a litany of contradictions, written centuries ago by authors unknown. It doesn't matter to them that it has been adapted, often mistranslated and edited with a heavy hand to suit all manner of viewpoints, because only their viewpoint is right.

    In all honesty, you'd be better off pointing your friend/s to the online resources and hope they are open minded enough to read and reflect. Apart from that you can only get on with your life and hope to demonstrate to them that you are not the devils child on earth.

    Do you know what Christian denomination your friend belongs to? If you do, that might offer a clue about potential reaction.