1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

My thoughts today..

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by HelpLOL, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. HelpLOL

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Cali
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    So for those that didn't read my other threads my wife told me the other week she thinks she's gay. That's the back story. Things since then have been... odd I guess. Good and bad odd. We had a really really honest conversation, put everything out on there and we've been .... closer since? she's not hiding anything about herself from me anymore and I feel that. When she told me she might be gay she had tears in her eyes and it just shook me.. We've been distant for a little while now... Probably both of our faults.. or maybe it happen because of her orientation.. hard to know. But seeing her hurting so bad I just couldn't allow it... I gave her a hug and said we could figure it out. So that was a week ago.. I know not that long but it sure feels longer... heh. I guess that's the real backstory, what's on my mind at the moment is worry. We really turned over a new leaf with the open honesty thing.. that distance is almost completely gone.. and what am I worried about? Well.. I can see that we're reconnecting on some level and I love it, but I'm worried my wife is feeling the same and it's going to cause her to want to bottle herself up again... I don't want to lose her completely but I also don't want to see those tears again caused by her not being her. Sigh, just my thoughts this morning.

    Side note, I know it might be odd to have a random straight guy on these forums. If it's a prob let me know. And thanks for letting me vent.
    Peace
     
    Hushhh likes this.
  2. GlassWalls

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2017
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    FrozenHell
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Some people
    There are other straight people on this forum. Straight people are definitely welcome! I think it's good for the LGBTQ+ community to not be isolated. Being able to be honest about yourself is an enormous relief but it's also sort of disorienting. Suddenly something you've been hiding for so long and obsessing over is out in the open. It feels like a release, and sometimes it's weird to let go of those negative feelings, it gives you this sort of blank happiness. Sorry, weird descriptions. Anyway, she's probably just still trying to adjust to everything and she might feel a little guilty and worried about you. If she married you she probably thinks of you as like a best friend she can really trust. She probably doesn't want to feel like she's hurting you but at the same time she wants to find herself.
     
  3. HelpLOL

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Cali
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    I know she feels guilty and worries about me she's told me as much... and part of me wishes I could say "don't worry about me i'll be great!", "let's separate so you can live your life and yah of course i'll watch the kids so you can have time to date..." But the truth is I'm not at that point .. maybe in the future but right now I haven't given up on us finding an in between that works for everyone.
    I don't think she's had that "out in the open" moment. She's been honest with me and our therapist, but that's it. I just want her to feel comfortable in her skin and wants and I hope to god *i'm an atheist but sometimes this is the best phrase* I hope to God I'm still there someplace. When the dust settles a bit.
     
  4. Mabel

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    204
    Location:
    New England
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Hey! I’ve been thinking about you and have been super busy. As soon as I get a little time I’ll share some more of my thoughts about this. Peace!
     
  5. HelpLOL

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Cali
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    @Mabel Hey thanks, I'm always up for hearing thoughts about stuff. I would write more right now but I'm late for marriage therapy .. heh Yep we get to drop the whole open marriage thing on her today. I'm wondering if we can get her to bat an eye or if she's going to take everything in stride. Should be fun. heh
     
  6. HelpLOL

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Cali
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    Well, she really didn't react much. I guess being a marriage therapist around the san francisco area you see a lot. lol But it was still a little funny heh
     
  7. Mabel

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    204
    Location:
    New England
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Ok my thoughts are this....is she saying for sure she is gay? Or is bi a possibility? Because this...you are saying you want to keep an intimate relationship with her with an open marriage. If she feels she is gay, this most likely won’t be possible. You can stay close, but intimacy? And how sustainable would it be for you? Not having intimacy?

