Hello everyone. I'll try to keep this as simple as possible so as not to confuse myself or you the readers. I've been troubled about my love life for a long time now. I considered myself straight until 2012. I told myself I had too many crushes on men back then to be anything else. I felt nervous around some guys and tried to flirt, I had my hormones going wild on me and overwhelming me as every teen. But when it came to sex or thoughts of sex with men, I was pretty much terrified. The whole coitus situation just looked violent from the porn exposure I've had and the way boys talked about their adventures trying to prove their hyper-masculine macho status was not helping at all. I couldn't seem to be able to just do it as many of my peers used to, around the age of 14-17. But what happened during that time in 2012? The realization hit me that I must be bisexual because I just didn't mind it if a certain ambiguous gendered beautiful being I once met in a supermarket was in fact a woman. I would still sleep with her. It was an eye-opening experience and somewhat shocking too. All the years I have been secretly fantasizing about imaginary women started making sense. At the same time I had a huge crush on a female-math teacher. I would stare at her and get lost on how beautiful she looked like. My hands were shaking when she was close to me, something I had never experienced with the presence or thought of any male person, no matter how attractive or cool he was. But even then I considered myself bi-curious and mostly straight. Years passed, I fell in love or at least thought I fell in love with an older man on the other side of the world who I never met. I don't know what would happen if we could actually meet or if even there was a change of a sexual encounter at all. If I were to sum up my long-lasting crushes on guys who could potentially turned into lovers, they all seem to have certain traits in common: I don't know them on a day to day basis and they live on the other side of the planet. As for crushes in real life on men, I've dated quite a few, and had sex with only one. I had a very difficult time to put myself through through the vulnerable place of being the receiver part of the equation, something I've dreaded for so long and is the only viable option in a standard heterosexual relationship. Being with a man just felt weird. Not because I found anything icky about his body, but it just felt super weird. My body responded mechanically and I even had fun, but emotionally I felt incomplete. When he hugged me once I thought "So I'll never be with a woman if we stay together". I felt really sad with that thought. I even caught myself imagining him as a woman. The worst part is, I enjoyed things a lot more with that image in my head. Long story short, we broke up, but not because of my orientation, the relationship didn't go well, we argued about everything, we both acted in insecure ways. I'm glad it's over. But what about my attraction to women? This is a little harder to pinpoint because of a chronic habit of self-censorship. It's hard for me to recognize what it is that I truly want sometimes. One thing I know for certain is that I feel super relieved when I don't have to say yes to guys who want to date or -gods forbid- want to have anything to do with my naked body. I don't have any same-sex experience yet to know how I truly feel about it but my mind and body seem very happy with this prospect. Wow this is loong...Sorry for that! Hope you found it interesting or could relate to it a bit. I would appreciate your opinion.
I think this is a super common experience for lesbians! I think the stereotype is that lesbians have to be 100% attracted to women and never ever even consider sleeping with or dating men. Many lesbians can fall in love with men (in my opinion) and even enjoy sex and respond well to it mechanically. The important piece, though, the part that makes them lesbian (from my conversations with lesbians and my own experience) is that feeling of incompleteness. I've had an almost identical sexual history as you (falling for men I've never talked to irl or hardly know, enjoying sex with men but feeling weirded out by it, terrified by it, and feeling incomplete from it). I think almost all lesbians who've slept with men feel that way. I think that if men make you feel uncomfortable and scared, even if they also make you feel good things, you can choose to just not date men anymore and try out women for real, especially since you already like the idea of them and identify as a lesbian. Just because you love men and don't hate being with or sleeping with them doesn't mean you can't be–and are not–a lesbian. In my opinion at least. If it makes you feel better, I self-censor absolutely every thought I have which means that I can never tell if my feelings are manufactured or natural, so I really relate to how difficult it is to figure out what your feelings for men and women are when you are kind of repelled by men but also still love them but also want to love women and have loved women but still aren't sure if you're really *making* yourself like them or not. Hope this helped a bit!
