General News Antifa coup 4. November

*sees it's a highly oriented 'news' outlet*
*takes a grain of salt the size of the Kilimanjaro*

That sounds like a lot of swayed nonsense to be honest. Highly abrasive propaganda from one side (although it may entirely be from the other, it happens too) creates highly abrasive response from the other. Every part of the extremes that are uncontrollable find an opinion to agree with, and we all descend into chaos. Believing that a movement like antifascists can take over and remove Mr. Tweeter in Chief is absolutely ridiculous (both on those who believe it and the tiny portion of antifas who also believe it too). It's like believing Anonymous will soon govern the entire world and possess the nuclear weapon. (the latter of which, at least, is surely impossible)

But hey, you gotta have those uncontrollable and highly visible 1%, or else, how would we categorize folks and make non-demonstrated blanket statements about entire groups?
(gods I'm liking nihilism even more every day...)

PS: I finished reading and I see all the signs that a piece of opinion is absolutely nonsensical : huge blanket statements, big scary stuff shouted at you, making someone say what they are not saying, and more (cf. Ham Hightail, Chewbacca Defense, and a great proclivity for my favorite fallacy : the Gish Gallop ; and yes, I'm dropping fallacies using the argument by assertion... it's 1AM, I don't have time to do a whole essay on validity VS. truth)

 

I doubt they will do anything, least of all anything consequential. If they do act, they will probably just smash the windows of a Starbucks and call it a “revolution”

 

@Libertino who are these antifa's? From what Ive heard they are lame half-assed terrorists? ( Im not sure if that is the right word, maybe vandals is more correct) Who cant get laid and still live at home. What is their agenda anyway?

 

Antifa is a blanket label for a number of not-necessarily-affiliated groups of far-left activists who tend toward anarchist views and practices. Their name is derived from their claim to oppose fascism, and they believe in going to violent lengths to do so. Recently they have made headlines for participating in anti-Trump rallies and the counter-protesting of white nationalist rallies that devolved into vandalism, street fighting, and other forms of violence. Antifa believe in "no platform", i.e. they seek to deny people they see as racist, white nationalist, or otherwise far-right from speaking in public.

They are extremists, in other words, and variously regarded as terrorists, but "terrorist" being perhaps the most loaded term of the current age, whether they are labeled as such will depend on who you ask. But they alienate people from and enamor them against legitimate leftist causes, they provoke needless violence and ruin peaceful protests, they cause great property destruction, and they stifle political discourse. I have no love for them.

 

Why cant they be arrested if the are such A-holes? They sound like trouble makers to me.

 

I find, personally, particularly interesting that the coverage of antifascist movements solely through the property damage its fringe has committed has led to a complete eclipse of their political agenda (i.e. "We don't want fascists here, and we will fight fascists with all means necessary" ; even though for a few folks the definition of fascist gets quite fuzzy) and the mobilization of public opinion largely against them.
(I'd like to remind you, as a European, that, meanwhile, literal nazis marched in big protests, and one of them actually killed one person, and that should be horrifying to any sane person ; furthermore : one extreme necessarily creates an extreme anti-response too, if you recall your history lessons, that's nothing new)
Ideally, antifas shouldn't exist. But, ideally, we shouldn't have neo-nazi rallies in 2017 with thousands of participants, and most of them not being seen as threats to the state or the general public.

That's not how laws work...
As far as I recall, there are no laws against being a-holes. There are laws against property damage and assault, which are successfully being used here.
I rest my case, too. Polarizing issues like that are almost never interesting to debate, since most people stay locked on senseless positions (and I'm talking both sides here).

 

both "fa" and "antifa" promote violence towards the other guys.its the same. there are no good guys in this world. this illusion where people can choose between left and right wing politics is all smoke and mirrors.

 

Antifa makes the left look terrible. It’s ironic because while they claim to be anti fascist, they’re movement is incredibly fascist as well.

 

Well, their name sort of hints at that: they oppose fascism, white supremacy, and racism. They're not exactly a unified group, and have existed around the world in some form or another for decades.

Antifa reject turning to the police or state, and use events like the Holocaust as an example that fascists, racists, etc. should be fought on all sides, not tolerated or ignored.

I believe they're closer to anarchists. And I don't think they make the left look any more terrible than Klansmen, Neo-Nazis, and their ilk make the right look.

 

I would tend to disagree with this. The Klan and those people don't actually do anything in modern times, they just spout off hatred and talk about their hatred at their meetings. That's all they do though. It's extremely rare for a Klansman or Neo-Nazi to actually use violence against people these days. I would even go as far as saying it's more of a social club than an organization genuinely looking to enforce their beliefs nowadays.

On the other hand, Antifa very visibly attacks people on a weekly basis and has no fear of the consequences. Have you seen that video of an Antifa punching Richard Spencer in the face while he was being interviewed live on TV? That takes some serious lack of caring about the consequences to commit assault on video in front of millions of people.

Nobody really has to worry about a Klansman burning down their house anymore, but people DO have to worry about Antifa beating them up just because they feel like it, particularly concerning white people. There was a story in the news not long ago where a white U.S. Naval Officer was stabbed repeatedly by an Antifa in the parking lot of a grocery store simply because, and I quote, "he had a fascist haircut". Also known as, he was a white guy with a military haircut he is required by law to have for his job.

When people genuinely have to worry about being assaulted by a stranger for a haircut, that makes the left look SO BAD for not crushing Antifa out of existence and continuing to support them at protests.