    I can tell you this. I thought that I was bi, I held that belief for a few years before I met someone. My attraction to women (that was always there in hindsight) came to the surface in my early thirties. That’s why I thought I was bi. It wasn’t until my experience with a woman that I noticed how really uncomfortable sex with men had been, all my life. I was really taken by surprise at how easy and and enjoyable intimacy could be in general. I tried to rationalize it away as new love etc. The thing was that all the negative feelings I had had about sex (which I always attributed to my catholic upbringing, shame, not meant to be enjoyed etc.) were really because I was having sex with the wrong gender. Once I felt what it could be all those negative feelings kept getting stronger, to the point where I was becoming extremely uncomfortable having sex with my husband. He noticed it too, it was not a fun realization for either of us. It got to the point where I couldn’t be with him at all.

    I just tell you this because as much as I would like to maintain an intimate relationship with my husband, I can’t. Because I am gay. So if you want to have that with your wife, these things need to be teased out. How comfortable is she maintaining an intimate relationship with you. Is sex hard for her? How cool with you are being with her if it is? I do know people who are indeed bi and they very much enjoy sex with both genders. It’s just not what she seems to be telling you, she is using the term gay. The reality of that is that you guys could have two very different outcomes. It sounds like she is really struggling and she may not be able to put a label on it at this point. I do know that I tried really hard to cover how uncomfortable I was getting with sex with my husband because I was very afraid to hurt him. When he started noticing there was nothing I could do. It can be very disorienting this late in life, for everyone.

    The good news is that you sound supportive and that she sounds like she wants to be respectful of what you guys have. From experience I think you guys will benefit from some hard core honesty and really frank and real discussions. It’s hard to go into a poly arrangement without understanding where you both are at. Poly relationships can be rewarding and fulfilling but they take a lot of balance and intense communication skills. When it was working, when intimacy was easier with my husband (mostly because I was pushing down a lot of feelings) it was good. It took a lot out of me though making sure I was attentive to everyone.

    There are just no easy answers and a lot to consider before you leap in. Just keep writing about it and working through your feelings. We will definitely be here to help you through :slight_smile:.
     
    No1Wants likes this.
  8. HelpLOL

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Cali
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    Hey thanks for well expressed thoughts:slight_smile:
    So that is the question isn't it... bi or gay...I really feel like it's up in the air. We've talked about it. *i asked her if it would be alright to talk about it here and she said yes* How did she phrase it, She can be a place where she enjoys sex with me.Side note, she used to have a pretty high sex drive, still above mine most of the time. So this sounds more bi... but we also talked about what she thinks about while climaxing *that's a weird word...* and it involves females. She wants to be doing to a girl what I'm doing to her. (so more gay?) So yah... That's where we're at. Not really sure what any of it means just yet, but we're still working on it.
    Related note, Sounds like she might have a lunch "date" tomorrow. I haven't met her yet but I've heard good things. She's a bit older, which I find a little funny, my wife is .. a bit superficial sometimes.. heh but I'm actually glad. I'd really prefer someone more mature... young and dumb is fun.. but just causes problems.
     
  9. HelpLOL

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Cali
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    I think I have a little bit of a question but I'm not sure how to phrase it. I was just thinking that if I had to classify my wife's appearance it would lean towards soft butch or very soft butch.. She's attracted to women that are as fem or more fem than she is. Does this give me any more insight on how she feels ? Are there many Bi women that would classify themselves as butch or something like that?
     
  10. baristajedi

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    2,838
    Likes Received:
    828
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Being butch is more about how she feels comfortable in her gender expression, there are butch bi and straight people...so I wouldn't use this to try to understand her sexuality. I'm butch and gay. I feel like there's some kind of connection between those two things for me, but it's not necessarily true for others.
     
    LostInDaydreams likes this.
  11. Lia444

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    285
    Location:
    Oxford
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Totally agree with this. I’m afraid to know how she feels you will need to ask her and keep talking. You sound like you are on the right track and care for her deeply.
     
    baristajedi likes this.
  12. Woodswoman

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2017
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    214
    Location:
    Western NY
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I agree with the last posts as well. There are a bunch and fem people (and everything in between) across the spectrum of sexuality. So yes, I think your wife could be both bi and lean towards butch.
    Personally, I hate these labels more than any other labels out there. Been thinking of starting a new thread about it to see if anyone can relate...
     