This sums up my thoughts perfectly. Thank you for your input. I haven't talked to any lesbians irl, but the stories I've read are very close to what I've experienced. Then you have the lesbians that proclaim that a lesbian by definition is never attracted by the idea of being with a man and that being even slightly agreeable to it puts someone into the bisexual category. I guess instead of writing the story of my sexual life I should have focused more on the crux of my problem, which is my chronic self-censorship, and a terrible relationship with my father who was verbally and physically abusive to me but not in a sexual manner. Perhaps I should make a different thread for that. The good thing about me is that despite my difficulty facing and exposing my real feelings, I'm very patient and persistent when it comes to revealing the truth.
Hi Silveroot, not to hijack this thread or anything, but I had the thought that studying math in Greece is something like studying Zen in Japan... or cheese in France! I hope you got a good grade despite your shaking hands. (I still remember one of my early math teachers, Demeitra Hassos.) And just to contribute something on topic, I admire your open-mindedness (and Cierra's too) to yourself and am always impressed here on EC how new members jump right in and give (good!) advice right away. I hope you (both of you!) have a happy New Year and have some good dates. With whoever.
I got a grade high enough to pass the exams of the time, but I never because a genius. I think the teacher knew how I was feeling, because she often had to snap me out of my daydreaming and near the end of the year she was anxious and avoided me. Happy New Year to you too.
Hi Silveroot. I’m with Cierra on this one. I think It is completely possible to have feelings and attractions to men even if you feel that you are in fact lesbian. Try to remember that from the moment you’re born hetro relationships are forced down our throats, they’re everywhere from people you see in real life to fairytales to movies etc... and we are pre-programmed to follow that route. It can get very confusing if you just don’t feel like that’s the right path for you as you need untangle all those heteronormative knots that have unconsciously been hammered into your brain. It can cause a whirlwind of confusion and not to mention the anxiety, sadness and also sometimes depression that can come with it. Speaking from experience I’ve had relationships with men (I’m female btw) the longest being just shy of 7 years and yet I always just thought that there was something wrong with me as I never seemed to love them like my friends loved their partners. It was more of a brotherly type love and tbh I just thought that something was wrong with me, like that part was just broken. I never understood the constant disconnect or the unfullfillment that was always lurking in the background. I always knew that I had attractions to women, but I would push them aside and tell myself I was weird or it was just a little friend crush or something and everyone has them...but I was wrong in that department. That was my little way of self denial Like you I also self censor and so ask myself frequently, am I making this up? Do I really feel like this about women? Etc... and the thing that always helps me is picturing my future. When I was in my last relationship with a man, I used to picture us getting married, having kids, all the usual stuff and it used to make me feel so sad but most of all disappointed. That this was it and I just had to go along with it as it’s what people do. But when I finally admitted to myself, the feelings that I had for women and thought about the same imaginary future with a women, I felt happy and light and like it was just like ‘yeah now that makes sense’. That helps me a lot whenever have my fleeting doubts that do crop up every now and then Another’s example for you, I was at the gym this morning and while on the running machine I found myself checking out both men and women. The man one surprised me and so i thought ‘would i actually want to go on a date with him’ and the answer was a very strong no even tho I found him appealing to look at. I thought the same about the attractive women I saw and the answer was a very strong yes lol. Sorry for my rambling, maybe this helps or maybe it doesn’t but just know that you’re not the only one who can sometimes feel attractions to men, I suppose the difference would be whether or not you would like to act on them?
I feel like this makes so much sense. I've been struggling with feeling like I only like girls while also finding certain guys attractive. While, when I consider it, I don't want to have sex with men, it's still unnerving. I mean, I'm a virgin, and I feel like I can't *really* know for sure until I've had sex, but this makes me feel better.
