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Dealing with internalised homophobia after coming out

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Alwyn, Jan 1, 2018.

  1. Alwyn

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    Hi everyone and happy new year!,

    I've been away for a while, busy living my life. Some good things have happened: I moved to a better room, have found a new job and made some new friends.

    On the one hand, being gay seems like an ordinary part of my life. I have a small group of lgbt friends (women) and go sometimes to dancing parties for women, am out to most of my friends and important family members. I don't have any "coming out euphoria" left; that phase is behind me. On the other hand, my sexuality/identity seems more like a burden and I am still struggling, even after all my efforts to come out, change my life for the better, meet new people, etc.

    To give some background: I started going on dates with women when I was 22 (almost 23), did come out when I was 23 and joined the local lgbt community (in two different cities, because I moved across the country when I was 24). Now I'm 25, almost 26.

    The most important examples:

    1) I have no positive experiences regarding romantic/sexual feelings whatsoever. I haven’t even held hands with a woman. Having feelings for someone is a burden. Gay and bi women don't seem to like me. No girl or woman has ever liked me that way or showed any interest. Not even in a casual way on the dance floor or during a date. Just nothing at all. I have been active in a few social lgbt groups, met around 10 women from dating apps/websites, went to several Pride events and gone out every few months or so to special lgbt/women dancing nights (there are no lesbian bars left).

    I'm not sure why other women don't like me (so far). I can some across as reserved/shy at first meeting, but I know plenty shy people who have found people who like them and I am already so much more open than before. I don't think it can be my looks. Guys do tend to like me and I have been approached by several of them. Last Summer I was at a lgbt/open-minded festival and a bisexual guy was hitting on me (rather aggressively, even after I told him I only liked women he tried to change my mind and standing really close, calling me "sexy" etc, saying it was "his right" to show interest in me :/). No woman showed any interest in me; I tried to look friendly, smiling and trying to catch the eye of nice looking women but no one looked back / appeared to notice me (which is often the case at large dancing events with loud music). It makes me depressed, because it feels like my life would be so much easier if I could just force myself to like guys.

    I have asked some friends and they don't understand and think I should just meet more people and be less cautious/shy in my approach.

    2) Related to negative experiences, I think I still deal with internalised homophobia. I'm wary around straight women, trying actively not to make them think I might like them. If I actually develop feelings for a woman, in most cases it is for straight women and I feel bad about myself and my feelings. Not only because they are pointless, but because I'm afraid I’m making them uncomfortable. One time I fancied a straight roommate and I tried to repress all feelings and feeling guilty when I would dream about her and I almost didn’t dare to look in her direction, especially when she was wearing a bathrobe (this was one year after coming out). I could only relax after she moved away.

    It also didn't help that the first woman I went on several "dates" with (when I was 23, just after coming out) was very scared of physical touch, making me feel bad for wanting it. We met through a dating app and hang out for several months as friends. I developed feelings for her and after giving some hints, I decided to tell her I really enjoyed our contact and would like to take things further (this was really scary for me to do). She said she was also interested, but we didn’t talk much about it.

    The next time we met I hugged her a bit longer than usual and she backed off, scared. Afterwards she was mad at me and giving me a warning for pressuring her too much and she expressed doubts whether I had “good intentions” because I was moving too fast, couldn’t have a real interest in her as a person. After some arguments she explained that she was dealing with past trauma of sexual abuse and just started therapy to work on this.

    Rationally I know it wasn’t really my fault, because I didn’t know about that and didn’t do anything really wrong, aside from giving a hug which I thought she wanted (miscommunication). At that moment, however, I was very vulnerable (she was the first woman I tried to date after coming out) and still overcoming shame and guilt regarding being gay and trying to make my first connections in the lgbt community.

    Perhaps this experience broke something inside me and made me stuck on feelings of shame regarding sexuality. Like this proves I’m indeed a bad person, predatory, etc. I think I’m more cautious around (potential) dates because of this.

    3) Coming out seems to be getting harder, not easier. My parents were fine with it, but sometimes they talk about my future boyfriend. When I correct them, they get defensive.
    My mother said to me why I hadn’t thought about dating guys again, because perhaps I just need to get over a threshold and would start to like it. :/ Last Christmas they did again refer to male pronouns regarding my future partner and I'm too tired to correct them, it seems pointless. (I’m out to them for more than 2 years now). If I confront them directly they say they are okay with it, I’m just acting dramatically/ too serious and how dare I think they don’t accept it. Basically, I haven't received any support from them, even if they are "okay" with it.
    I haven’t told anyone at my new job, because I don’t see the point and it would make things only awkward.
    I haven’t told my new female roommate (we share the house with each other, so it’s basically the two of us and her cat) because I’m afraid she will think I’m preying on her.
    I’m afraid this means I’m being pushed back into the closet instead of more out.