 

Thats scary, I have white walls which was the same haircut a lot Nazi's had. Its just a good haircut, why isnt anybody stopping these maniacs? Who stabs the troops? is anything still sacred in this country. I may not agree with these wars, but I dont think the military members should be punished for them.

 

I'm surprised in light of recent events how you claim Klansmen and Neo Nazis are ¨non violent¨ when they have killed people in churches and ran over people with cars.

It is probably because you are white that you have no fear of these people but a black person venturing in Europe dare not walk down a street controlled by skinheads or Neo Nazis or they will be killed.

Also, that story about that white Naval officer being assaulted because he has a Nazi haircut has been proved fake. He accidentally cut himself with a knife: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/28/neo-nazi-stabbing-fake-colorado-joshua-witt

 

I guess it depends what you consider a Klansman or Neo-Nazi. The mass attackers the news tries to give that label to oftentimes aren't actually "real" members of the organization, they usually had just gone to a few meetings or hung out with them socially. I was talking about the full blown members who have been part of it for years and genuinely believe in the entire philosophy.

I live in the south of the United States, and there is a huge difference between real ones and the ones that just think they are cool for hanging out with the group. Just like ISIS claims every terrorist works for them, white mass attackers often claim membership in those groups to try to give themselves a support network and fans. Crazy people are just crazy people sometimes. I don't know if it's the same way in Europe though.

I was not aware of this. That's pretty disappointing that he would lie about something like that.

 

A Klansman or Neo-Nazi is someone who believes in the principles and values of what the organization stands for. These people have studied the ideology and are swayed by their beliefs which give rise to the actions that they commit. The young man who murdered all those black people in the church sincerely believed white people are the superior race and that the world would be better off without black people. Hence the white supremacist ideology fueled his actions to kill those black people in that church.

The Neo Nazi who drove his car into the counter protesters also followed the ideology of white supremacy and did what he did in alignment with with the principles of the Klan and Neo Nazis. Klan members and Neo Nazis believe in ethnic cleansing whatever means necessary and they do not rule out violence. They also worship people who kill non whites and they do not speak out against people who have committed violent attacks against minority groups in their name.

The fact that you know of Klansmen and Neo Nazis make my skin crawl. However nice they may seem to you, these people have murdered, hanged and burned thousands of innocent persons over the years and they continue to endorse violence against other ethnic groups to this day.

How would you feel if I told you that I knew members of ISIS and they are actually good people?

 

They aren't really avoidable in this part of the country. Nor do you even know they are one until they choose to tell you usually, sometimes years later. I realize that sounds bad, but I can pretty much guarantee you that 90%+ of them would never actually go through with what used to happen decades ago. For the most part it's just a social club of people needing a self-confidence boost with particularly hateful interests led by a few genuine psychopaths who take advantage of the weakness of the others.

As for the other part, I actually have met a few members and supporters of radical Islamic groups like that and the same thing applies to them. Mostly normal people who are manipulated by a few psychopathic leaders and are too afraid to think for themselves.

I should also mention that I'm considered Jewish and a large chunk of my family were killed in the Holocaust (I'm an Atheist actually but that doesn't matter to these groups) so yes both the Klan/Nazis and Islamic radical people should hate me and want to kill me. They didn't, and in fact they didn't even care very much I was exactly what they claim to want to kill fully knowing about it.

People are people. Membership in a group doesn't always mean they are all responsible for the bad things the group did/does. It's hard to separate the group name from the individual person and that's completely understandable, but when you end up around these type of people it becomes easier to see the differences.

By no means am I excusing the awful things the groups are responsible for, I'm just saying you can't always judge the members by the actions of the group.

 

Depending on how you look they may treat you in a different way than someone who is clearly of an ethnic group they consider inferior. The fact is that a lot of horrible crimes against black people were committed in the south by those same people so to say that they are just ordinary people is to condone what they have done in the past. You don't know what these people have done and whether they are still committing acts of violence against minority groups. You cannot speak for a group who has terrorized an entire ethnic group because it means nothing because you would not have the same experience of someone who has lost family and relatives because of such people

You don't know the acts of violence some of these members are capable of and you don't seem to be the primary target of any of their actions. Those people would never treat a black person the way they would you and for obvious reasons. The history of the south is steeped in racism and so you would not experience the same issues that someone of a darker color would face. It might seem like nothing for you but for others it is traumatic to see people who have murdered and killed one's ancestors roaming the streets freely.

 

I agree that they probably would have treated a black person worse, however since you mentioned their history in the south....

Their peak year was 1925. They had around 5 million card carrying full fledged Klansmen at the time. If you include people who did not qualify for membership but supported their beliefs (women, religions other than protestant etc.) that number jumps to around 11 million Klan supporters.

The population of the entire USA in 1925 was around 115 million people.

That means that in 1925 approximately 13% of the entire United States was directly involved with and supported the Klan.

Can you really honestly say all those millions of people were not just ordinary people swept up in the herd mentality? 13% of the whole country were evil and hateful people?

Just saying...

 

You forgot about the resurgence of the Klu Klux Klan in the 1960s when they killed many civil rights activists. Ironically, in that time many police officers and politicians were also members so the system was beyond corrupt. Furthermore, in 1963 they carried out a bombing of a Baptist Church killing 4 and injuring 22 people and four of those killed were little girls. So the Klan has a long history of violence and they are proud of it.