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General News At least 17 dead in Florida high school shooting

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by AwesomGaytheist, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. Niagara

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    Just to clarify on something, since I'm from the part of the U.S. closest to the Caribbean and know this for a fact, there will always be many guns in both your area and mine regardless of any laws the U.S. creates to remove guns. There are a lot, and I mean a LOT of illegal guns smuggled into south Florida and the Caribbean by the South American drug cartels. They make them from scratch in Colombia/Venezuela so they are entirely untraceable and immune to all types of regulation. It takes literally less than a week to find and purchase any type of illegal gun you want, custom made by the cartels, in south Florida. They can be/are then easily shipped to Caribbean countries where they are used in the crimes you mentioned. So no, anti-gun regulations will not help this part of the world, it will just give the cartels more business.
     
  2. KyleD

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    All of the guns in Jamaica come in directly from Miami, Florida. With the easy accessibility to guns in Florida it's not hard to smuggle them in to my country especially since U.S officials don't care what leaves their ports. Not too long ago U.S officials confiscated 117 guns at Miami airport heading to Montego Bay in Jamaica. Jamaica doesn't make guns so they come in directly from your country and 80% of the murders carried out in my country are carried out using these same guns made and produced in the United States of America.
     
    #22 KyleD, Feb 15, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  3. AlexJames

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    Just gonna add this, cause my mom was ranting about it in the car in line for Taco Bell cause she wanted their new nacho fries...a lot of people are against gun control simply because since it won't fix the problem, they see no point. My mom literally said that "drugs are illegal, but you can buy them in highschool" and "you can't legislate common sense" in defense of keeping the status quo. And stated more than once that even if you ban them "there's a black market for them". But here's my point against that, mainly cause i know better than to try to argue with her...where do you think people get the guns on the black market?! At least one way is stealing them, like pulling heists at a gun shop. I see them in the news sometimes and i always figure that's one way that guns get in people's hands illegally. Protect the gun shops, shut a few down, pull guns like the AR-15 off the market cause normal citizens don't need them, etc.

    But like i said on twitter i really do think that gun control will be left up to the next generation to fix gun control. People like me who grew up doing lockdown drills as little kids, who experienced bomb and shooting threats, and god forbid actually went through school shootings or knew someone who did. Cause the people in the govt today don't care, its not their problem they never had to deal with it personally. But the new generation, the kids in school now and those in their early/mid maybe late 20's have. Its been going on since Columbine and that was like in the late 1990's wasn't it.
     
  4. GlassWalls

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    Dude, that guy literally just legally bought an automatic rifle. If there were better gun laws, in this case, the shooting would not have happened.
     
  5. BlueNeon

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    I find it amazing how easy it is to buy a gun in my state. I cannot legally buy cigarettes or beer. Someone attempting to sell me those if I was looking to buy them could get in a lot of trouble. I've been told by a store that I couldn't buy the paint thinner that my dad asked me to pick up for a project because they wouldn't sell it to someone under 18. But if I want to buy a rifle, all I need is a handful of cash and a willing seller. Sure, I can't buy from a registered dealer, but people can sell me long guns and ammunition at a show or as a private sale with no issues at all.

    What kind of sense does that make? I don't hunt for survival, I don't have to protect livestock from predators, and I've never touched a firearm in my life. Why, then, is it OK for me to go down to a show or a private sale and buy all the long guns and ammo I want? Why is our society more worried about me possibly sneaking a cigarette into the girl's bathroom at school than the idea of me owning weapons that I have no real idea how to handle safely?

    I get that guns are fun to shoot. I understand that there are some people who have a legitimate need to own a firearm. I'll even concede that simply banning guns won't prevent every shooting. But, as long as guns are so easy to acquire, we're going to have a problem with gun violence.
     
  6. AwesomGaytheist

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    I seriously hope that the prosecution will let Cruz plead guilty and take his 17 life sentences so that these families don’t have to endure a trial. If this goes to trial, he’ll more than likely have no choice to mount an insanity defense which would turn his trial into a circus.
     
  7. GlassWalls

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    Exactly! And other countries that have stricter gun laws don't have as many massacres. And, it's one thing to be able to easily buy a hunting rifle, and another thing to easily be able to buy an automatic weapon. I mean, what practical use does an automatic weapon even have? Unless you want to quickly shoot down an entire flock of birds? Doesn't sound like something anyone needs. They can compromise and make it so some guns are still available but they need to crack down on the more dangerous types that are being used in these mass shootings.
     
  8. GlassWalls

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    Is this the first case where the gun man didn't commit suicide? In all of the other school shootings that I can think of, all of the gun man have died right after them. Also, does Florida have the death penalty? I know that what this person did was beyond terrible but I still don't believe in the death penalty. I think instead they should get him psychiatric help. Also, the fact that he is alive is an opportunity for research psychologists to interview him and try to understand what leads someone to commit such a horrible crime. In so many cases of massacres, the perpetrator kills themselves or dies, and so the motivations are always left as something of a mystery.
     
  9. AwesomGaytheist

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    James Holmes, the Aurora, Colorado shooter, was arrested, tried, and sentenced to 3,000+ years in prison. Florida does have capital punishment (More on it here) and the sentence is determined by a jury. If even one juror votes against death, then the person is sentenced to life. Florida abolished parole in 1986, so life means life. Even if he had received a determinate (or specific number of years) sentence, Florida law says you have to serve 85% of your sentence before you can be released.
     