I really agree with @SquareBiz here. People really don't give enough credit to how hard it is to untangle those heteronormative thoughts (like how a lesbian can be in an almost 7 year long relationship with a man and still not realize she's gay!). That's such a common experience, too, but I feel like most lesbians feel super alone feeling that way until they realize they're not. I do the same thing as you do (picturing futures together) and get the same feelings. I had a very vivid and terrifying nightmare of being forced to get married to a man (I didn't know who he was and couldn't see him) but it was creepy and awful. The thought of marrying a man seems trapping and depressing, but being with a woman seems much more freeing and right. But I still get stressed out by men and want them to find me attractive (even if I am not at all attracted to them), which I'm learning is just patriarchy shoving its fist down my throat, not heterosexuality. @Silveroot I'm so glad I helped a bit!! I think the real key is realizing that lesbians are not always (and maybe not usually) man-hating people. I think most lesbians (like all women) have really complicated relationships with men. My roommate and I also agree in women who may be more bisexual than lesbian *choosing* to be lesbian by only dating women specifically because dealing with men is too confusing or traumatizing. Sometimes it's just too much to unpack that shit, and that's okay.
Hey inktopus. Glad that made you feel a bit better. Like I said, you can definitely find men attractive, you’re human and you have eyes but whether or not you’re actually attracted to them is a whole different thing. Also, personally I don’t think you prove sexuality by who you sleep with. I mean, anyone can have sex with anyone and it doesn’t necessarily mean anything. I think that sexuality (and this is just my opinion, others may disagree) is about desires, wants, feelings and fantasies. Which sex makes you feel happy? who do you see yourself with? Who do you want to be with? Emotionally and physically? And don’t forget that sexuality is fluid and shifts and changes all the bloody time. There may be a guy, at some point, who you are actually attracted to and that’s cool. At the end of the day, I think you should just go with how you feel now, right now. Don’t worry about tomorrow or what might happen in the future. It’s really not worth it
Hey @Cierra. Yep it’s mad that it took me so long to figure it out and my younger self is angry with me about that. I definitely felt alone with this and like I was going crazy until I joined EC and found that others had experienced similar things. Also since my realisation I’ve had plenty of chats with friends and where I thought a lot of people had the same thoughts and feelings as me, it turns out I was massively wrong. I’ve not had one of my ‘straight’ friends say ‘yep, I know what you’re talking about and think the same things about women’. Not one lol. God that does sound like a nightmare!! And I totally agree, the thought of marrying a man definitely feels trapping and just so so wrong. I think that’s normal that you would still want a man to find you attractive. It could well be patriarchy waving to you there or it could simply be just a nice ego stroke. I mean everyone wants to feel attractive don’t they. I was out for dinner with my friend the other week and there was a group of drunk guys next to us. They started talking to us and messing around and I completely flirted around with them back even though I had absolutely no interest in them. It was interesting as my friend, who’s straight, went all shy and quiet whereas I was gassing away like no ones business. What I pointed out to her afterwards was that I didn’t care when speaking to them, it didn’t mean anything to me. But I still enjoyed the attention. Now if it was a pretty woman in front of me I would have shut down quicker than anything and probably try to crawl inside myself lol. I find that interesting what you say about maybe most women being bisexual but choosing a lesbian label instead. I’ve considered if I’m bisexual, what with my past history with men, but that label just doesn’t feel right to me. It doesn’t mean I’m not, I dunno, but it doesn’t feel right, gay or lesbian does and so I choose that with a preference over gay as I find lesbian a little definitive. Like you said, sometimes it’s just too much to deal with that shit and that’s ok too. Totally with you on this one.
Wow thank you everyone for your immensely supportive replies! I have no one to talk about all this, so this helps a lot. @SquareBiz I can relate to your thought and emotional processes a great deal, yet I have pictured myself marrying a man and being happy with the thought. I don't know if that was a sign of me being somewhat into men or a sign of being desperate for soul connection lol. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences. @Cierra Yes this world just assumes if you're not into heterosexual relationships that there's something wrong with you. You see I have something of a warrior inside of me though. I cannot quit the battle unless I'm either incapable of doing so or I win. So I'm willing to figure it all out even if it's immensely terrifying. Thank you for being so honest and open with us.
I really understand that feeling of not being able to give up the fight unless you can't or unless you win, but if you feel like fighting is getting you nowhere, it can at least help to understand that. Even though it can feel like a never ending fight, I think that your persistence will pay off eventually, and years from now when you're with someone you love or have just gotten to a place where you have yourself figured out, you'll look back and wonder how you didn't see it earlier. Thank YOU for coming here! I'm glad that we can help you figure yourself out.