    Does anyone relate to these issues? Especially if you did come out/realize you were LGBT after your college years? I thought these things would get better after coming out and "finally living authentically", but this narrative doesn’t seem to be true for me.

    Does anyone have any advice how to overcome the internalised homophobia?

    Also does anyone have practical advice about dating women? I subscribed to a speeddate event, which takes place next week and I’m getting a bit scared and reconsidering if it’s a good idea. The age range is 25-40, which means I’m one the youngest and probably most inexperienced person (but this is the only speeddate event for women in the whole country so I don’t have any choice if I want to try this). Because all the other women I tried to date did reject me, I’m already anticipating on the feelings I will have if these women reject me as well and I will have zero matches. I know I have more chance if I’m confident, positive and open. How can I make sure I don’t lose my confidence during this night?

    Many thanks for reading if you've come so far. I'm sorry if this thread is too long.

    Lots of love,
    Alwyn
     
  2. DesireEyes

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    Oh Alwyn I really feel for you. You are so brave to share your story here. I just turned 36 and officially came out a few months ago to my husband and family. Last year I met and fell in love with a 25 year old woman who I would say fit your description very closely. Her and I fell almost instantly in love. Both of us never expected to find love like this, it has been the greatest surprise of our lives. Our situation is complicated, but our love is so true and honest that we feel we can overcome every obstacle and barrier. We are not living in the same town and have only seen each other once in the last 4 months as I have been working through dismantling my marriage and "straight life" We both know it is going to be a long journey but that in the end our love will remain. All I can say is that love can come along when you least expect it in the most unlikely of places. Hang in there, with a sensitive heart like yours I know there is a very lucky woman out there who is wishing to meet someone just like you.
     
    #2 DesireEyes, Jan 1, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  3. Woodswoman

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    Hey Alwyn, I feel for you too. I can imagine it's so frustrating to be doing everything 'right' and not having success meeting someone special. I think you're right there though, on the verge. You have a good head on your shoulders, a heart, and your life sounds together. These 3 aspects alone are totally date-worthy! I would def recommend going through with the speed date experience. Maybe have a few topics ready to talk about - stuff you feel the most confidence about (work, a hobby, music, whatever). Also be ready to listen. If you don't match with anyone, it's ok! But you never know... At least you can get some experience meeting new people! I'm kinda envious actually. I'd love to try lesbian speed dating!
     
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  4. Alwyn

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    Thanks for the kind replies! I decided to go with the flow and will not cancel the speeddating night. I already have paid, so... One week to go, I will keep you updated.

    Does anyone have any advice or resources for dealing with internalised homophobia / feeling you're creepy if you have feelings for someone of the same-sex?
     
  5. zumbaqueen

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    @Alwyn I’m not that far out of the closet yet, there’s kind of a foot out and the rest is still hiding. The people I work with do not know, the students in my Zumba class do not know. And I too have concerns that they will think that I am after them. For whatever reason, I do feel that straight people initially all think you want to be with them when you tell them. For the people I have come out to that seem uncomfortable I try to explain it like this-just like your a woman and your not attracted to every man you meet, I’m attracted to women but I’m not attracted to every woman on the planet. It usually then goes to a slightly uncomfortable period where they wonder if I’m checking them out and when they see I’m still the same person I always was before they knew, they get comfortable being around me again. I’m not sure if you concern is because you do feel “creepy” because your attracted to a straight person or that you feel “creepy” because you think that they think your attracted to them. I think it makes a difference in how to handle things.
     
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  6. Really

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    Hey @Alwyn,

    It only becomes creepy if you do something creepy. You are not creepy for your thoughts. These are all new sensations to many of us and we didn’t have our teen years to stumble through them so now we have to deal with them as overthinking adults. Give yourself a break. Let the feelings come and go while your brain catches up with the new reality. It will. :]

    As for the speed dating, kudos! There’s a lesbian speed dating company here and on their website, almost all of the testimonials of from women who have met some really goood friends. Granted that’s not really the intention but I think at this stage, that would be a super outcome. Maybe try to think of it that way. Do you have a hobby or passion you’d love to share with someone? Maybe there’ll be someone there who has the same one or would love to learn it from you! I would go with just the tiniest of goals; to meet people who also enjoy...cross country skiing. Or whatever you’re into. Or has a hobby you’d like to try! :]

    Good luck!
     
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  7. Alwyn

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    Hm good question. I'm also not entirely sure but I think a bit of both.
    Perhaps it's because I actually had a crush on women in different situations. For example, I already has a crush on a former roommate, so my current roommate has a reason to distrust me if it would turn out she feels that way when I come out (for the record: I don't have any feelings for her, she is not my type). Of course I don't have to tell her about the former roommate (I probably won't) but I can't tell her she doesn't need to worry because I keep roommates and romantic feelings strictly separated.

