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LGBT News Teacher suspended for misgendering pupil

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by HerRainbow, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. HerRainbow

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    I read this yesterday about a teacher working in an Oxford school (supposed to be prestigious) who misgendered a trans boy.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pended-praising-pupil-using-wrong-gender.html

    Do you think it was a mistake, ignorance or done intentionally? And do you think he deserved to be suspended?

    My thoughts on this is that teachers have many responsibilities and one of them is to respect and protect the interests of those they are teaching. So whatever beliefs they have have shouldn't be brought to the classroom. He simply shouldn't have taken it upon himself to treat the student like that because he was putting him at risk of bullying by singling him out.
     
    #1 HerRainbow, Nov 13, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  2. shadowalex

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    I would be careful with the daily mail because they are known for being transphobic and tend to misrepresent stories about trans people.
     
  3. HerRainbow

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    I hear what you're saying but the main focus was on the teacher's actions.
     
  4. DoriaN

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    Many knew ridiculous situations like these would come up if certain laws got passed and while there can be some good there is also bad.

    I feel bad for the teacher, and I wish I knew who this 'pupil' was. Absolutely disgusting, not the first time I've seen an abuse of the system and people like this.
     
  5. mnguy

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    I wish I could find more sources for this situation since if it is true and that newsworthy other sources should have reported on it too. All I could find seemed to be the same article re-posted on various questionable web sites. Would be nice to see articles from various reporters and maybe there are that I didn't find in my brief search. It makes me wonder if there is more to the story that isn't being reported by this biased site. From what information was given in the article I don't think the teacher should be fired, but he should use the chosen pronoun for the student. If the student looks like a boy it shouldn't be hard to get that right. In this particular case he could have said, "well done, kids" and been inclusive of boys and girls. Here are a few quotes that stuck out to me.

    "...made to use the pronouns ‘he’ or ‘him’ and that to force him to do so was a breach of his human rights." I think that's bs. It's basic courtesy to call people the name they want. What if he didn't like boys being called Kelley or Fran? Why get hung up on what this kid was born as? What if this kid doesn't have XX chromosomes or has ambiguous genitalia? How did the teacher find out the kid is trans? What if this kid was at a new school and was always known as a boy? The teacher has the right to keep thinking what he wants about gender identity, but at work he follows the policies. Perhaps he should work for a private church school that aligns with his opinions.

    "...an increasing trend of Christians being marginalised in the public square, and unpopular beliefs silenced." To be accurate, it's not all christians who hold such unsupported beliefs. Those who reject the studies and research on this subject can keep believing the old, false information and talk about it in their personal lives, but not at a school where it's against their policies. Trans people have been marginalized and worse forever so now that we understand gender identity better and won't tolerate the prejudice, guys like this claim to be victims. They're only victims of their own stubbornness by not looking at the science and understand that gender isn't as simple as we once thought and others of faith understand this so it's not incompatible with faith.

    "I do not believe it is unreasonable to call someone a girl if they were born a girl." It's unreasonable if the person identifies as a boy and again, how does he know the state of his genitalia and chromosomes?

    "...silenced or punished if they refuse to fall in line with the current transgender fad." This right here is the piss poor attitude of these folks. It's not a fad and it's insulting to call it that. They do that to try to denigrate this legitimate issue. Trans people have been around forever and they're finally able to have a better shot at living an authentic life. Science understands gender identity better now. People can reach their full potential when they can be authentic and not harassed for part of who they are.

    "It seems to me this is a mad world when someone is disciplined for stating a biological fact." Again, stubborn attitude and physiology and chromosomes don't determine gender identity. It doesn't impact me in any way what gender another person identifies as. Why does that bother some people soooo much?? Why fight the gender someone else identifies as? Just accept we're not all the same and hope your fellow person is happy. How is that hurting anyone?
     
  6. HerRainbow

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    I agree with you on all points. But mostly the one above. In a school setting you have to kind of be role models for children so you need to be the change that you want to see in them. If you hold and use such views in particularly a mainstream school then you will encourage bullying and for children to exclude others for being 'different'. So he needs to go somewhere that support his ideology.

    I also don't think it was said by accident because clearly he didn't apologise. He stood by what he had said. The most worrying thing is that there's the very real possibility that he could say similar things in future if he had other kids in his class on the LGBT spectrum.
     
    #6 HerRainbow, Nov 15, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  7. AbsoluteNerd

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    I have not yet read the article or even looked at the link, so here are preliminary thoughts:
    I do not know if this was done intentionally or not, nor wether this has happened before. Context is necessary to determine wether suspension was an appropriate action.
     
  8. AbsoluteNerd

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    BBC on the story:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-41966554

    So, based on the information from the BBC, I believe a warning is more appropriate than an entire disciplinary hearing. While the daily mail blew it out of proportion, the university still overreacted, in my opinion.
     
  9. PlantSoul

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    Oh for Fuck's sake! I doubt honestly that the teacher did this intentionally. Teachers have already have about a billion things to worry about. This teacher probably forgot among all of those other countless things. They're already probably use to referring to the former pronouns that the student used. What's next? Are parents going to be charged if they forget and let slip their child's birth name and former pronouns? Are children with trans parents going to get in trouble if they forget to call dad "mom" and vice versa? Sure being misgendered isn't pleasant but, it certainly isn't going to kill you. And if it was done intentionally, it's life that some people won't agree with you. You can't let these things have control over your life.

    (Youtuber, Blair White, made an excellent video on this topic, if anyone is interested.)
     