  10. EnderGiven

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    You do realize a nuclear bomb can not push it's own little red button? And if we can't trust the teacher to be armed, than why do we trust them enough to teach our children? I agree there should be background checks, but can you think of a way to stop a criminal with a gun? This is not a certain bashing, I'm merely asking a question, which I sincerely want to know .
     
    #30 EnderGiven, Feb 17, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  11. idsm

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    Imagine a room full of people. The perpetrator stands in the middle and pulls a gun. Several others also take out guns to "protect themselves". Can you see what will happen? Ordinary people are not commandos; it takes years of strict training for someone to be able to keep calm, analyze the scene, recognize which one among the 10 people around them holding a gun is the actual threat, aim and take them down. Teachers are not soldiers. And they shouldn't be.
     
  12. KyleD

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    If teachers are to be armed then they would have to lock their gun away in a safe place to prevent students getting access to it. The gunman shot 24 people in 6 minutes so that is not enough for anyone to react especially in a panicked situation. Teachers go into the profession to educate the next generation and not to prepare for war. Is that the atmosphere that you want children to grow up in? Imagine how much more catastrophic the situation would be if everyone had a gun and everyone started firing wildly at each other.

    There is no reason why an 18 year old fresh from high school should be able to legally purchase a gun. The best way to prevent a criminal with a gun is to prevent that criminal from obtaining a gun in the first place. Nothing is wrong with responsible, mature, trained and law abiding people having guns but with such free for all access to guns it is bound to end up in the wrong hands.
     
    #32 KyleD, Feb 17, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  13. BlueNeon

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    This statement brings up another good point about how it's too easy to get a gun. I've already discussed how stupidly easy it is for me to get a hold of a long gun of any kind in my state, even though I can't buy many other things. But this statement, especially the part about training, got me thinking about how many things we require you to be licensed for. If I want to drive a car, I have to prove that I can handle it in a responsible way, and prove that I can financially handle any incidents through insurance. If I can't do this, I don't get to drive. If I want to become a hairstylist, I have to complete a certain amount of training and become certified. If I want an assault rifle, all I need is a handful of cash and someone who is willing to sell. If they are a private seller, I don't even have to get a background check.

    That's right, in this state, we're more worried about an unqualified person giving someone a bad haircut than we are worried about an unqualified person getting guns.
     
  14. EnderGiven

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    By creating more gun restrictions, right? By using laws to prevent criminals from getting access? What makes a criminal a criminal? They break the law. So your telling me that by keeping the guns from the law abiding citizens, the criminals ( who don't follow laws) will be kept from shooting people? The gun from the teacher would be locked somewhere, for sure, but the key would be on the teachers person, perhaps on a lanyard, to keep students from getting access. I do not believe 18 year olds should possess find guns, no, and believe it should be raised to 21. The schools could have police officers at the entrances, if you don't trust teachers. And a war cannot consist of a single man against a group of people. What would you rather have, a confidence in your safety because you know a trustworthy someone is guarding you, or no precautions because your afraid they might backfire?
     
  15. Flynn S

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    I'd rather have the safety in knowing neither has the means to kill me. But, that isn't a realistic expectation, is it?
    I think the point KyleD was making is that even if teachers were armed and they were trusted and could use a gun(assuming no accidents happened with those guns, which, again, is an unrealistic expectation) that it simply wouldn't be enough time to stop another shooter killing people before that teacher could unlock and use their gun.

    I certainly don't think stricter gun laws are the end-all-be-all solution, but they are a step in the right direction. I do not, however, think arming more people would cause the least bit of improvement.

    That's very true. I think it's absurd that an eighteen-year-old is not legally allowed to drink but can legally purchase a gun. Why is it that he is not trusted with alcohol, but is trusted with a deadly weapon?
     
  16. idsm

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    Criminals are criminals. Nothing will completely stop them, ever. Even the death penalty has completely failed as a deterrent.

    Gun control, though, can stop people with psychological problems, drunk or high people with no control of their actions, stupid people with impulsive behavior. Most of those who perform blind and massive shootings turn out to be just unstable people, not registered mafia.
     
  17. Flynn S

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    I think part of the problem, also, is that the government, and perhaps most of society in general, are all too focused on outside terrorist threats and ignore domestic terrorism.
     
  18. KyleD

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    YES!!!! MORE GUN RESTRICTIONS!!! 1,600 firearms are stolen everyday in the United States and that gun might end up being used to commit a murder in Chicago or flow across the border to be used by gangs in Mexico. Now having teachers carrying guns would just increase the possibility of a deranged student having access and create the very situation you are trying to prevent.

    OWNING A GUN IS A PRIVELEGE AND NOT A RIGHT!!! There are gun owners who leave their guns in their cars for criminals to break in and steal it from them. There was this case of this American woman who shot her baby accidentally from the gun in her purse. Just because you are 18 or 79 doesn't give you a right to flaunt your gun in public. Be responsible for God's sake because people are dying because of your irresponsibility!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    #38 KyleD, Feb 17, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  19. Niagara

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    Actually... it is definitely a right here and always has been. The way the Constitution was written, the founding fathers put the original amendments in order of what they saw as most to least important. Out of the original 10, the one about guns is #2, meaning they attached a very large importance to it as a right, where only freedom of speech and religion (first amendment) were considered more important. It literally has the words "right of the people" in it.

    2ndAmendment.jpg
     
  20. KyleD

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    Niagara, I'm already aware of that since History was my major at University.
     
    #40 KyleD, Feb 17, 2018
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