    The same is true for a friend of mine. While actually she was my friend in high school but I think I was secretly in love with her for years (secret even from myself most of the time: I hadn't really acknowlegded I wasn't straight and liked girls, so I suppressed my feelings), we hadn't had any contact in years until recently we decided to rebuild the friendship. I actually came out to her the first time we met again, I didn't think it was a really big deal. I haven't told her I liked her though. And I have to admit, she is still very attractive and a wonderful person! I'm playing with the idea to tell her I liked her back then (I probably won't say I still kind of like her - that would be creepy?!). Just to get it out, take this step and practise with being open about feelings. It would be a victory, even when it will ruin the friendship.
    However, one time I touched casually her arm when making a joke and she just glanced sideways at me in a way which made me really scared she perhaps already suspects and isn't happy about it (this was after I came out to her). So I have kept silent and even lied to her when she asked if I liked anyone in particular at high school.

    Perhaps I should just say f*ck it (I'm sorry if cursing isn't allowed) and come out to my roommate and tell the friend I liked her in the past. And face the consequences, whether that means I become homeless (I'm subleasing the room) or have one friend less... Then at least I'm living my life openly and honestly.

    I'm tired of being scared. I'm tired of being always in my head, being touch-starved, being almost 30 without having a romantic/sexual experience. I just want to live and experience things. Moving forwards. But if this isn't possible for me, because no one ever has an interest in me, I'm not sure if it's worth it.

    @Really , regarding the speed date event: you are probably right to have small goals. At the moment I would be happier with a casual flirt than another friend though. I already have friends (though more are always welcome of course!) while I haven't experienced a positive date or someone flirting (back) with me. I think you have 3 of 4 minutes with each date, this is super short so I think I'll focus on passions and hobbies and whatever the date is coming up with. If she seems interesting or we have a common hobby I will probably like her on my chart and hope for a match. I think it's too short to actually flirt with someone and it would be a bit forced like you're some player? Afterwards the organisers will compare the charts and inform you if you have any matches and swap contact details.
     
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  8. OnTheHighway

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    Do a search on EC using the terms “Internalized Homophobia” and “Shame”.

    There has been much written about the topics that you may find very helpful.

    It’s great that you recognize the importance of dealing with them in order to progress on your journey. For my own experience, these emotions were the foundation for which I initially built the emotional wall to live behind while in the closet. Overcoming the shame and Internalized Homophobia (or should I say learning to manage them) have been a key part of my own self actualization.
     
    #8 OnTheHighway, Jan 4, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
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  9. Alwyn

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    I haven't been around for a while, but I have a few updates which I would like to share with you guys.

    First of all: the speeddate event didn't go that well. You had three minutes with each person, but writing down "yes or no" by each person and moving your stuff to the next table was all included in the three minutes, so you had even less time. And trying to remember their names for my chart and like 15 till 20 times telling the same story about my work and hobbies. Everything went too fast and was overwhelming, especially because I came directly out of work and was already tired.

    There were a few nice girls though and eventually I just wrote 'yes' to many people to just see what would happen. I had only 1 match afterwards, which was a bit disappointing. I couldn't even remember who she was (too many names to remember!) but went on a date with her, which went pretty dramatically. She was a bit older than I thought (33). At the beginning of our date she wanted to share everything about her ex and previous relationship. She talked about her ex-girlfriend too often and in a very negative way. She wanted to know every detail about the last person I dated and why it didn't work out, which made me uncomfortable. She also thought it was really weird that I never had been in a relationship.

    Well, I was a bit sad afterwards, but at least I didn't feel rejected because I also didn't really like her.
    The speeddate event is every 3 or 4 months so perhaps I will go another time now that I know what I can expect.

    Second, some good news! :slight_smile: I went to a lgbt party last week - in a different town and with different people than usually. The sphere was a bit desperate and flirty but more open than I'm used to at girls parties and I decided to go for it. I tried to talk to a girl who looked nice and we even happened to have common friends which was perhaps a bit awkward (the gay scene is really small). I tried to hit on her, but she was determined to set me up with a friend of her (afterwards I find out she already had a girlfriend). I decided that was also fine (sounds a bit cheap but I was really drunk). I talked a bit with this other girl and then we kissed and danced together for a while.

    So I finally have my first experience! With a normal person close to my age who was friendly/sweet. It felt like it could be better with someone you really like / are more attracted to, but I felt really good afterwards about finally having that first kiss with a girl and especially the touching felt good (I'm really touch-starved and also sexually frustrated to be honest).

    It gives me the feeling that not all hope is lost for my life and perhaps it can happen again. :slight_smile:
     
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  10. kayteaugh

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    Yay for first experiences! I'm so happy for you Alwyn and hahaha to the words in the parentheses. I wish nothing but the best for you!
     
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  11. Rana

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    How awesome! I think you will have plenty of experiences and meet someone lovely. You're still very young. Enjoy every minute of life, and be open to as many experiences as possible. It sounds like you're already putting yourself out there. I know good things will happen for you. ❤️
     
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