  10. fadedstar

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    The guy is erm...... yeah. I know it's kind of a meme to say that homophobic people are really gay and hiding it, but I think he actually is tbh. It's a bit sad. I suppose he might not be gay, but do YOU think he's straight in all honesty? Something seems a bit off about this to me.. Maybe I'm just projecting...

     
    #10 fadedstar, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2017
  11. HerRainbow

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    This leaves me wondering what his teaching was like :joy: because he seems to have had his fair share of air time since being suspended.

    Anyways everything is pointing to something being off...his mannerisms, his clothes, the way he talks, even how he tries to be politically correct, he's not doing himself any favours.
     
  12. Lin1

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    I am pretty sure there was evidence that his refusal to use the correct pronouns was due to the fact that transexuality doesn't align wit his religious beliefs. I recal reading somewhere that it wasn't the first instance and that the school had already pulled him up on it and asked him to use the correct pronouns.
     
  13. DoriaN

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    It seems to me that there is some failing on both parts, but to address the gentleman in question, I think within a lot of self espoused Christians there is a lack of understanding on what being transgender is and they (often innocently/naively) lump all together in the same basket. The lady in the video points out "male and female", but if a transperson is transitioning from a male to a female or from a female to a male they remain within the paradigm.

    They also mention it being an ideology, which again I would agree for many trans individuals it is an ideology, though they mention biology but are ignorant to the biological factors present within some trans individuals.

    Again, I just feel there is ignorance or naivety here for multiple parties and in the end it's regrettable. The good news from this though is that it can force a person to consider these factors of life more carefully, so this blow to his career could be a blessing in disguise as he learns and forms his feelings revolving it better, or at worst it may entrench currently held feelings and beliefs.

    At the end of the day we're all broken and hurting individuals trying to cope and come to understanding with life and truth, and as some pointed out previously this young man as a teacher may be at a crux in his life regarding these things. Honestly want the best for both parties and hope that people take the time to listen and reason with one another rather than trying to be self righteous over too hard on the whole thing.
     
  14. MiKyle

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    I struggle very much to understand the Christian legal representative's use of the word "compassion". I think it is very black and white to say that something is compassionate for all children. We are individuals, and yes, some children may be confused about their gender but most likely, giving them freedom to be who they are rather than forcing them to be something you expect them to be is clearly the more compassionate option? You can still instil Christian values of kindness, family and truth while letting a child wear a dress or nail polish instead of some dungarees. I find the way these people speak in the video to be quite convoluted and just off putting because what they say doesn't really MEAN anything when you get down to it. The woman in this video gets so impassioned so quickly, and it really just sounds like spiel rather than genuine engagement in the topic.

    I do see how there is also some of this coming from the presenters as well though, although they're professionals so keep their cool a little better haha. I just dislike how these kinds of conversations go in most media in general to be honest. Everyone coming in with an agenda. Great point made above about all the air time this suspended teacher is getting while he's off.
     
  15. MiKyle

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    I really don't think a child is wrong for being upset about being misgendered. People are allowed to get hurt feelings over things - everyone has different sensitivities. If someone stepped on my toe, and I said "ow" and they told me to man up and got offended I'd responded to the pain they'd caused me rather than just saying sorry, well quite frankly they're obviously in the wrong. They made a mistake, and I got hurt as a result, and I'm not bad for expressing that pain on reflex.

    It's very unfair to judge people for saying "ow" when they've been hurt - including emotionally. I do understand that some people might seem like they're over reacting and that is unfortunate but hey, maybe they just had a bad day? Who can say, really? Or, maybe... their metaphorical toe had already been stood on many times that day, was already incredibly tender, so it hurt extra bad when it got stood on again. I think there's a far more compassionate way to respond to people displaying pain than telling them to "man/women up".
     
  16. jaska

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    Whether it was intentional or not, one incident like this should never be enough to get someone fired. It's ridiculous
     
  17. Chiroptera

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    Hey everyone,

    It is ok to disagree/agree with other users, but respect is a MUST here in Empty Closets, not an option.

    Disrespect towards other user/group of users will not be tolerated. Keep in mind that this is a support forum first and foremost. Keep this discussion civil.

    Thanks
     
  18. mnguy

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    I thought he had other incidents previous to this one? I haven't read that he has been fired. The following article is confusing whether he has quit or not. In one paragraph it says he has left, but later it says the school hasn't received his resignation. It does say that he is suing the school.

    I'm sure plenty of anti-LGBT religious schools would happily hire him. Then he can demean the LGBT kids who sadly get stuck at such schools. This is sad since kids in unsupportive environments commit suicide more often. Some people say that kids should just conform to a predetermined norm and there would be no problems. Yes, we should all conform and be the same, like obedient robots (sarcasm).

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-42312342
     
  19. Jackie Ray

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    @mnguy from what I have heard the suicide rates among trans folk are about the same with or without acceptance, with or without transition. I think there is so much chemically going on in the brain that we dont yet understand. I think that the real hope for at risk trans folk is in scientific research rather than making A-holes accept them, we cant solve the A-hole problem they will always be around. We can do some hardcore science though.
     
  20. BradThePug

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    I'm not sure where you are getting this information from. Here is a link to a source that talks about how transgender people that are from unaccepting families, have faced sexual assault, or have been harassed have a higher suicide rate.

    This all being said, some sensitivity training should have been offered. If he refused that, then I agree with him being fired. Teachers have a responsibility To all students. This includes students that they my not agree or understand their choice to transition.