  13. Mabel

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    204
    Location:
    New England
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    A few people
    It’s one of the questions, I guess my point was the more I learned and accepted who I was the more I realized that I was not comfortable or happy. I can’t tell you I’m a 100% anything. I just now know I Herero relationship is not fulfilling for me and I was doing a lot of pretending and rationalizing without realizing it.

    It just struck me you saying that she was gay but fully intended to have an open marriage while still being intimate with her. She has to work through how she feels about thes things. There are probably just as many uncertainties for her as well as you. I think you guys are really being awesome talking to each other etc. , you both will find a way to work through all this that fits in time, just try and be open and keep communicating :slight_smile:

    I agree with the others. How you come off in appearance, whether more masculine or feminine really indicates nothing of your sexuality. I keep my hair short cuz it’s easy, ya know?
     
  14. Itstime21

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Wish my straight husband would read these forums, would make things easier. Thank you for your insight on the other side. I’m 44 lesbian trying to come out from an 18 year marriage to a straight man!
     
  15. HelpLOL

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Cali
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    Yah i know, don't judge a book by it's cover :wink: it was more like.. hey did you notice a lot of the books in the women's section have short hair... lol ok maybe not like that. It is interesting tho, gender expression relating to sexuality. Not cause and effect for sure, but it does feel like there is something there. /shrug or not :grin:
     
  16. HelpLOL

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Cali
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    LOL that's kind of the problem, she's not sure how she feels. She's really not an introspective person most of the time. .. I just had a more serious thought, maybe her denial of her sexual orientation is part of the reason she's not introspective. Ugghh.. I'll have to bring that up to her later, maybe in therapy. Anyway.. thanks, I hope we're on the right track too. :slight_smile:
     
  17. baristajedi

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    2,838
    Likes Received:
    828
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I know, it's true a lot of butch women are lesbians :slight_smile:, it's not an unrealistic generalisation, but you know your wife as an individual, she must have her own specific sense of self that makes that look feel right to her...

    For me, there is a link between my butch expression and being gay, it's not like one is inherent in the other, but i feel my gender expression and sexuality complement and overlap eachother a lot. I resisted that idea for much of my life, my gender expression made me more sheepish about being gay and my feelings for women made me water down how butch I was...because....shame. but, well, I am butch and I am gay, and <shrugs shoulders> that's just me :slight_smile:
     
    #17 baristajedi, Dec 8, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
    LostInDaydreams and Woodswoman like this.
  18. HelpLOL

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Cali
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    You know I was a little hesitant to say butch... I wasn't sure if anyone would be offended, I think the key thing is to look at the intent on the usage. Was the intent to degrade or harm? nope. Was the intent to try and convey a group of characteristics in one word? Yep. But I do understand not liking labels..they seem very restrictive. I'm just not sure how to get around them, it feels like as time goes on we're just adding more and more labels to who we are.. trying better to find what subgroup of subgroup of subgroup we belong to lol Any who, I think a thread on Labels would be cool. it's really a mixed bag.
     
    Woodswoman likes this.
  19. HelpLOL

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Cali
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    I do get it, it does feel like very conflicting ideas.. but..... eh... Lifes odd.. why not give it a try.
     
  20. baristajedi

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    2,838
    Likes Received:
    828
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone

    A lot of people don't like labels; and a lot of people don't like those particular ones. I understand the feelings behind the discomfort because it can be limiting and/or degrading.

    But I personally love labels. And it makes me feel really free to feel I can embrace words like butch or dyke. Those words used to be used on me as an insult, but I love being a dyke. And I like reclaiming it, because I have pride in the characteristics that word is meant to insult. I'm butch, I'm boyish, I love women, so yeah, I'm a dyke and I'm butch and proud.

    But I put this out there as my feelings only, I totally understand why some people really don't like those labels.
     
    #20 baristajedi, Dec 8, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
    LostInDaydreams and Woodswoman like this.